Help me spend $150

[Chris Griggs]

Okay folks, I know how we all love give each other advice on what to buy next so here's the situation. My fiance just gave me a gift card for $150 to spend on a hand tool of my choice. The core hand tools that I currently own and use are as follows: A Baily style No.4, a Bedrock style No. 6, an LN dovetail saw, an LN crosscut tenon saw, a Ryoba saw and my set of chisels.

So the truth is I've already more or less decided that I can no longer do without a Low Angle Block Plane. At this point I'm 90% certain that I will be getting the LV LABP. My main reason for choosing this one is all the cool accessories. I do however have one question/concern. While I know this is very individual, can anyone out there comment on how the LV LABP feels for one-handed use? I'm a pretty big guy with size L mits, but have always wondered if at the end of the day the LV LABP is really a two-handed plane.

Of course, I could get the Apron plane and then still have money left over for the small router plane. Or I could just buy the large router plane instead. Or I could buy the medium shoulder plane. Or I could put the money towards a low angle Jack, Or maybe towards an LN No 9 miter plane, Or...

So many tools, so little cash.

Any and all suggestions of what I should put the $150 towards are welcome!

[Rick Erickson]

I sold mine in favor of the LN. It was just too large for my hand. I had the accessories for it as well and don't miss them.

[Matt Benton]

Large router plane, no question...

[Dan Karachio]

It is a tough choice on large router planes - LN or LV. Even Chris Schwartz can't decide and tells you he has both. I bought the LV and have used it quite a bit. Very useful for many things. Still, I say get the LN low angle adjustable mouth block. That you will never regret! Enjoy whatever you decide on!

[Rick Markham]

It is a tough choice on large router planes - LN or LV. Even Chris Schwartz can't decide and tells you he has both. I bought the LV and have used it quite a bit. Very useful for many things. Still, I say get the LN low angle adjustable mouth block. That you will never regret! Enjoy whatever you decide on!

I love my LN 60 1/2! Its a great plane. I second the "tough choice on large router planes" I've been wanting one for quite awhile but can't make up my mind. The LV has the fence available for it, but the LN has the adapter to use the small router plane blades. Maybe Chris Schwartz has the right idea! The small router plane looks like a nifty little tool too.

[Roger Benton]

some of you guys may scoff at this, and some others will absolutely scoff at this, but my $35 stanley 60-1/2, bought new three years ago, is a great little plane.

took some work to make it work, but i love it.

if it somehow went missing and i had $150 to spend, I'd kick in the extra $30 or whatever and do the stanley block and a large router from LN or LV.

Bright side is, no matter what you do you can't lose. how often is that the case?

[Rick Markham]

some of you guys may scoff at this, and some others will absolutely scoff at this, but my $35 stanley 60-1/2, bought new three years ago, is a great little plane.

took some work to make it work, but i love it.

if it somehow went missing and i had $150 to spend, I'd kick in the extra $30 or whatever and do the stanley block and a large router from LN or LV.

Bright side is, no matter what you do you can't lose. how often is that the case?

I'd never scoff at that! I love my Stanley no.3 I fettled, it's one of my favorite planes!

[Phillip Ngan]

I have the LV DX60 block plane and can say that it is not too big for one handed use in my medium sized hands. The plane is beautiful. I liked my Stanley LA block plane, but after using the LV, the Stanley is now being passed onto my kids for "daddy can I do the edges" activities in the shop.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

What sort of stuff do you envision making? I find my router plane to be far, far more useful than my block planes (although I am probably kind of strange that way, I'll readily admit), particularly for casework; dados and the like are much easier with one, as are rabbets and in a pinch one can serve as a plow (although the real thing is much easier to use for that).

[Steve Dallas]

Okay folks, I know how we all love give each other advice on what to buy next so here's the situation. My fiance just gave me a gift card for $150 to spend on a hand tool of my choice. The core hand tools that I currently own and use are as follows: A Baily style No.4, a Bedrock style No. 6, an LN dovetail saw, an LN crosscut tenon saw, a Ryoba saw and my set of chisels.

So the truth is I've already more or less decided that I can no longer do without a Low Angle Block Plane. At this point I'm 90% certain that I will be getting the LV LABP. My main reason for choosing this one is all the cool accessories. I do however have one question/concern. While I know this is very individual, can anyone out there comment on how the LV LABP feels for one-handed use? I'm a pretty big guy with size L mits, but have always wondered if at the end of the day the LV LABP is really a two-handed plane.

