Bit cooling options

[Dan Hintz]

I've been looking at various cooling methods that would allow me to work with metal on my incoming Stinger. The two main categories are cold air guns and coolant systems. For the time being, cold air guns are too expensive due to their high CFM requirements (the gun itself is pretty cheap, but a compressor meeting the required specs is in the $3.5-4k range).

Flood coolant is out as I don't want to mess with buckets of this stuff or try to keep it contained and away from moisture-sensitive stuff. Misters/atomizers are pretty common, but they are fiddly to set up if you want to prevent leaving a fog in your workshop during extended use (and breathing that stuff in mist form isn't exactly healthy). This leaves micro-dispensing systems.

The two main systems I have come across are the FogBuster and the Trico 1200. The basic FB system is a bit over $300, and the Trico starts at $400+.

Anyone have an opinion on why I shouldn't choose the cheaper FB system over the Trico? Am I missing some nice functionality or quality with the Trico not found on the FB?

[james mcgrew]

i put a mister on the x3 this week, got parts from grainger, less than 50.00 all told works great pics later i will be posting the install

[Scott Shepherd]

$100 for the spray mist system from MSC.

Not sure what you'll do for hold downs, if you're using a vacuum table made from Trupan, you don't want it wet or misted at all.

[Dan Hintz]

Steve,

I called Joey late last week and paid for a few extras on my Stinger before it shipped... the T-slot table was one of those upgrades. I don't know how everything is going to go together until I get the machine, but so far I've ordered the entire batch of precision collets from PreciseBit, the laser centering tool, and I'm eyeing a Penn State DC2000B with a HEPA filter from Wynn to replace my current Horror Freight noisemaker. I have a starter collection of bits from the drawing, and a test project all picked out that mixes metal and wood.

Is the Wesco unit from MSC a mister/atomizer or is it more of a micro-drop system like the FogBuster or Trico units? I was going to pick up a gallon jug of the Accu-lube LB-1100 water-based lubricant to go with it.

[Mike Heidrick]

Do these devices work with Stinger MDF (even though they are sealed MDF) tables?

[Dennis OBrien]

Question for Joey - like Mike asked - are the slots that you cut for the T-Slots sealed well enough to not be affected by misted coolants?

Thanks,

Dennis

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I've not seen the "fog buster" but I've used the trico systems as well as the spray mist systems. I don't recall any real different in the Trico verses Spray Mist, let's keep it simple here, it takes coolant and mixes it with air and puts out a mist. Not rocket science. You can certainly pay for the higher end units but their output won't do anything different, it's still a spray mist of coolant.

I paid $100 for mine and thought that wasn't cheap. I know I wouldn't pay $250 or more for one.

The coolants used in there will not rust machines, so you're safe in using them.

Actually, I got mine from Travers Tool, not MSC because MSC had the products but had crappy photos and it was confusing. Travers had better photos so it was easier to order from them.

[Dan Hintz]

Steve,

I ask because I absolutely do not want a fogger-type mister... the atomized coolant can all-too-easily end up in my lungs, and I don't need to fight with that beast. The FogBuster/Trico systems spit small drops rather than a fine mist... it accomplishes the same thing, but the drops quickly fall to the substrate/bit, not float in the air for long periods of time.

[james mcgrew]

although i got it at grainger

[Dan Hintz]

Travers had the Kool Mist PortaMist kit on sale for $110 (down from $130). It includes a gallon of their #78 coolant and a sample of their #77 coolant. Considering I was going to spend $100 on a gallon of the Accu-lube coolant from MSC, I decided this was a good test.
http://www.travers.com/product.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3Dmist+ coolant%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3Dblock+id+36807+and +class+level3+id+28669&eaprodid=36807-85-500-005
Unfortunately, they seem to have charged me nearly 9% sales tax, so I have an email in to them asking WTH...
http://www.travers.com/images/Items/500x500/85-500-005.jpg

[Keith Outten]

Why wouldn't you get enough cooling just blowing shop air?

If I was going to use a coolant or mist system I would probably consider placing a temporary spoil board made from color core or some other type of plastic on top of my mdf spoilboard......but I don't use a vacumn table.
.

[Scott Shepherd]

Same setup I have Dan.

[Dan Hintz]

Keith,

I'm trying to avoid having my run-of-the-mill Craftsman piston compressor running all day. For one, it's not rated for continuous duty, and two, it's loud as sin.

[Wes Grass]

edit: Just talked to a friend running a Trico micro-drop on a Shopbot. Says running the vegetable oil on an MDF table (with vacuum system) is no problem at all, and that there's only a barely perceptable film of oil on the parts.

You *will* have a cloud of fog from that, as well as a nice puddle of oily water all over the machine. My experience with them is that you'll be constantly fiddling with it, cranking the air up when you turn it on to get the siphon started, and adjusting during the cut to keep it running as little bits of dirt in the fluid plug up the needle valve.

Better, are the higher end units that have a pressurized reservoir. They allow you to turn the air flow way down and still get a flow of coolant.

A micro-drop system is probably a better bet. No water involved, and you can opt for a vegetable based oil if you prefer it. I haven't used one personally so I can't say how they compare in terms of fog, but I've been told they're far superior in that regard. I've also seen the results on the machine (Bridgeport), which carries a very light film of oil that preserves the metal, rather than having the T-slots and vise filled with water. Which is why I bought one of the Tricos for mine. Just haven't installed it yet.

