replacement for Rennisance wax for TS top?

[Will Blick]

I have been the Rennisance wax on my Cast Iron tops, it works great, but the odor gives me a whopper of a headache.... is there an alternative past wax anyone can suggest that does not have such heavy amounts of petroleum based thinners? I use a mask, but it smells for so long as the thinner dries, the entire shop smells for 24 hrs.... tired of battling this.

I was thinking of some "spray on" car waxes....ones without silicone? TYIA

[Cliff Holmes]

I tried Renaissance, but also didn't care for the odor and how it left the cast iron looking. After trying bunches of stuff, right now I'm at a toss-up between TopSaver and Top-Cote. Both are really easy to apply.

[Bill Huber]

I just use Johnson's Paste wax and have had no rust.

I does have an odor to it but its not very strong.

[Cliff Holmes]

I does have an odor to it but its not very strong.

I have to respectfully disagree on that one. I used to use JPW, but after a while the odor started making me nauseous.

It's also a real pain to buff out.

p.s. I think you meant "It" has a strong odor :)

[george wilson]

The only ODORLESS wax I can think of is to rub a block of paraffin on it to make the wood slide easier. Is your aim to have 100% coverage,or just to lubricate the wood?

Actually,I recall GODDARD'S furniture wax. Years ago the conservators in Williamsburg used it,and I am pretty sure it had a pleasant odor,though I may be not recalling properly.

I tell you,Minwax stain can give me either a sharp stomach ache,or headache.

[Neil Brooks]

p.s. I think you meant "it" has a strong odor :)

rotfl !!!!

:d

[Andrew Nemeth]

[QUOTE=Will Blick;1467127]
I was thinking of some "spray on" car waxes....ones without silicone? TYIA[/

IIRC someone had issues with rusting CI on here recently and the issue of automotive waxes and spray waxes came up. I believe someone stated that some automotive waxes contain some moisture that may actually cause rust on bare CI.

I use minwax paste wax and do not personally find it offensive and I don't recall ever being able to smell it 24hours after application. It's funny how we all perceive smells differently. I am usually pretty sensitive to solvent fumes, they give me pretty bad headaches as well.

[glenn bradley]

+1 on JPW.

[Will Blick]

Cliff, I think I have some Top coat, I will try it....

BTW, I once tried Boshield T9, surface was not slick enough vs. the Solvent waxes....

http://www.boeshield.com/


George my goal is to prevent rust on the my shiny tops... but also keep the surface slick..... Parafin would not spread on easy.... I want something that can be put on a reg. basis. I searched for Goddard, and came up with this...looks like a good candidate, maybe the lemon oil keeps the wax in paste form...

http://www.kilianhardware.com/godcabmakwax.html

I just ordered it....



Then, this one...


http://www.westernwooddoctor.com/images/img_orange_oil.jpg


Here is the info on it...

Howard's Orange Oil

Howard's Orange Oil Cleaner and Furniture Polish is a moisturizing polish that works great on any type of wood or finish. It uses the cleaning power of real orange oil to break down dirt and grime build-up, while enhancing the depth, luster, and natural beauty of the wood grain. It doesn't contain silicone or wax so it won't build up on the wood finish.
Howard's Orange Oil Cleaner and Furniture Polish is a natural cleaner that works great on antiques, kitchen tables, end tables, coffee tables, countertops, cabinets, bathrooms, etc. You can also use it to remove the gummy residue left from price tags, tape, etc.. It smells delicious! (like a freshly peeled orange).
<LI class=list-item>Cleans and shines
<LI class=list-item>Won't build-up
<LI class=list-item>Finish friendly
<LI class=list-item>16 oz. size has a convenient trigger sprayer
<LI class=list-item>Available in large sizes
Smells like fresh oranges!

Seems like this is worth a try? It's cheap too.... no wax, but maybe the orange oil will stay on long enough to work?


From the best I can tell, the minwax paste has solvents in it...

Glad I am not the only one who suffers... I often put-off waxing my tops cause of the odor, so I am on a mission to find something that works well that I can apply often.... I hate getting solvent headaches....I marvel some people can sniff this stuff and never suffer any consequences...

Keep the suggestions coming...

[Will Blick]

A great read on paste waxes....

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/pastewax.htm

It appears most all the modern paste waxes use toulene or paint thinner to keep them in paste form.... both give me terrible headaches...

Lemon and orange oils seem to be the only alternatives.... should be interesting.

After googlin around, you can make your own, assuming one finds a thinner they can tolerate the smell of.... I know thin-x makes an odor free thinner, but not sure if it will still give me a headache.

