Which wide belt sander would you buy?

[dirk martin]

I'm looking at the Grizzly G0527, or the shopfox W1709.
Which do you like better? The difference in sanding width is not important to me.

Grizzly:
Specifications: $4950.00
•Motor: 5 HP, 220v, single-phase, 60 Hz, 1725 RPM
•Conveyor feed motor: 1/2 HP
•Elevation motor: 1/3 HP
•Conveyor Speed: 16.4, 23, 32.8 FPM
•Maximum board width: 17-1/2"
•Maximum board thickness: 6"
•Minimum board length: 9"
•Minimum board thickness: 1/8"
•Surface speed of drums: 3550 FPM
•Approx. shipping weight: 1008 lbs.
Features:
•Digital control panel
•Disc brake for emergency stops
•Dust proof photo electric eye
•Pneumatic belt tensioning
•4 rubber pressure rollers
•4" dust port
•Digital amp meter

Shopfox: $5573.33
W1709 - 7-1/2 H.P. 20" Wide-Belt Sander w/ Digital Readout
Sanding motor: 7-1/2 HP, 220V, 40 Amp, Single-phase
Sanding motor speed: 1,725 RPM
Feed motor: 1/2 HP, 220V, 3.8 Amp, Single-phase
Feed motor speed: 1,725 RPM
Elevation motor: 1/3 HP, 220V, 3 Amp, Single-phase
Elevation motor speed: 1,725 RPM
Drum speed: 3,550 FPM
Drum diameter: 7-13/16"
Feed rates: 16.4, 23, 32.8 FPM
Maximum sanding width: 20"
Maximum sanding thickness: 6"
Minimum stock length: 9"
Minimum stock thickness: 1/8"
Belt size: 20-1/2" x 48"
Required air pressure: 57 PSI @ 2 CFM
Dust port: 4"
Footprint: 31-1/4" wide x 16-1/2" deep
Height with dust port: 60-1/4"
Approx. shipping weight: 1,093 lbs.

[C Scott McDonald]

Have you considered a used timesaver? Lots around with all the cabinet shops closing down.

I dont mean any offense in this question, but if you cant get your current Grizzly to work why would you buy another one?

Scott

[Rick Lizek]

If the widebelt doesn't have a platen it's just not on my list. The platen is what makes the difference in a quality finish on a widebelt otherwise it's just a drum sander with a longer belt.

Personally I'd go with a stroke sander over a widebelt for overall finish sanding. After 35 years in the wood and metal industry doing everything from production work to repairing, tuning and purchasing the appropriate tools and machines for the job you learn a lot.

[glenn bradley]

I'm hoping some widebelt and drum users will chime in. I am curious as to the good and bad features as well.

[dirk martin]

Well, the problem I'm having with my current wide belt, is located at a different shop of mine. And, from everything I've read, everybody is happy with their 15" wide belts, from Grizzly...so that issue I'm having with the belt tearing on that model, I'm viewing as a glitch, and not something consistant with Grizzly quality. No offense taken, Scott.

I forgot to look at the Shop Fox's, and ran into one online yesterday...thus this thread....

My primary use for this new sander I'm looking for, will be for sanding boards down to thin stock (1/4", 1/8", 3/16" etc).

Where's a good website to see similar Timesaver sanders to what I'm considering, with prices?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Dirk,

Not sure where you're at, but in my area, Craigslist seems to have a very nice looking Timesaver for sale every week or so. It's almost shocking to see how cheap some of these big industrial machines are (I wish I had more space!!).

[Jeff Duncan]

Not a big fan of either of those choices so I'll leave that debate for the rest. I bought a used 43" Timesaver for my shop for about 1/5th of what your looking to spend. It's about 35 years old and may well outlast either of the machines your looking at. Timesaver just made some great heavy duty machines.
The question is what is your primary use going to be and what kind of power do you have available? The 15" units I have to believe are popular mainly b/c they can be run on very little power. Whereas my 3 ph 25 hp motor wouldn't do well in a garage shop. If your limited to small single phase motors then your options may not go far past your current 2 choices.

