Chalk on File

[Tom Winship]

My older brother and I were talking today about the "tricks of the trade" that were being lost with passing generations.

He mentioned (and I don't remember it) that our father used to put chalk on a file when sharpening something. When I told him I didn't remember it, he said to try it, that it sure makes the sharpening go easier.

Is anyone familiar with this trick and know what makes it work?

[Bill Houghton]

I think the chalk probably serves as a lubricant, although I'm not sure about that. I do know that it encourages the swarf from the filing to fall out of the teeth instead of getting caught, and is particularly helpful when filing aluminum.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Bill said.

It is like putting oil on an Arkansas stone or water on a water stone.

You should use a stiff brush to clean the file after use though, since chalk can absorb and hold water.

jim

[george wilson]

The chalk helps prevent the file from getting clogged by sticky types of metals like wrought iron,or copper.

Some machinists like to oil their files. I usually oil a hand hacksaw,but most don't do that. It makes the sawing go quicker.

[harry strasil]

It makes the surface of the file slick, so gummy, soft materials won't ball/stop up the teeth gullets, powder is chalk, chalk is talc, you can use talcum powder instead of chalk if you want to. Just sprinkle some on and rap the other side of the file on a piece of wood to make it stick to the file.

[David Weaver]

My older brother and I were talking today about the "tricks of the trade" that were being lost with passing generations.

He mentioned (and I don't remember it) that our father used to put chalk on a file when sharpening something. When I told him I didn't remember it, he said to try it, that it sure makes the sharpening go easier.

Is anyone familiar with this trick and know what makes it work?

The answer's already been given, but I do it sometimes, too, but only really with my "expensive" files - like the barettes and the swiss pattern pillar files, etc.

I don't do it with the cheaper files because I haven't noticed it to be worth the time on them - I'd rather just hit them with a file card when they get clogged, but I've only really had a problem with sticky metals as mentioned above.

When I have a choice (i.e, I don't have a kit), I build anything out of metal with O1 steel. It's harder to pein, but the tradeoff is that it never troubles the files and you can comb cut it.

I did just finish off the tails and get ready for peining a kit from St. James Bay tool co (didn't do the bronze lever cap yet). I don't know what it was for metal, but it looked crystalline to the naked eye and filed really well. If it peins well, it'll seem like a great metal for planes. Lots different than the mild steel and brass that came with the shepherd kit, and easier to file than O1 by a long shot.

Anyway, reason I don't use chalk more on the cheap files is because I'm usually wanting them to work as fast as they can. If they pin some, and leave marks in the surface of what I'm filing before I get them to the card to clean them off, I'll just clean those marks up with a clean finer file when I'm done. It seems like most of the chalk comes off in the first stroke when I do it, anyway.

Never thought about oil though, that's worth trying.

[mike holden]

Tom,
This is an old trick. I was also taught to chalk a grinding wheel when you want to dress aluminum. Lots of chalk, light cuts and you can grind aluminum. (I was a patternmaker)
Mike

[Stephen Shepherd]

It makes the surface of the file slick, so gummy, soft materials won't ball/stop up the teeth gullets, powder is chalk, chalk is talc, you can use talcum powder instead of chalk if you want to. Just sprinkle some on and rap the other side of the file on a piece of wood to make it stick to the file.

Chalk is actually Calcium Carbonate and Talc is soapstone, steatite. Talcum, French Chalk is finely powdered native hydrous magnesium silicate. all are lubricants.

Stephen

[george wilson]

Chalk up one,Stephen!!:)

[David Weaver]

I usually oil a hand hacksaw,but most don't do that. It makes the sawing go quicker.

Missed this, but me, too. Coarse tooth hacksaw with a straight blade (none of the wavy 40 tpi blades) and some oil, and the saw goes fast and easy - metal comes out in nice big granules.

It's still always a lot of physical work on thicker metal, though!

I'm still learning the ropes a lot in terms of hand metalwork compared to your huge portfolio, George. I'm all ears any time you post anything about it.

[Tom Winship]

One of the things my brother and I talked about was how these things are being forgotten with each passing generation. Should someone write a book on these things. My dad taught me a lot about a lot of things, but there is so much knowledge availabe on this site. What will my grandson do when he has a question and we are all gone?

[Wes Grass]

I've used chalk, and it works pretty well. Still get some pinning on some materials, and like already mentioned, you have to apply it quite often. Brownells has big sticks of chalk, BTW.

