How am I supposed to make this Incra miter gauge work?

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have an Incra 1000SE miter gauge. I noticed that workpieces are sliding a little bit along the fence when I cut them, resulting in non-square cuts.

I'd like to put some adhesive-backed sandpaper on the fence to add some friction, but I'm not sure that will work with this fence. The attached stop block thing has little protrusions that fit into grooves in the fence (so that even a sharp miter will be "stopped" at the correct length, supposedly), but that means I can't just glue sandpaper to the fence, as it will cover the groves.

Anyone come up with a good solution to this problem? :confused:

[Jim O'Dell]

I would think the stop would keep the piece of wood from moving away from the blade. If you aren't using the stop, try some test cuts with it and see if it doesn't cure your problem. If the wood you are cutting is too long to be able to use the stops, maybe a piece of wood that you can use as a "backer" that has the adhesive sandpaper on, and let it ride on the stop. Of course, the more things you add in there, the more deviation from perfect you can be. But might be better that what you are getting now. Jim.

[Will Overton]

The stop blocks should, if used properly, stop the movement. As far as using sandpaper, why can't you apply it, then using a razor blade or X-acto knife, cut out for the grooves?

[glenn bradley]

I am pretty sure that Dan is talking about pieces that are too long to use with the stop block otherwise there would not be an issue. Rather than change fences when I had long or short pieces I actually drilled mine (for the telescoping lock bolts) and reversed it on the gauge so get a larger surface, stuck sandpaper to it and use a shop made stop block when required.

[Larry LaRoque]

My 1000HD manual shows how to make a wooden sub fence and recommends sandpaper be glued to the sub fence, it also shows how the Flip Stop accomodates the wooden sub fence. If you don't find it in your owners manual you could probably download it from their website. HTH.:)

[Dan Friedrichs]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

I know that if I set the stop, I can force the wood against that, and it won't move. But often, I just make a pencil mark on the board, and don't need (or want) to set the stop. So this is a problem for both long and short pieces.

Larry - I do remember reading that in the manual, but if I wanted to build my own fence, I guess I would have just bought the head, and not the complicated fence/stop assembly.

I like Will's idea best - I think I'll try doing that.

(start rant)
When I got this gauge 7 months ago, I posted that I was disappointed with it. Everyone assured me that I would get used to it with time, and that it was simply amazing. I remain unconvinced. The protractor head may be fine, but my problems with the fence/gauge combo are numerous:

1) The fence is too long to be moved to the right miter gauge slot without loosening bolts and moving it over.
1a) Moving the fence upsets the ruler on the fence, so you have to recalibrate it if you ever move it to the right slot.

2) You need a special hex screwdriver to use the fence extension. Why couldn't they have put a thumbscrew on this? (I know I can get my own, but it should have come with one)

3) The hex head screws holding the fence in place are a different size than the hex head screws mentioned in #2, so you need TWO allen wrenches for this thing.

4) Although everyone says "Incra stuff is dead accurate", I was making a very wide picture frame a few days ago, and found that the 45* stop was off by about 0.1* (after wrecking several workpieces)

5) Why couldn't they have textured the fence face just a little?

Anyhow - my point is that I feel this is a poorly engineered product. I would highly recommend anyone considering this product to try it out at the store, first. Imagine how you'd use it to set and make cuts, then consider how much set-up time would be involved, etc.

[mreza Salav]

I have that gauge and like it but only use it for miter cuts.
I have never seen a miter gauge that is as easy/accurate to use for cross cut as a cross-cut sled.

For all my cross-cuts I use my trusted cross-cut sled.
I've put a tape (of this http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32550&cat=1,43513,43517 kind) on it too and it's dead accurate everytime I cut.
Don't even have to measure/mark the wood. Just lay it on the sled to the measure I want (on the ruler) and cut it.

[Gary Lange]

Dan, I would send your observations and concerns to Incra for them to see. It may or may not do any good but for me it would be some self satisfaction. I have the same item but haven't used it that much to form any opinion yet.

[Cary Falk]

Dan,
I am sorry you are not happy with the 1000se. Everybody's requirements are different. I have had several and the Incra is the best I have owned. My biggest gripe was that silly stamped steel angle that locks the head to the fence. It is not 90 degrees and you have to shim it. I am surprised you didn't mentioned that.

[Zach England]

incra miter gauge

[Zach England]

sorry double post

[Ray Newman]

Seems obvious that since you were not satisfied with this product from the very beginning, you'll never be satisfied with it.

My SWAG (Scientific Wild Arsed Guess) is that it might be better to give it away, or sell it, and buy something that you feel is more appropriate for your needs....

[Tom Esh]

...Anyhow - my point is that I feel this is a poorly engineered product...

Nicely built but yeah, it's just way more "fiddly" than necessary IMO. I replaced some of those what-were-they-thinking hex cap screws with knurled head bolts. Much better. Before I stuck sandpaper to the fence and cut it for the stop, I found myself swaping miter guages all the time. I didn't go the aux fence face route because it just reduces the space (already at a premium) in front of the blade. I'll probably sell it when (if) I come up with effective dust collection for the miter saw.