Of course, I could get the Apron plane and then still have money left over for the small router plane. Or I could just buy the large router plane instead. Or I could buy the medium shoulder plane. Or I could put the money towards a low angle Jack, Or maybe towards an LN No 9 miter plane, Or...

So many tools, so little cash.

Any and all suggestions of what I should put the $150 towards are welcome!

Can't do without a low-angle block plane? You're joking, right?

Spend the $150 on some wood and build something.

[Chris Griggs]

Can't do without a low-angle block plane? You're joking, right?

Spend the $150 on some wood and build something.

Yes, I can and have been managing without a LABP. I actually use my No. 4 for most block plane tasks without much trouble. However, I often find myself wanting something I can use comfortably in one hand. Lately I've been doing a number of boxes and am currently working on a very small cabinet, and more and more have been wishing for a block plane. That said, as much as folks love their adjustable mouths, I think for most tasks I'd be fine with a 102 or LV apron plane, so am considering those as well.

If I were to get the Large Router Plane I would definitely go with the LV. I like the fence and the closed throat. I've actually never used a router plane but can see it being one of the tools that wolud open up a whole new world of hand tool techniques for me. Will continue to ponder. More comments are welcome.

[Chris Griggs]

Maybe I should get the Large Router Plane and then just also fly the Apron Plane in under the radar. She won't notice $81 right?

[David Weaver]

You'll probably have a lot of use for a router plane at some point. Before I spent the money on the LN or LV, I'd see if I could try them out somewhere, because they're different.

Other option for them is to buy an old stanley and get the irons from LV - they fit the stanley 71 fine.

If you have no block plane to this point, that's what I'd get. I wouldn't worry about the fixtures, just save the rest of the money (if there's some left over) for shop consumables or wood.

[Chris Griggs]

David. You always leave really good advice. If I got the Apron/102 I would have plenty of other "little things" that the left over money could go towards.

Regarding trying stuff. I have yet to find a store or a person down here in New Orleans that has LN or LV stuff. However, I will say that I spoke with Angie over at LN a couple weeks ago and she informed me that a hand tool event is tentatively scheduled to come here in late October. I'm saving the big bucks for that.

[Chris Griggs]

What sort of stuff do you envision making? I find my router plane to be far, far more useful than my block planes (although I am probably kind of strange that way, I'll readily admit), particularly for casework; dados and the like are much easier with one, as are rabbets and in a pinch one can serve as a plow (although the real thing is much easier to use for that).

How do you use a router plane for rabbets? I'm assuming you cut a kerf with a back saw, break up the waste with chisels , and the rout it out. Is this correct?

[Zach England]

I have several premium block planes, including both Veritas planes you mention and a few Lie-Nielsen block planes, but I just happened to buy an older Stanley 60 1/2 block plane and I now feel that the premium ones might be a bit overrated. The Stanley has tight adjustments and excellent machining. It could probably benefit from an aftermarket blade, but so far I have no complaints about the original. To be fair, I have not tried it on any very hard or highly figured woods. Also, I am sure there are plenty of mediocre Stanley block planes. I happened to buy a good one.

However, the Veritas block (the bigger one) has a couple of distinct advantages. The first is the availability of different blades. I love the toothed blade. The second, in my opinion, is the set screws that control the lateral drift of the blade. This allows you to take the blade out and put it back in with minimal fiddling. This plane is larger and heavier than any of my other block planes, which causes me to use it less, but might be preferred by others.

I also like the apron plane. I love how small it is.

If I were looking for a block plane and had limited money to spend I'd get Stanley, but I'd want to make sure I got a good one.

[David Weaver]

I think that's right, too. For most work, I'd say the premium planes are 10% better than a vintage stanley - they need sharpened a little less. The difference is the adjustments are a lot tighter on the premium planes, and at least with the LN, no matter what way you bump it or put your fingers on it, you don't end up knocking the lever cap off the plane.

An old 18, 60 1/2 or 9 1/2 is a fine plane to use.

The 90% talk is assuming you can take a block plane that's seen some neglect and work out any problems it might have.

Stay away from the newer stanley or off-brand import block planes, they are very coarsely made.

That said, I'd still rather use the LN 60 1/2 than any old plane, it's just nicer to use, and it's guaranteed to be, and in the world of premium planes, the "plain" block planes aren't really that expensive.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for all the comments folks.

