Tuning a miter box?

[Greg Crawford]

I just got an old miter box with no name on it. It looks like a Millers Falls, but there are some differences. The posts that hold the saw do look identical though. I have a Disston back saw for it that says Langdon on the steel back.

Now, for the rub, so to speak. The saw is a bit loose in the guides, and I don't see any way to tighten that. Is there a reasonable way to tighten the guides against the blade? Are there other boxes that had some sort of adjustment? I have thought about using brass shim stock, but I'm not sure of a way to keep it securely in place. If I squeeze the posts, they won't be snug in their guides, so that seems like it would just move the problem.

My goal is to be able to get the cuts clean enough that I can just take a couple of swipes on a shooting board to take out any saw marks. My hand saw skills are still not up to par, so the guides will play an important role.

Thanks

[David Weaver]

Have you tried using it as-is and then swiping on the chute board or with a block plane a couple of swipes? It might do better than you think. Not trying to be a jerk, just no need to fix it if it works OK.

I doubt mine's that tight, either (also a langdon style box, second from largest size), but it does fine.

[Greg Crawford]

It didn't have some parts, and I just got them. I haven't installed them yet, so no, I haven't tried it yet. There was no way to keep the blade from going into the steel bottom, and I didn't want to do that to the saw.

I do need to do that, though. It just seems pretty loose, but maybe I'm jumping the gun.

BTW, it didn't sound at all like you were being a jerk. Just common sense.

Thanks

[Jim Koepke]

Greg,

I am not sure about your miter set up.

I have an old Craftsman that has some screws that change the way the blade guide holds the blade to make for less slop.

Maybe some pictures of yours would help.

It may also be as David said. There needs to be some freedom of movement and maybe it is "just right" for the saw you have.

jim

[Dave Matson]

Some of the early langdon miter boxes had roller bearings mounted inside a threaded plug at the top of the guides. One can adjust them as they bear up against the saw back.
You will probably always have some saw marks no matter how secure the guides are though. A sharp, well set saw is probably more important. Also consider putting a sacrificial board on the bed. This will act like a zero clearance insert on a table saw and prevent damage to the teeth as well as blowout on the part being cut.

[Gary Herrmann]

How loose in the guides? I have a MF mitre box and my saw moves very freely through the guides. I wouldn't call it loose though. How much wiggle room do you have?

[Greg Crawford]

I did some checking and got some pics. Maybe this will help. Here's the box overall;

I used a feeler guage to get an actual measurement instead of just saying "it's loose". It measured .008 to .010 between the blade and the inside of the guides. The guides that hold the saw have virtually no play inside the hollow posts. There are brass (or at least brass color) discs in the upper portion of the guides, and I think they show OK in the picture. There's no thread that I can see for adjusting these. Should I just press them in against the saw plate? It would still leave the lower portion of the saw loose.

I also have the picture of the saw, showing the Disston logo and the Langdon stamp on the spine.

Any other info about the box would be nice, like a manufacturer or model. Again, I can't find much stamped on it, and there are no holes that would indicate a riveted plate is MIA.

[David Weaver]

.008 or .01 is plenty tight. I doubt mine is that tight, and I've used it fine. I don't think that's going to translate into a .01" error, but even if it did, I don't know if anyone saws by hand as accurately.

[Gary Herrmann]

Greg, I haven't measured the distance between the saw plate and the sides of my guides, but I'd imagine mine is very similar. The pic of your guide looks very much like mine. I think you'll be able to use your mitre box with no problems.

[Dave Matson]

Definitely looks like a post-war Langdon. The model number was usually listed on a metal plaque mounted on the left side of the sliding guide post. I think later on they may have changed it to a sticker. Below is a picture and the model information from the Millers Falls catalog number 49. The 1071 and 1074 were supplied without saws.



Model Saw Size
No. 72C 24 x 4"
No. 73C 26 x 4"
No. 74C 28 x 5"
No. 75C 30 x 5"
No. 1071C For a 4" saw
No. 1074C For a 5" saw

BTW has did anyone notice that www.oldtoolheaven.com has gone offline? I use that page all the time. I hope its temporary.

[Bruce Haugen]

Dave, here (http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=206183) is Randy's explanation of why the oldtoolheaven site is offline.

[harry strasil]

The little flat bar on the side is the depth stop. On the old Stanley 358 you can twist the post in its socket to tighten the saw groove, but this style does not have that option. But like has already been stated, try it first.

[harry strasil]

The 2 screw projections on the side, look to me like the one on the left might be some sort of catch to hold the saw up and the one on the right may be to adjust the gap for the saw width or to compensate for guide width wear. FWIW

If you really need to tighten the gap, you could drill and tap the sides of the guide and make 2 brass set screws to crowd the saw over to one side to compensate. Its an old Machinists trick from long ago used to tighten the quill in an old style camel back drill press.

[Dave Matson]

Thank you for the explanation Bruce! I did actually see the ebook Randy mentions on ebay a few days ago and thought it was a bit fishy. It appears it has been delisted now. It basically looked like screenshots from old tool heaven of the drills with check boxes next to them so that 'collectors' could mark that they had the drill. I sure hope this gets resolved. I definitely would pay for a book from randy if/when it is released.

[Bruce Haugen]

Dave, it sounds like a book is likely forthcoming, but it's slow going. Copy editing isn't all that much fun, kinda like scraping dried glue:D

[Tony Zaffuto]

Harry is right about the "snaps" on the side (used to hold the blade up). The box is a run of the mill MF Langdon, and used bronze guides both under and on top of the spine (back of saw). You might try tapping the bronze projections on top of the guides EVER SO SLIGHTLY to take up slop on how the back is held, but I don't think that is really needed. Just used the saw and use a shooting board. Miter saws were not a cabinetmaker's tool, but rather a finish carpenter. They would have been used with a block plane or shooting board to clean up the "fuzz" from the cut and to assist with fitting the joint.

As far as the clearance you referenced: when looking at the guide, notice at the bottom there is more running clearance for the set of the saw, than up higher for the saw plate. I doubt if your miter box wore to the clearance you have, but was supplied this way.

I have about 16 to 20 miter boxes hanging on the wall of my shop, cause they look neat and are dirt cheap - $20 or so for a decent box with saw!