[James Phillips]

I love mine. I have the 3000SE, which I think they may be selling now as the 1000SE. You do have to get it set up but once you set it up the calibrated settings are true. I like the flip stop fence and it has worked well for me. I keep the hex driver laying on top of my auxiliary force and it stays nice and out of the way but with in reach.

Unlike most folks I have my miter gauge set up on the right side of my saw since the extension table is there. I also never use the "Ruler" on top since when you change an angle it would not be accurate anyway.

I keep my stock miter gauge set at 90 for when I need to quickly square something.

[Prashun Patel]

Dan-
I suggest you get a new one. There are Incra miter lovers and haters. The two camps never seem to meet in the middle.

I'm a lover. I stick some 150g on the fence close to the blade (within 4 inches from it). If I have to cross cut anything that small, anyway, I don't feel safe having it bound by the stop block with my fingers on it.

[Zach England]

I more or less like mine, but the adjustments are fiddly. I keep a set of hex keys on the front rail of the table saw and I'd rather not have to do this. I'd buy one I might like better, but I am looking to upgrade saws in the coming 6 months or so and thinking I may go to a slider.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I also never use the "Ruler" on top since when you change an angle it would not be accurate anyway.


I guess this is exactly my complaint - it seems like no one at Incra really thought about how someone would use this product. As you said, the ruler is basically useless - so why did they include it? At this price, the features should be well thought-out and easy-to-use, not random afterthoughts that may or may not work for you.


Nicely built but yeah, it's just way more "fiddly" than necessary IMO.

Well put, Tom. I guess I feel like I got a few pieces of aluminum extrusions, rather than a well thought-out product.

I guess if I were to suggest how this product could have been made much better, I'd say:

1) Texture the face of the fence

2) Use a thumbscrew to hold the extension fence in place, and possibly to hold the fence to the miter head

3) Make the 90* bracket actually 90*, rather than requiring users to shim it (as Cary said)

4) Have a way to index the fence to the miter head, so that you could move the fence away (for a miter cut), then put it back in the same place (so the tape measure is still aligned correctly). This way, you wouldn't have to recalibrate the tape every single time you cut a miter

5) Cut the stop block into 2 separate stops. I never understood why I would want two stops that were a fixed distance apart (and the distance is some weird non-integer value, as well). I'd rather have 2 separate stops that I could position arbitrarily.

Just my thoughts...

[Neil Brooks]

Just my thoughts...

Smart ones, too ... and .... as a 1000SE owner ... I think they're thoughts worth sharing, directly, with Incra.

Seriously.

[george wilson]

I also made a 3/4" thick face for the fence from beechwood.

I don't understand the need for shims mentioned. There are screws you can loosen to adjust the fence perfectly square.

The basic problem is that the anodized aluminum is very slippery. Incra needs to deal with that issue.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I don't understand the need for shims mentioned. There are screws you can loosen to adjust the fence perfectly square.


The piece that connects the fence to the protractor head is stamped, and for some reason, it is slightly less than 90 degrees. You can loosen the screws that attach it both to the protactor head and to the fence, but if you tighten those screws down, the fence will not be perpendicular to your table saw top. You're supposed to loosen one set of screws and shim the angle piece until the fence is perpendicular to the saw top.

[glenn bradley]

Dan, I would send your observations and concerns to Incra for them to see.

+1. I had problems with my first fence piece. I called them and they sent a replacement that was satisfactory right away.


My biggest gripe was that silly stamped steel angle that locks the head to the fence. It is not 90 degrees and you have to shim it. I am surprised you didn't mentioned that.

Cary speaks true. Once shimmed it is not a problem but, why should I have to?

[Thomas Williams]

I am in the camp that really likes the Incra miter gauge, but it does need some add ons. Lee Valley sells knobs that press on the allen heads so you don't need the allen wrench (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=61655&cat=1,43455,61994&ap=1). 3/4 MDF works well for a sub fence that you can stick sand paper on, the miter stop can be shifted forward to accommodate the MDF. I have never had a miter gauge that was vertically square to the table and the fence didn't need shimming, but as Glen said, shy should you have to.

[Larry Frank]

I have the Incra 1000SE and am very happy with it. I do not mind having to use a hex screwdriver to make adjustments.

HOWEVER, I have read a lot of posts about Miter Gauges and everyone has there favorite and ones they hate. This is why there are several different people making them.

If you do not like the Incra the best thing to do is get rid of it as soon as possible. It is no good going into your shop and looking a piece of equipment and remembering how bad you hate it. I would go to a woodworking store and handle as many different ones as you can and buy one you like.

[george wilson]

I didn't have to shim mine.

It isn't necessary to put sandpaper on the wooden add-on fence facing. The wood by itself is enough to hold the wood. I don't want abrasives to manage to get to my saw teeth,anyway,either from breaking off in crumbs,or sticking to my wood.

