jordan, Kelton or Ellsworth hollowing tools

[Martin Rock]

Hi All

I am in the search of some hollowing tools to hollow medium to large vessels and vases.

I will be using them hand held only. I have looked at the John Jordan kit, the Kelton hollowers and also the ellsworth ones. They all offer the straight and curved tools.

Any recommendation or comments are very welcome.

thanks

Martin

[Mike Minto]

I have a Trent Bosch extreme bent bar (I know you didn't mention him, but thought you might not be familiar) that I use in my Jamieson rig. His hollowing bars can all be used in a conventional handle, also. The bend in this tool allows me to get in wide forms so as to hollow their extremes, and his cutters hold a good edge. The bars come in 3 diameters. Just FYI.

[Dennis Ford]

Of the ones you mentioned, I only have a John Jordan. I like it a lot for the size vessels it fits, on larger forms I use a home-made captured system modeled after the Jamesion. I find the hand held to be faster and more enjoyable as long as kept within its limits. I only have a smaller John Jordan hollowing tool so far, the limits are related to its size not the design.

[Roger Chandler]

I have the Ellsworth hollowing tools. They are well made by David himself. You will need to turn handles if you get them, and he has an instruction sheet that comes with them, and the cutting tips are replaceable.

I bought mine from David when he demo'd for our club, and made my handles very similar to his with an oval end to help eliminate hand torque which he says helps eliminate carpal tunnel syndrome. His personal handles are long, and I made them long as well [27"] and I figured he knows a lot more than I do, so why argue with what has been developed over years of hollowing experience by one who is truly a "master" at the process.

[David Walser]

If you're going to "free hand" hollow, you should add Don Pencil's "Scorpion" system. It's well made and comes for a reasonable price.

Here's a link: http://donpencil.com/

[Brodie Brickey]

If you have any welding ability or know someone, you can build many of the hollowing rigs for a lot less yourself.

[charlie knighton]

I will be using them hand held only.


i suggest you find somewhere to try the hand held, before buying

[Martin Rock]

Charlie, I have done some hand help hollowing before with the sorby straigth mutli tip tool.

[Brodie Brickey]

The Sorby Multi tip is a good starter hollowing tool, as soon as you put a longer handle on it. It will only reach about 6" deep though.

Were you planning on going deeper with your new system?

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have the Jordon and Ellsworth. They are great tools but my question to you is what do you mean by medium to large? These tools in my opinion will work well for small to medium.

[Martin Rock]

Bernie and Brodie

with the sorby tool, I am able to hollow form about 7 inch deep max. I would like to hollow deeper in the in the 12 to 16 inch range. Less for vessels, deeper for larger openning vase.

thanks

Martin

[Neil Strong]

I would like to hollow deeper in the in the 12 to 16 inch range. Less for vessels, deeper for larger openning vase.




Have no experience with Ellsworth or Jordan hollowers at those depths, but both the Munro 3/4" Hollower2 (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=3qHllw2) with 28" shaft or Woodcut Pro-Forme (5/8") Hollower (http://www.shop.woodcut-tools.com/section.php?xSec=87&xPage=1&jssCart=1b73095f9719e091f95f480b74b29c58) will do the job.

.....

[Edward Bartimmo]

Martin,

I have the Ellsworth tools (small & large) as well as the Bosch Tools. Ellsworth has proven that you can hollow using any tool. There have been a number of technological advancements in tools that other systems incorporate, such as the Trent Bosch and John Jordan tools systems. Most notable is that the bent neck tools have the cutter tip in line with the tool bar, so that there is less rotational torque with the cutter inline with the handle, whereas the Ellsworth is offset and less stable with any catch. Both the Bosch and Jordan Systems are comparable. I purchased a Bosch set based on recommendation by a respected hollowing specialist who favored Bosch's shoulder design supporting the cutter. After a half hour call with Trent, I decided to purchase tools from a good guy. That said I didn't speak with Jordan and have no reason to suspect that he is anything other than a nice guy as well. I choose the 5/8" diameter tool size, which is heavy enough for medium-deep hollowing while still manageable free handed and the tools can also be used with a hollowing system.