BTW, when I say it smells for 24hrs, it seems there is always a rag or some overflow somewhere, which keeps the odor around....often minimal, but its time to avoid it completely..

[Russ Hauser]

I've always used Minwax and it's worked for me in a damp basement in northern Ohio, and down here in the Florida humidity in my garage. I haven't noticed any objectionable odor, but that's just me.

Russ

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I use Trewax ...I think i picked it up at Woodcraft. Has very little odor (IMHO). I know people who swear by Butcher's brand too.

[Carpenter Mark]

I use Butchers White Diamond paste wax. It does have an odor somewhat like turpentine but not really strong and it dissapates quickly. The wax itself is really slick and lasts quite a while.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Renaissance wax is a rip off. There's no way one can convince me that museum surators want to slather mineral spirits all over the things they are trying to protect.
http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/jaic/articles/jaic35-01-001.html

There is not one reason to prefer it over any cheap paste wax.

[george wilson]

Cliff,Call the Department of Collections,who I associated with for 39 years. My toolmaker's shop adjoined theirs. 1-757-229-1000. Ask for collections. They can answer your questions directly. Otherwise stop being an
uninformed judge. You weren't there.

I read the article you refer to. It is old news in the conservation World. Williamsburg has been using Incralac on metal objects for MANY,MANY years,not this wax. You need to get better informed before you go dismissing the wax for any and all uses. When they use micro crystalline wax,this is the one they use,but they don't use the same products indiscriminately on EVERYTHING. That would be silly. Refined mineral spirits(Goddard's solvent AKA dry cleaning fluid) is appropriate for use on various things. The conservation arts are complicated and varied,though,and I don't feel like going into a treatise right now. Call them,and ask yourself.

I haven't had a problem using it on my saw for the past 30 years. My saw isn't an ancient African relic,though,is it?

Will,the Goddard's wax shown isn't the same stuff at all. I certainly wouldn't put citrus stuff on iron I wanted to not rust.

[Howard Acheson]

Most "Furniture Polishes" (as opposed to furniture paste waxes) are based on mineral oil with a small amount of odorant and a petroleum solvent/thinner like mineral spirits or naphtha. The Howard's is such a product--it's almost all mineral oil. These types of products never dry and create their "polished" look because they remain liquid on the surface until they collect enough dust to begin to look cloudy. Many contain silicone which presents problems if you ever want to refinish the item.

I don't think any of those types of products would make a good treatment for a cast iron table saw top. In general, these products have little or no resistance to water or water vapor.

As already said, you need to be careful with auto "polishes" or "waxes". Most contain silicone and most contain water to make them easier to apply and buff out. Silicone and water are both substances that should be avoided on a saw table top.

Finally, tests performed by Wood Magazine and Fine Woodworking Magazine showed Boeshield T9 to be the most effective treatment for cast iron table saw tops. Many users find the first applying and buffing out the Boeshield T9 followed by the application of a furniture paste wax like Johnson Wax makes for a durable and slippery surface.

[Don Jarvie]

I've had good luck with Johnsons paste wax and I live 1/4 mile from the ocean. I don't find the odor that bad at all.

How bout the Minwax paste wax brand?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Otherwise stop being an
uninformed judge. You weren't there.

Pointless name calling is not much of an argument.

I bought a can of that renaissance garbage. It's pure garbage. Doesn't work one iota better than cheap paste wax.
Micro crystalline wax has it's uses such as in cosmetics and smear type grease pencils but in that claimed application it's junk.

[Will Blick]

Thanks Howie, as usual, great response...you sort of killed my hopes of finding a non solvent based paste wax.... I see your point about the oil based solvents, the oil will remain tacky providing a non slick surface, not good for TS top

The Boshield T9 I found effective.....but it wore so quickly, ....then you put thicker coat on, and it is very tacky, not slick, hence why people probably use it as a base coat, then wax over it. makes sense...but all the waxes seem to be petro solvent based, so thats no help to me.

I checked Butchers Diamond, its also solvent based. I will get a can of JPW just to try it, but it also is solvent based.

My guess is, some people have very little sensitivity to the smell of petro solvents, while others have overwhelming sensory to these odors. I have been around people who use a solvent based product and they claim they can barely smell it, while I am overwhelmed by it.... argggggg.... of course, I use masks, which help a lot, but for something that requires constant treatment like tops, I was hoping to find something not offensive.....

Most car waxes have some water in them, not good either....of course, the silicon ones are sure no go.... as a previous poster mentioned, this was discussed in a previous post, no good auto solutions surfaced.

I also have a some citrus based solvents, both lime and soy.....I will experiment with them, to see if they give me a smashing headache (R&D I never look forward to).... if these pass the test, I might be forced into making my own paste wax... not so bad....