[Prashun Patel]

While fiddly, I have to say, mine is extremely accurate. The miter angles - once calibrated - are right on. There's no slop in the miter bar. These things make it worth the price.

To that point, the Incra 1000SE is extremely well priced at $100ish. I bought mine in part because I perceived it to be less expensive than some of its competitors.

[John Thompson]

I have 3 V-27's.. one with home-made short fence.. one with the Incra accessory long fence.. one dedicated to my box joint jig. The two have home-made stops. If I don't use the stop I simply Quik-clamp the stock to the fence and always Quik-clamp stock on the box cutter jig and on miter cuts. All mine were accurate out of the box. On the one with the Incra long fence accessory stop... I replaced the torx head bolt with a T handle bolt. I use the two to cross-cut up to 12" wide. Anything over that up to 30" on a cross-cut.. I built a fence forward sled that gets the call as with no rear fence it allows me to make up to 30" cross-cuts accurately.

I suppose you could say I am in the camp that loves the Incra. haha..

[Alan Schaffter]

Dan, the gauge as supplied by INCRA should be dead-on. Not trying to criticize but here are some comments about your points:




1) The fence is too long to be moved to the right miter gauge slot without loosening bolts and moving it over.

That is true of most miter gauges with extended fences. You don't get something (long fence) for nothing (must slide it). For a quick cut with the gauge on the opposite side of the blade you can always rotate the gauge so you are looking at the face and holding the stock against it.


1a) Moving the fence upsets the ruler on the fence, so you have to recalibrate it if you ever move it to the right slot.

True of all long fence miter miter gauges, most of which don't even have rulers.


2) You need a special hex screwdriver to use the fence extension. Why couldn't they have put a thumbscrew on this? (I know I can get my own, but it should have come with one)

I'll give you that one. I suspect it is partially a clearance issue. One reason may also be knobs are easy to loosen, but it is just as easy to forget to tighten fully.


3) The hex head screws holding the fence in place are a different size than the hex head screws mentioned in #2, so you need TWO allen wrenches for this thing.

Not sure about this one. Aren't both hex drivers supplied? I don't have the INCRA, but I normally don't often move the fence on my gauge- I'll move the sacrificial face but not the fence. As has been mentioned, some folks have replaced the extension set screws with small T-knobs.


4) Although everyone says "Incra stuff is dead accurate", I was making a very wide picture frame a few days ago, and found that the 45* stop was off by about 0.1* (after wrecking several workpieces)

What did you use to determine the stop was off by .1? Are you sure the miter bar adjusters are set properly? Are your sure your saw's miter slots are within spec? There are a number of reasons, including operator technique, that can result in that amount of error in a wide miter. If I'm not mistaken, the INCRA detents are CNC laser cut so every one should be dead on. Was the verier set properly? I suppose your gauge could have a machining flaw, but I haven't read about any other folks with a similar problem and the 45 stop is a popular, often used one.


5) Why couldn't they have textured the fence face just a little?

While I can't say for sure, I suspect it is hard to anodize a textured face, at least one textured enough to keep a board from slipping- it would need to be an expensively milled face. Applied textured faces often start to peel after a very short time and if not applied properly can have uneven surfaces and easily introduce errors. You will often see experienced woodworkers use both a stop and clamps to hold the board to the fence when they want to make precise 45 miters and 90 cross cuts.


Anyhow - my point is that I feel this is a poorly engineered product. I would highly recommend anyone considering this product to try it out at the store, first. Imagine how you'd use it to set and make cuts, then consider how much set-up time would be involved, etc.

Speed and precision don't often go together when working with your hands. Careful tool setup is key to precision. If you have ever watched David Marks, you will see he is slow and deliberate making adjustments AND making the cut.

I think you might be a little too quick to judge so harshly. I know the INCRA designer, and he puts some serious thought and quality assurance into his products. They are well engineered AND manufactured and have been recognized so by woodworkers and the woodworking media. See what folks like Tom Hintz (New Woodworker.com) have to say.

It may be that your methods of work do not match the features and level of precision possible with this gauge. If you need to make a lot of quick 45 miters and 90 cross cuts and quickly switch between the two you might be better off with fixed crosscut and miter sleds.

Bottom line, examine your own techniques, make sure you are using the gauge like it is designed to be used. Use it for a few more months, then give us an update.

[Jim Summers]

I have an Incra 1000SE miter gauge. I noticed that workpieces are sliding a little bit along the fence when I cut them, resulting in non-square cuts.

I'd like to put some adhesive-backed sandpaper on the fence to add some friction, but I'm not sure that will work with this fence. The attached stop block thing has little protrusions that fit into grooves in the fence (so that even a sharp miter will be "stopped" at the correct length, supposedly), but that means I can't just glue sandpaper to the fence, as it will cover the groves.

Anyone come up with a good solution to this problem? :confused:

I haven't had a lot of problems with mine, but I will probably just swing by a BORG and get a cone shaped wire brush and chuck it in my cordless and run over the face of the frame a bit. It should give a nice smooth texture to it that will help in holding the wood.

I haven't done it yet but I do not see why it won't work.

HTH