If on the other hand you have plenty of 3 phase power available you can find used widebelt sanders anywhere. With machines like this location isn't quite as important as with smaller items. Mainly b/c the cost to ship is a low percentage of the total cost. It's more important to find a machine in good condition ready to work.
good luck,
JeffD

BTW, Glenn, there's no real comparison between drum sanders and widebelts. Widebelts are better in just about every conceivable way, with the exception of footprint and power needs if your a small shop. I've owned drum sanders and have run some pretty impressive widebelts....one in particular that boasted being able to sand the ink off a dollar bill! I can't say I'd recommend one for the average home shop, but for a pro shop they're almost a must.

[Richard Link]

I have the Grizzly G0527 18" wide belt sander, which I like very much. I replaced a Performax 22-44 drum sander and, frankly, there is absolutely no comparison (as expected). I'm in a hobby shop environment, by the way, so the wide belt is a real luxury and isn't running 24/7. I do use it on a lot of projects, however. It is particularly great for leveling table tops, doors and processing resawn lumber. My machine has worked great and I'm very happy I invested in it.

Make sure you have a strong enough circuit for it, however, as it can draw a lot of amps and trip the breaker if you get a bit aggressive on the material removal.

Richard

[dirk martin]

Well, Richard, that's pretty much where I'm sitting.
I'm so ready to get rid of my Performax 22-44, also.
And I only have single phase current.
I'm in the Chicago area...and the only Timesaver I see near me, is a $10K unit, near Milwaukee.

So, Richard, you know how when you run the 22-44, you'll start a resawn board in, and then turn the wheel to creep the head down until you hear the paper hitting the wood....

Well, on the G0527 with electric table, can you do that same sort of thing?

[dirk martin]

Is this a much better buy, then the two new units I gave the specs on, at the beginning of this thread?

http://sd.craigslist.org/tls/1831893794.html

[Richard Link]

Well, Richard, that's pretty much where I'm sitting.
I'm so ready to get rid of my Performax 22-44, also.
And I only have single phase current.
I'm in the Chicago area...and the only Timesaver I see near me, is a $10K unit, near Milwaukee.

So, Richard, you know how when you run the 22-44, you'll start a resawn board in, and then turn the wheel to creep the head down until you hear the paper hitting the wood....

Well, on the G0527 with electric table, can you do that same sort of thing?


Dirk,

With respect to the 37 inch wide belt sander you mentioned on Craigslist. Is it a better buy? I suppose so. It's a 10 Hp 37" machine. On the other hand, it is (1) going to take up a LOT of space and (2) pull a LOT of current. It really comes down to whether you really need such a large machine. On your 22-44 sander, how often do you flip pieces or sand items larger than 18" wide? No doubt, a 37" wide belt would really be fantastic for flattening huge table tops, etc. On the other hand, I (1) just couldn't devote that much space to the machine in my small shop and (2) rarely build items so large that they would require the 37" capacity. Your milage may vary.

With respect to the grizzly 18" you can certainly ratchet your way down to the surface like a drum sander. Of course, unlike the drum sander, you don't have to. The digital table is pretty accurate. What I generally do is just measure the piece with a digital caliper and type in the number. Done. Pretty close every time. Works great. Easy to ratchet downward after. Its really a wonderful convenience and works better than I anticipated on a machine in this price range. The quality of the sanding is also much better than my old drum sander due to the oscillation mechanism. Also, its much easier and more convenient to change sanding belts with this machine than the old drum sander. Want to swap between several sanding belts...no problem, takes about 10 sec to swap. Belts can go on and off multiple times, very easily.

Although I'm sure this has already been factored into your decision, make sure you have enough dust collection capacity for a wide belt sander. I imagine that the 37" model will require quite a bit of suckage to keep things happy.

Bottom line: I used my drum sander relatively infrequently since it really didn't do a terrific job flattening glue ups and doors (IMHO). It was ok but not great. Lots of linear scratches to clean up. It was, I'll admit, very nice for thicknessing very thin pieces of wood such as shop cut veneer. In contrast, the baby wide belt I have is so easy to run and the output is so satisfying that I tend to use it any chance I get!

Richard

[dirk martin]

Thanks again, Richard. I think the G0527 is the way I'll go.

[neal jack]

G0527 looks a great choice

[Rick Lizek]

Thanks again, Richard. I think the G0527 is the way I'll go.

What exactly are your needs in a widebelt? The unit you are looking doesn't have a sanding platen so it means you will be random orbit sanding before finishing. A platen will give a superior surface finish and save a lot of time. The G0527 is basically a drum sander with longer paper. Folks don't seem to understand why a platen is such a big deal. No one even mentioned the platen issue so I'm pretty sure no one knows what the benefits are.