Good Luck
Edward

[Martin Rock]

Edward, with the Bosh Tool, how are the tips removed. Do you need to remove the tip for sharpening, and what method is recommended for sharpenning. Grinder vs slip stone.

thanks again

Martin

[Mike Minto]

Edward, with the Bosh Tool, how are the tips removed. Do you need to remove the tip for sharpening, and what method is recommended for sharpenning. Grinder vs slip stone.

thanks again

Martin

Martin, both the Bosch and Ellsworth are held in place with super (CA) glue. Re sharpening, I do use a grinder some (takes alot of material fast - light touch needed) but mostly hone.

[Ryan Baker]

I really like the Jordan tools. They just seem to have a better curve than the other similar tools. From your list, I would pick the Keltons second (Keltons are especially nice in the small sizes) and the Ellesworth tools last. The Ellesworth tools do work, but they are much more difficult to use than the swan-neck tools.

For any of those tools, a good handle is important. An arm-brace type handle like the Don Pencil, Dennis Stuart, Sorby, Jordan, etc. can help a lot.

Note that a standard 3/4" tool, like the large Jordan, is only going to work to a depth of about 9-10" or so. Beyond that, you will need a heavier bar. Forms 12" to 16" deep are seriously deep for hand hollowing. For that you should be looking at bars that are more like 1-1/4" diameter, with a 3/16" or smaller cutter.

[Allen Neighbors]

Martin, I was going to ditto what David Walser said, 'til you said 12 to 16 inches deep. I have the Don Pencil Scorpion, and it's a really good tool! But......
For 12 to 16" depths, you're going to need 3/4" and 1" and 1-1/4" tool shafts to reach that far across the toolrest. So I give you Darrell Feltmate: http://www.aroundthewoods.com His website will show you how to make your own Oland tools. I started making my own from his instructions on his website. My big one is modeled after his "thar she blows" harpoon.
I've made the same tools, with swan necks for hollowing under shoulders, and they work well. HTH.

[Carole Valentine]

I own a bunch of different hollowing tools...Keltons, Jordans, Sorby, Pencil, Hunter, shop made. Virtually all of them sit in the drawer except the Keltons. They are the essence of simplicity...no separate bits, easy to sharpen, no set screws, let me get to any area inside my forms and can go from rapid hogging of wood to fine finish cuts. Everyone has their "go-to" tools...those are mine.

[Ralph Lindberg]

If you're going to "free hand" hollow, you should add Don Pencil's "Scorpion" system. It's well made and comes for a reasonable price.

Here's a link: http://donpencil.com/

What I like about Don's system is that you can use it with the lathe running forward or backward (try backwards, it's interesting how much easier that can be)

FWI Woodworkers Supply has the Don Pencil system on sale, last time I checked (when I bought mine) their sale price was lower then buy a BLEM from Don direct

[Martin Rock]

Thanks all for your input

Ralph, I am glad you pointed out the reversability of some tool, as I plan to turn outboard and inboard. Something to think about.

Martin

[Edward Bartimmo]

Martin,

My Bosch set is new so I haven't had reason to change out tips. You sharpen the tip in the tool and after a few dozen..hundred??? sharpenings the carbide cutter tip finally gets to short to sharpen further. Then it is a simple matter of changing out the cutter. I believe it is the case of the carbide tips are superglued into tool handle. This is same as Ellsworth. You simply apply a little heat to loosen up CA and pull out out worn out tip.

I purchased the Scorpion arm brace from Don Pencil. It took a month for it to arrive. My only comment as to the manufacturing is that the welds are a bit crude, but otherwise sound. If you are going to buy one and can get it off the shelf for same price then do so to avoid 1 month shipping delay.

ca
Edward, with the Bosh Tool, how are the tips removed. Do you need to remove the tip for sharpening, and what method is recommended for sharpenning. Grinder vs slip stone.

thanks again

Martin