Yes, I can feddle a plane pretty well. I got into planes about a year ago when I bought a rusted out Type 19 No.4. After a year of tweaking and a Hock blade it works great and my confidence in tuning a plane in pretty high. I'm not opposed to tuning up an old block, but by the time you replace the blade, which I would probably do, the savings isn't that great. I would love to find an old knuckle joint and tune that up, as I've heard great things about them.

At this point I'm leaning away from the LV LABP. The accessories would be nice, but my main reason for "needing" a block plane is one handed use and given that I've read MANY posts on this forum stating that it was a bit large, I'm not sure I would buy without trying.

Right now I'm leaning towards the router plane, and then just forking out the extra dough for either an olddy block or an apron/102. Still considering the LN 60 1/2 though. I've read every old thread on plane purchasing advice that I can find, and I know I can't go wrong no matter what I decide. Hmmmmmmm, still thinking. Its a good problem to have :)

[Bill Griggs]

Chris,

Nice to see another Griggs posting.

I would suggest you save some money and combine it with the gift card to buy both planes.

Bill

[David Weaver]

The LV plane (which I haven't used) is the same cutting width as a #18, with thicker castings.

I don't have gorilla hands, but a power tool fanatic buddy of mine does (just huge), and he's pleased with the LN block plane.

I have smaller hands, about 8 1/2 inches from thumb to pinkie, and i prefer the narrower LN plane over the #18, but it's not in a way that would actually impact any work that I'm doing.

I think people would be a lot happier with their block planes if they shut off taking in any information on block planes after they got their planes. I don't think I would've ever even considered a #18s comfort, it's certainly not uncomfortable to use.

I have two of them (the #18s). One is a bit beat up and shopworn, but functionally fine, but it could satisfy your urge for a knuckle joint plane, and you won't have to tune it. PM me your address and you can have it. Only request would be extending the courtesy to another woodworker sometime. It may be enough to allow you to spend your money on a router plane instead, and if you're going to be hand cutting tenons and dados, you'll find plenty of use for one, regardless of the brand.

[Chris Griggs]

Just sent you a PM David. Thank you for the very kind offer.

Bill, gotta love that there is another Griggs on the forum. I'm definitely following your line of thinking right now. With Davids offer I may likely end up with both a block plane and router plane. I love this forum!

[Prashun Patel]

I'm a fan of the LN 102 or the LV Apron plane (I have this one). They don't have an adjustable mouth but I find the small size more appropriate for the ways I use a block plane. If you want a 60 1/2, then I'd get the LN.

FWIW, I wouldn't let the 'cool accessories' factor into your decision. I know at least 2 people who've bought them and then decided to sell them. I've tried the LVLABP at a couple shows, and I feel like it wants to be a #2.

Also, I too can and have fettled a block plane or two in my day. Unless yr lucky, many used planes require a new blade to operate optimally (in my experience). So, add $30-40 for that to your ebay price. A new LN or LV will have a blade reasonably close to perfect.

Plus, there's just something nice about a new, LN or Veritas block plane. They're just a pleasure to hold, look at, and use. Since this is a lifetime purchase I'd splurge and get a new one.

Last, if you have buyer's remorse, know that you can always sell a reasonable condition LN for very close to its purchase price.

Oh yeah, have you looked at the LN rabbeting block plane?

[Chris Griggs]

Yes, I have looked at the Rabbeting block and at one point had more or less decided to buy it. What changed my mind is that I want to be able to hone small camber into the blade. I know conventionally block plane blades are kept square, but I want to be able to flush up my joints without plane tracks.

David is sending me his spare No. 18 which he says is not pretty, but functionally sound. I am VERY grateful for this and I think it will be plenty useful.

May still get premium block soon, but currently am debating about how much I need/want a router plane. I know a router plane will get use cleaning/and cutting dados, truing tenons, cleaning hinge mortises. Also, it would let me learn to tackle sliding dovetails which would be cool. I may also use it to cut drawer grooves until I get a proper plow (although I can use the tailed router for that). I also wonder if I could use the router plane for cleaning the bottom corners of the pins half-blind dovetails.

Anyone out there care to comment on their most common uses of their router planes. How badly do I "need" one:)?

[Stephen Cherry]

I have the Lie Nielson rabbet block plane. It's a little heavy, but it's good for lots of things. If I could only have one block plane, this would be it.