[Jeff Duncan]

Well with that information I'm going to cast a vote for a Grizzly also. Not because I like them or find them to be a great investment. Nope I would go that way as it sounds like you have limited space, power supply, and really aren't going to be pushing your machine.
I would think that 37" sander with a 10 hp motor may be a bit underpowered. I couldn't see the listing or price so can't comment on the value. As for size, again if those machines are big enough for what you do then you should be good. I know with my work I wanted a 37" and now find 43" is limiting on the rare occasion.
As for platens I don't know if it would be worth it or not in your case? I don't use one and several other guys with shops I've talked to don't use them much either, so I really couldn't say. I will say that with my machine I do need a final random orbit sanding prior to finishing.
JeffD

[Richard Link]

What exactly are your needs in a widebelt? The unit you are looking doesn't have a sanding platen so it means you will be random orbit sanding before finishing. A platen will give a superior surface finish and save a lot of time. The G0527 is basically a drum sander with longer paper. Folks don't seem to understand why a platen is such a big deal. No one even mentioned the platen issue so I'm pretty sure no one knows what the benefits are.

Rick,

It's not that we don't understand the value of a platen. I just think that it is more of a luxury than a necessity given the original author's stated needs. The next step up in the Grizzly line is to a 24 " wide belt with a platen which will run you almost $9,000. Honestly, for a small hobbiest environment, I don't miss the platen and certainly don't miss $4500 worth of platen. I don't need a production machine that will completely replace hand sanding for a huge premium. I am simply not looking for a totally automated woodworking experience. For my needs, the G0527 hits a nice sweet spot. For a professional shop where time is money, sure. Would it be silly to buy a 37" wide belt without a platen in a production environment, of course it would.

You are somewhat misleading the original author in stating that the wide belt without a platen is just a "drum sander with longer paper." At the VERY least, the wide belt is just an "oscillating drum sander with longer paper." In practice, my platen-less G0527 absolutely runs rings around my old drum sander in terms of (1) quality of surface finish, (2) ease of belt changes, (3) accuracy of thicknessing, (4) ease of setup, and (5) enjoyment of use, etc.

Would it be nice to have a platen, I guess so provided you don't believe all the hype about how they can be hard to adjust, etc. Do I miss it....not at all (in my environment). I'm a bit skeptical about bargain basement priced widebelts with a platen, frankly. For that extra $4500 the platen would have cost me from Grizzly, I've got a nice bandsaw, multi-router, spindle sander and a nice little random orbital sander that I actually enjoy using (just not for flattening table tops, doors and resawn veneers). My only problem is how to shrink the widebelt sander to be even smaller....


Richard

[Mike Heidrick]

Buddy in Clinton, IL has a 37" 7.5hp Timesaver Speedsaver. It was about $8K. I believe they have a 10hp single phase option too and I know they make 43" models. Have you looked into them at all?

[dirk martin]

Wow, Rick, I'd have sworn that the G0527 had a platen, but upon closer inspection, it looks like it does not....as you state.

I'll mostly be creating thin stock, under 1/2"...so surface smoothness is important.

I sure like the digital height adjustment, but I think a platen is more important. I think I'll have to go with the G9983 instead....

[dirk martin]

Mike, $8K is out of my budget.

So, now I'm vasilating between the G0527 and the G9983.

I need to create 1/8" and 1/4" stock, on a regular basis...for customers. They use it for everything from scroll sawing, to backdrops on stage productions. I'll be creating 50 to 200 linear feet per day. Sometimes as high as 1,000 on a larger order. Though, with a wide belt added to my arsenol, I can bump up my advertising, and orders will increase. Every species of wood, imaginable, from red oak, to Ziricote. Rarely over 15" wide....very rarely.

I think I'm back leaning towards the G0527, even tho it has no platen.....do you guys think I'll regret it for my usage? But then again, if the G9983 will work just as well, and give a more accurate finish, I can save some bucks....

[Mark Woodmark]

I replaced my Performax 16-32 a couple years back with a Woodmaster 26 inch wide drum sander. No comparison between the two. The Woodmaster works great. The Performax was a real pain to use

[dirk martin]

I don't get it...you went from one drum sander, to another drum sander. Why is the Woodmaster drum sander so much better than the Performax?

And are you suggesting that the woodmaster drumsander, might be comparable to using a widebelt sander?