I only have this rusting problem in the summer, when my swamp cooler keeps humidity in the 50 - 55% range, vs normally in the 15 - 20% range the rest of the year, so I would think many of those living in high humidity areas battle this year round. If the solvents don't bother ya, it really is a non issue... oh well...

[george wilson]

It is your option to be just as wrong as you wish,Cliff.:)

I did give an "argument": you shouldn't assume that because I've mentioned it used by Williamsburg,that they used it on everything. But,you ignore that because your emotions are aroused. When your emotions get involved,you stop thinking,or accepting information. I even gave you the phone number to call,so you could tell one of the very best conservation departments in the World what a bunch of fools they are.

[Ryan Baker]

Renaissance wax absoultely IS vastly superior to cheap paste waxes for certain jobs, such as wood objects that will be handled, because it doesn't show water spots and fingerprints that happen with other waxes.

But for the cast iron, Johnson's paste wax is great. It doesn't have a very strong odor (IMO) to start with, and it should dissipate pretty quickly. But if you are really sensitive to the odor, I don't have a lot of ideas since almost everything else is worse. Maybe go for some good ventilation until the fumes clear?

[Jim Rimmer]

I use Minwax paste wax and live in tropical Houston just two miles from Galveston Bay and it works well for me.

Since I don't have a DC yet I also have a light coat of sawdust on everything that probably absorbs some moisture. :D

[Jim Andrew]

My experience with wax has been wanting. Has anyone just applied a coat of finish to their machine tops?

[Will Blick]

Jim, I wondered the same thing....seems like it would work, its slippery, repels moisture, is made to resist handling, etc...

something like shellac? Or were you thinking poly? I hope Howard chimes in on this one...

[Andrew Nemeth]

IMHO it would be WAY more work in the long run to finish your CI with something. First, you WILL scratch it and then have to coat the scratches with something to prevent rusting. Second, if you apply a topcoat you will have to strip it off eventually before recoating to prevent buildup. Third, with all the trouble people go through to measure the flatness of their tables in 0.001", anything added to the CI will likely not be consistent enough to maintain these tolerances. If it was as easy as topcoating with some shellac or poly, manufacturers would be shipping "rust proof" saws and charging us twice the price.

-Andrew

[Rich Engelhardt]

My experience with wax has been wanting. Has anyone just applied a coat of finish to their machine tops?

Anything (film finish) that's going to be hard and tough enough to work, is going to make the flat CI surface all catty-whampass...

Plus - the cost could be astronomical.
Plus - plus - it's probably not going to do anything but make it worse.

To "do it right":
- White metal blast the surface.
- Prep with acid wash
- Prime with acid wash primer
- Prime with appropriate two component epoxy pimer.
- Top coat with two component epoxy.

My rough "guesstimate" of the cost involved would be about $1200.00/$1500.00 - give or take & based on what a pro charges to do a CI bathtub.
(edit - edit - to add - the process and size of a tud and a CI top are similar, but, the materials and process are different. Also the "rough guess" assumes the above materials can be had in small quantites. Usually, with HPAC, that not the case. The materials may come in ony gallons, or worse yet, 5 gail pails)

Poly, shellac, lacquer, enamel - and/or any other off the shelf material is going to let moisture collect underneath the film. instead of protecting the CI, it's going to do far more damage.

The real simple way to put it - w/out going into technical specifics is this:
If it was easy and fairly cheap to do, then tool mfg's would have been doing it all along as a "leg up" on the competition.

Since they haven't, then it's a good bet that it can't be - or shouldn't be done.

(edit to add - dang, I should have read all of Andrew's post since he said the same thing about the mfg's)

[george wilson]

Rich,you could just get the table chromed!! BTW it's spelled caddywampus.:) Just kidding.

[Will Blick]

I am starting to see the value of a granite top.... I am surprised Steel City is the first TS maker that introduced, and I think is the only one that still offers it.

but then again, if you can deal with the solvent fumes in the waxes, this entire issue is of no concern.... while the waxes aren't perfect, they work well enough for most...

Oh well, as with most things, you hope for a simple solution, but rarely is one available...

[Greg Portland]

For me, Boeshield was the only stuff that would work in my very dew-prone shop. Now that I'm in a climate controlled area, I prefer plain old Carnuba wax (cheaper). Wipe it on & buff it off... simple. You can get 100% carnuba wax at any auto store.

[Will Blick]

Greg..... brilliant...
Not sure how we all missed that one...
I use it on my car all the time...

I assume the 100% carnuba spreads easy? I think the ones I use on my car have some additives....

[george wilson]

PLAIN carnuba wax lumps feel like a lump of plexiglass!!