[Steve Dallas]

Yes, I can and have been managing without a LABP. I actually use my No. 4 for most block plane tasks without much trouble. However, I often find myself wanting something I can use comfortably in one hand. Lately I've been doing a number of boxes and am currently working on a very small cabinet, and more and more have been wishing for a block plane. That said, as much as folks love their adjustable mouths, I think for most tasks I'd be fine with a 102 or LV apron plane, so am considering those as well.

If I were to get the Large Router Plane I would definitely go with the LV. I like the fence and the closed throat. I've actually never used a router plane but can see it being one of the tools that wolud open up a whole new world of hand tool techniques for me. Will continue to ponder. More comments are welcome.

If you intend to get into hand wrought joinery, you need a router plane way, way, before you need a low angle block plane.

[Zach England]

Yes, I have looked at the Rabbeting block and at one point had more or less decided to buy it. What changed my mind is that I want to be able to hone small camber into the blade. I know conventionally block plane blades are kept square, but I want to be able to flush up my joints without plane tracks.

David is sending me his spare No. 18 which he says is not pretty, but functionally sound. I am VERY grateful for this and I think it will be plenty useful.

May still get premium block soon, but currently am debating about how much I need/want a router plane. I know a router plane will get use cleaning/and cutting dados, truing tenons, cleaning hinge mortises. Also, it would let me learn to tackle sliding dovetails which would be cool. I may also use it to cut drawer grooves until I get a proper plow (although I can use the tailed router for that). I also wonder if I could use the router plane for cleaning the bottom corners of the pins half-blind dovetails.

Anyone out there care to comment on their most common uses of their router planes. How badly do I "need" one:)?

IMO, rabbet block is mostly a poor substitute for a shoulder plane and skew block planes. With a fence that could go on either side it would be more useful.

[Chris Griggs]

Just ordered the LV Router Plane with fence attachment. Thank you everybody for your input. And thank you David for sending me your spare No. 18 block. It will be put to good use!

[Jim Koepke]

Chris,

You mentioned reading all the old threads on buying block planes. The one I started that is linked in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs may not have shown up since it is about fettling a low angle block.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1246005#post1246005

Roger Benton mentioned a $30 Stanley. I have one that is likely very much the same and it is a much better plane that what was made by Stanley during the "bad" years.

I have since bought an LN LABP. It is amazing. It has a much more solid feel and does not hesitate or chatter in a cut.

Zach England mentioned buying an older Stanley 60-1/2. I kept getting out bid on the older ones that I wanted to buy. I just didn't want to go much over $30 or $40. Finally it was decided to just buy a new LN after trying them at a Tool Event.

One difference in the Stanley after about 1950 is the bedding area near the mouth. I think this does make a substantial difference in the operation and feel of the plane in use. The casting quality also suffered for a few decades.

With all that said, what you purchase is going to have to finally be decided on by you and the way you work.

I find my LABPs to be indispensable. My router plane does not see a lot of work. That is just the way my work is done. It does not mean one is a more correct way of working than the other.

My LABPs are used a lot to take a fine shaving from end grain, round corners, help fit a joint and a lot of other tasks. For small pieces on a shooting board they are great.

jim

[Chris Griggs]

Hopefully the router plane will find a lot of use in my shop. It will certainly help me to do things by hand that I haven't yet been able to do with out my tailed router. And if nothing else it will be valuable for precise fitting/trimming. Jim, I know your right about block planes being very useful. I'll probably still order a premium one in the future, but right now I'm quite excited about the No 18 knuckle joint that David W in sending me.

[Steve Dallas]

Just ordered the LV Router Plane with fence attachment. Thank you everybody for your input. And thank you David for sending me your spare No. 18 block. It will be put to good use!

Smart move. I have a POS Stanley (UK) and I'm on the second set of cutters. If I bought a new one it would be the LV I think. They hit a home run with that plane.

[Archie England]

Have you considered awls, marking knives, combination squares, etc.?

Old style marking gauges, especially with cutters, are tremendous for setting up dovetail cutting lines, along with establishing saw to lines for tenons. A bird cage awl (see Czech tools) is a great investment, as is just the awl. Along that line, I also like to use a spring loaded punch for marking wood and metal.

Do get a good, dedicated marking knife (Czech Tools, Blue Spruce, LV, etc.), too. I use mine all the time. Of course, I made my first two from jigsaw blades. I'll soon buy one of these better ones (mine have too much flex).