Asked my Dad about this years ago and his reply was something on the order of "I don't know where people got this idea of using chalk. It's soapstone that you're supposed to use on files". This probably passed on from my Grandfather, who was a *Master* toolmaker. Never ran across any soapstone to try out.

[Stephen Shepherd]

I've used chalk, and it works pretty well. Still get some pinning on some materials, and like already mentioned, you have to apply it quite often. Brownells has big sticks of chalk, BTW.

Asked my Dad about this years ago and his reply was something on the order of "I don't know where people got this idea of using chalk. It's soapstone that you're supposed to use on files". This probably passed on from my Grandfather, who was a *Master* toolmaker. Never ran across any soapstone to try out.

You can get welder's soapstone markers, they are made of soapstone and used for marking metal that is to be heated, the mark doesn't burn off. Some of them are a composite soapstone and a binder material but does work.

Stephen

[Gil Knowles]

You can buy blocks of soapstone from Lee Valley.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32712&cat=1,250,43298

[Bill Houghton]

One of the things my brother and I talked about was how these things are being forgotten with each passing generation. Should someone write a book on these things. My dad taught me a lot about a lot of things, but there is so much knowledge availabe on this site. What will my grandson do when he has a question and we are all gone?

With any luck at all, your son/daughter will have picked it up from you, and be ready to pass it on.

[harry strasil]

One of the things my brother and I talked about was how these things are being forgotten with each passing generation. Should someone write a book on these things. My dad taught me a lot about a lot of things, but there is so much knowledge availabe on this site. What will my grandson do when he has a question and we are all gone?

Hopefully this site and many others will be archived!

[Steve Dallas]

My older brother and I were talking today about the "tricks of the trade" that were being lost with passing generations.

He mentioned (and I don't remember it) that our father used to put chalk on a file when sharpening something. When I told him I didn't remember it, he said to try it, that it sure makes the sharpening go easier.

Is anyone familiar with this trick and know what makes it work?

That trick of the trade is only necessary when files are brand new and a little grabby and screechy. The old timers would chaulk a file (soapstone does work better but chaulk was also used plenty) for the first time the face met metal and not so much after that.

Depending on the humidity of your shop, rubbing up can make the file clog faster and be more difficult to clear. Chaulking is not a panacea nor something that was done every time a file was used unless it was done so purely out of habit.

If you are honest with yourself by properly accounting for the placebo effect, you won't find this to be a terribly useful routine to make part of your normal shop practice. And in humid conditions it is actually detrimental. The file won't clear and they'll rust like nobody's business.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Keeps junk from sticking in the teeth. Also, don't mix files used for steel with those used on alum.

I thought everyone knew about the chalk trick and I ain't that old, really (at least I don't think so).

[Derby Matthews]

The answer's already been given, but I do it sometimes, too, but only really with my "expensive" files - like the barettes and the swiss pattern pillar files, etc.

I don't do it with the cheaper files because I haven't noticed it to be worth the time on them - I'd rather just hit them with a file card when they get clogged, but I've only really had a problem with sticky metals as mentioned above.

(snip)

Never thought about oil though, that's worth trying.

Those wood handled brass (fine) bristled brushes that look like an oversized toothbrush do a nice job of keeping my files clean. I use the card for my rasps, but use the BBB on my fine-toothed metal files.
I use cutting fluid (sulphurized hydraulic fluid?) on a file at my metal lathe to clean up burrs. Never thought to use it for general filing . Will have to try that....

[David Weaver]

Yeah, it gets mentioned on forums a lot, too, which is where I first heard/read it. I haven't seen any old documents on metalworking / peining. When I started to put planes together, some quick discussion with Raney, a CD from bill carter and a lot of hacksawing, filing and hammering made the most sense. I don't remember reading much of anything about metalworking before that on a ww board - it was foreign territory.

[Derby Matthews]

Tom,
This is an old trick. I was also taught to chalk a grinding wheel when you want to dress aluminum. Lots of chalk, light cuts and you can grind aluminum. (I was a patternmaker)
Mike

Wow cool sounding trick! I have to try this one too.

[george wilson]

About the most annoying stuff to file is wrought iron-at least the wrought iron they used at the Gunsmith's Shop in Williamsburg. It was a more modern iron called Byer's iron. Not sure of the spelling. It contained the proper ingredients-iron and silicon inclusions. Just not "assembled" in the original way. Anyway,it would suddenly scratch your previously finished surface. Chalking helped. I have made things out of real old wrought iron,and it was less obnoxious to work,and felt "drier" that the Byer's iron.