As for straight air on aluminum, you can get away with it on very light cuts ... sometimes. Aluminum is pretty sticky and tends to build up on a cutter unless there's some sort of lubricant interface. Might be running along just fine until you turn your back for a minute ...

[Dan Hintz]

Wes,

I intend to keep my reservoir small and above the combiner... that should prevent the need for a high air flow. Keeping the air flow low should also allow me to "spit" the lubricant like a micro-drop system rather than atomizing it. The whole idea of these systems is to have, at worst, a light film of lubricant on the piece when you're done, not a puddle.

[Joey Jarrard]

I just ordered a vortex chiller to replace one of our tyco misters. I will put a cylinoid on it that is controlled via g code to only run the chiller when the spindle is on.

[Wes Grass]

If the reservoir is above, it will quite likely siphon and drip constantly whether it's on or off. So then you'll be back to turning the adjustment knobs all the time. But I don't know exactly how the valve on that is configured. Could be the fluid side is always open and you adjust the air, or ??????

Of course the idea is to use as little as possible so you don't make a mess. But my experience is that they won't run reliably at really low flow rates, hence you either wind up with everything soaked or you waste your cutting tool.

[Dan Hintz]

Joey,

I did find a "mini" gun that only required 8 CFM, but dropped the air temp 75ºF. It's not as great a chiller as the one you most likely picked up, but the air requirements are significantly less.

[Dan Hintz]

Wes,

Way ahead of you... I plan on having a snap clamp at the bottom of the line that cut cut off the fluid.

Who knows if this will work as planned, but for the price it's worth a shot.

[Bryan Cowan]

FWIW, I cut 28" x 40" sheets of 6061 aluminum all day long without any coolant. I've had bits last months without any problems. I'm also making 4 passes when cutting 0.125" thick sheets.

IMO, for the price of an aluminum cutting bit from Onsrud (63-622 - $28), it's cheap enough to where even if it doesn't last as long as it would with coolant, I don't have to deal with the hassle of a coolant system and the messes involved. I don't have to create a secondary process of cleaning the aluminum after it's been through the machine.

[Dennis OBrien]

Bryan,

Can you tell us the sppeds and feeds you use?

Thanks,

Dennis

[Steve knight]

Myself I don't know if I would cut things that need coolant. the hassle and mess just don't seem worth it. there are bits for about anything out there now.

[Paul Phillips]

Dan,
Congratulations on winning your new machine!
I cut aluminum all day long on one of my machines and I use the Trico MD-1200.
http://www.tricocorp.com/products/product.aspx?c=5&p=31
It’s a bit more expensive than the other suggestions but when it’s properly dialed in I can run my machine for 8hrs strait and not have to refill. I use it with their synthetic lubricant http://www.tricocorp.com/products/product.aspx?c=5&p=60
It goes on very fine, doesn’t make a big mess and is easy to clean up, also I have had some bits last well over 100hr lifespan before they start to dull out, at $30-$40 per bit, that adds up. I used to use a Gerber Saber CNC and they have about a 10 gal. reservoir that you have to fill with a water/coolant mixture that makes a huge mess of things but this is far superior in my opinion.
There seems to be two basic applications, cooling and lubricating depending on the type of material you are cutting. With certain dispensers and fluids doing a combination of both, ie. certain coolants have some lubricating abilities and some lubricants have cooling abilities. This article explains better if you're interested.
http://www.tricocorp.com/pdf-files/micro-dispensing.pdf
Hope this helps,

Paul

[Dan Hintz]

Paul,

I looked at the Trico unit, but I had a hard time justifying the extra price for what seemed at the time to be very little gain. The Kool Mist system came in today, so I'll try it out and see how it works out... if it doesn't solve all of my issues, I'll revisit some of the other options.

Reading the PDF now... :)

[Gene Crain]

Myself I don't know if I would cut things that need coolant. the hassle and mess just don't seem worth it. there are bits for about anything out there now.


Now that is right Steve!

Dan,

You won a 5K plus machine....so spend some $$ on a compressor or....whatever for the shop, just not on the Bride :D

Gene

[Dan Hintz]

You won a 5K plus machine....so spend some $$ on a compressor or....whatever for the shop, just not on the Bride :D
So far, this is what I've picked up for my "free" machine:
1) Upgraded Stinger with T-slot table and PC router ($350)
2) 24" WS LCD from the laser's computer so I can steal its 19" LCD for the Stinger ($200)
3) Kool Mist lubricator ($110)
4) Precision collets from PreciseBits ($150)
5) Laser center finder ($100)
6) Penn State dust collector ($330 - need to order)
7) Wynn HEPA filter for DC ($160 - need to order)
8) More stuff I can't think of off of the top of my head, but it cost me!

So, I've about $1,400 invested so far, and I don't even have the machine yet! :p Oh yes, I'm spending money. At some point, I need to find some time and run some wire to power it all.

[Bryan Cowan]

Bryan,

Can you tell us the sppeds and feeds you use?

Thanks,

Dennis

19000 RPM at 85 IPM.

[Dennis OBrien]

Thanks. I'll be trying that.

[Joey Jarrard]

Ok the Vortex Tube came in and we are going to hook it up to run
our next batch of parts. If all goes well I will start selling there line.
The tube looks like a great piece of work. It is built strong and heavy. Hook up looks to be supper simple. The company we got it from are supper nice and easy to work with.

I will let all know how it goes after some testing.