Just some other, smaller priced suggestions,

Arch

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Arch,

I have a good Pfeil marking knife, a Veritas marking gauge, and a couple of good squares. I agree, very important tools; I use all of the above all the time. Wouldn't be able to do dovetails without this stuff.


Have you considered awls, marking knives, combination squares, etc.?

Old style marking gauges, especially with cutters, are tremendous for setting up dovetail cutting lines, along with establishing saw to lines for tenons. A bird cage awl (see Czech tools) is a great investment, as is just the awl. Along that line, I also like to use a spring loaded punch for marking wood and metal.

Do get a good, dedicated marking knife (Czech Tools, Blue Spruce, LV, etc.), too. I use mine all the time. Of course, I made my first two from jigsaw blades. I'll soon buy one of these better ones (mine have too much flex).

Just some other, smaller priced suggestions,

Arch

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

Yup. Sometimes you can use the knife edge from a marking gauge (and reapplying it periodically) to avoid the kerf issue. Adam Cherubini did a bit on that at WIA last year that included some startlingly aggressive chisel work; I believe it is at http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2010/01/11/woodworking-in-america-at-valley-forge-the-all-powerful-joinery-planes-with-adam-cherubini/ at around the 23:10 mark. Adam uses a plow as a marking gauge (something else you can do with the LV router plane, since it has the fence, although it's not quite as useful as the real thing) but a marking gauge will do just as well.

[Eric Brown]

You might want to try making your own router plane (see JR Strasil posts) but I would also recommend a good quality LABP. The Stanley 60 1/2 can work well if tuned up. If you look at old ones look closely for cracks at the back of the mouth. I've never heard of either LV or LN version cracking but both companies would fix it for free if it happened.

One option I would strongly consider is the new LV skewed block plane. It's like the Stanley #140 but really beefed up. (No side plate to lose!)

Books are tools too.

Enjoy.

Eric

[Chris Griggs]

Smart move. I have a POS Stanley (UK) and I'm on the second set of cutters. If I bought a new one it would be the LV I think. They hit a home run with that plane.

Once I get it and learn how to use it I'll let you know what I think. First, task will be to plow a groove for the back panel of the small cabinet I'm working on. Not the ideal task for this plane I know, but it will be interesting to see how difficult or easily it accomplishes it. I read Derek Cohen's review this plane and it was very informative about how to use the plane for a variety of tasks. In his review he used it to plow a stopped groove and it seemed to function quite well at this task. Of course, if I'm really feeling confident I'll try hanging the shelf in the cabinet with a sliding dovetail, but given that I don't have a dovetail plane or dedicated rabbet plane I'll probably hold off on this task. I'm not sure how easily the sliding tail can be cut without one of the tools, and I'm not very confident in my ability to do it just with chisels and a back saw. Still I'll definitely try my hand at a sliding DT on some scrap to see how it goes.

[Jim Koepke]

Hopefully the router plane will find a lot of use in my shop. It will certainly help me to do things by hand that I haven't yet been able to do with out my tailed router. And if nothing else it will be valuable for precise fitting/trimming. Jim, I know your right about block planes being very useful. I'll probably still order a premium one in the future, but right now I'm quite excited about the No 18 knuckle joint that David W in sending me.

The #18 is a good user plane. I sold mine a few months ago. It is a standard angled block plane, 45°. If you enjoy using the #18 you will really love a low angle block plane. For my case, small bench planes seem more comfortable and get more use than standard angle block planes.

Kind of interesting that LV now has a block plane to bench plane adaptation. Where in my case it is kind of a bench plane to block plane adaptation.

If you can, try to handle and use some of the block planes before you commit to buy. In my accumulation are a #65 and a #65-1/2. They are basically the same plane except one has a knuckle cap and one has a lever cap. I like the feel of the lever cap better in my hand. One thing I like about the knuckle cap is it is easier when I want to change the cutting depth. The #60-1/2 is a smaller plane and is sometimes more convenient for its size.

No matter how well or poorly a tool works for me does not mean you will have the same results.

Even if you do buy them all it is hard to always pick one over the other.

jim

[Deane Allinson]

60 1/2 is my go to for most everything. It even sharpens pencils. End grains mostly but it eases edges, chamfers, etc. I picked up an English Stanley up in the early 80's because it was recomended for solid surface material. I haven't worked with solid surface in years but it is still my cheapest and most used plane. It was very well made. Get a cheaper low angle and spend the saved money on a high end tool of you choice.
Deane