[Rich Engelhardt]

BTW it's spelled caddywampus.:) Just kidding

I'll have to add that to my spell check!
:D

[Kevin Gregoire]

my Renaissance wax is about to run out and i have been looking for something else.
i read everywhere that Briwax is what to use so i bought a can, its spendy and was
kind of runny and i wasnt impressed so didnt use it.
a member suggested to me i try Johnson paste wax so i bought a can, four bucks at
Lowes but havent tried it yet but at least it is solid in this heat.


http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1190483reg.jpg

[Allen Hinton]

I recently asked one of the carpenters in the packing and crating shop at work what they used to keep their table saw top clean/rust free. He looked at me for a second and said...

" nothing, we use it every day".;)

[Steven J Corpstein]

I use Butcher's Bowling Alley Wax. It seems to hold up really well.

[Ray McCullie]

I recently asked one of the carpenters in the packing and crating shop at work what they used to keep their table saw top clean/rust free. He looked at me for a second and said...

" nothing, we use it every day".;)

Ya know, that's kinda true, if you look at railroad tracks you can tell which lines get traffic and which don't. Even so, I'd rather have the wax to help keep the wood moving then nothing...

And I wish I had everyday to spend in the shop...

[Don Morris]

I've been using Behlen's Blue Label Past Wax for years, most recently on my Grizzly 1023SL and been very happy. Recently I was in the Grizzly Factory Outlet in Pennsylvania and saw they sold it there. I was happy to see they agreed with me. At least they think it's good for Grizzly tops.

[Greg Portland]

PLAIN carnuba wax lumps feel like a lump of plexiglass!You are probably right, my tin said 100% carnuba but they have since changed the label to "pure" (which doesn't mean 100%). I use this: http://www.amazon.com/Mothers-05550-California-Natural-Carnauba/dp/B0002U2V1O/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1279298454&sr=1-1-spell

Note the "Stage 3"... the first two stages contain abrasives.

A damp rag, rub it in the tin, then rub it on the TS. Let it dry and then buff off.

[Will Blick]

First a few comments....

If the humidity is high enough, iron will rust if not protected, even if used often, just a few drops of sweat can produce some serious pitting.

Thanks for many of the suggestions of waxes, but many of you did not mention if your wax contained petro solvents, I suspect they do, that was the intent to find a wax that spread easy, but without the petro solvent odor, this way I would coat the tops more often... again, if solvents odors don't bother ya, this is a non-issue.

Anyway, thanks to Greg, the Carnuba was the missing link I was looking for...however, many of them, including the one Greg referenced still have petro solvents in them. Of course its possible the odor is less than the Renaissance wax, which IMO is VERY strong.....

I decided to try this product....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BlJ9T8DEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


While it says 100% Carnauba wax, that is surely deceiving. While 100% of the wax in the product is Carnauba, there has to be thinners, otherwise, it would never be a paste.... Carnauba by itself is supposedly rock hard.

The good news is, this wax has NO odor. It's possible the solvents used are more oil based vs solvent based.... they claim some technology breakthrough that enables ease of use for such a hard wax. Most of these higher end wax makers are tight-lipped about what ingredients are used in their products, as it's a very competitive marketplace.

The good news is, the wax can be applied quite thick (although not required) and dries fast and is slick even with a heavy coat. This is very advantageous for iron tops. Now lets see how it stands up over time.... so far, so good...

At $50, not cheap, but it is a pretty big container, it would last ya 20 years if all ya did was coat your iron tops... so if you are sensitive to petro solvent odors, and want a new wax for your iron tops, give it a try...

[Myk Rian]

Johnsons furniture paste wax, melted into the top with a heat gun, then buffed. That's what I do.

[Dan Forman]

Here is a link to Russ Fairfield's (a well known turner) website, where he gives instructions for making your own waxes with turpentine rather than mineral spirits. For those who are sensitive to petro products, this should help.

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/Wax/Wax-2-recipes.html

Dan

[Harry Robinette]

I use staples crystal clear wax,no siliocone or beeswax it's the best wax

I've found for iron or wood, leaves no finger prints ether .

I get it at woodcraft. It's Staples old Bowling Ally wax is what I was told.

Works great.

[Dave Anderson NH]

For many years my approach has been similar to the one Howard uses. I apply a coat of Boeshield T-9, remove the excess and then buff it up. On top of that I apply 2 consecutive coats of TopCote and buff it up. This lasts from 6 months to a year depending on how much I use the tool. I also use this on my cast iron and ductile iron hand tools to minimize the impact of the salts, oils, and sweat on my hands. On hand tools it does not last as long since they are more heavily used and handled all the time.