cutting vinyl self adhesive material

[stan kern]

I ordered some vinyl adhesive backed to see if i could cut out some graphic designs for boats and autos.
I have been told about the fumes that come off vinyl but with ventilation in place it should be ok,but has this been done .
I have seen this graphic type work done with blades but not a laser.
Also some are suggesting a polyester vinyl

[Nancy Laird]

So? Is there a question somewhere in there, Stan?

[Rodne Gold]

Stan , you can kiss cut the occasional piece of PVC based sign vinyl with your laser without fear - do it all day long or try to raster engrave it and you are in for corrosion in your machine.
There are some issues with laser cutting vinyl sign stuff and that is that you need to be really careful with focus and use magnets to get the stuff flat flat flat, you musnt burn thru the backing at all , you need just enough to vaporise the pvc. (you know this from normal vinyl cutting) , the laser also has an effect of melting the vinyl , so you dont get the sharpest of cuts like a blade , it also can melt the PVC to the backing at the cut line which is not a problem unless you engrave into the backing and the melt then goes into the unwaxed paper channel you have made and its VERY difficult to weed in that case.
You can get polyester based sign vinyl from 3m at a hugely more expensive price than normal stuff (most of the mirror type vinyls are also polyester)
You can tell if vinyl is "laser friendly" by trying to stretch a piece - if it can't stretch , it's prolly ok.
I have cut many sheets of vinyl on my machines over a 10yr period and never had a related issue at all.
We use the polyester based vinyl to cover brass and stainless steel sheets , we put it in the laser and kiss cut big areas and raster away more detailed stuff - we then sandblast it to get rid of the residue left from lasering (the polyester vinyl withstands blasting - and in fact in this way you can do frosting or deepish engraving on marble , granite , tiles and glass if you have a sandblaster)
We then put it in our own home made hot ferric chloride spray etcher and etch the plate and then paint fill it.
Like this one

[Joe Hayes]

Stan - Do not take this in the wrong way but, why would you use a piece of equipment that cost what a laser cost to cut vinyl that a vinyl cutter will plot easier and better and a much lower cost. A laser does what it does very well but it cannot to everything well. If vinyl is a market you want to get into and be competitive then get a plotter that does a great job of cutting it. I would not disagree with Rodney because he has be successful doing it but, putting anything in my lasers that contains PVC is not something I am willing to risk. It can and will do damage to the laser if all conditions are not just right. It also can do damage to you if conditions are right. Really not worth the risk and not a good way to cut vinyl. You might want to give this some further thought.

[Mike Null]

I have cut and rastered vinyl in my machine in small amounts but Joe is 100% correct with his suggestion.

[Larry Bratton]

Given that one can purchase a vinyl cutting plotter for cheap (less than a grand) these days, that is the way to go. I love Oracal 651 as a vinyl but I cut it on my plotter. I have made 1000's of signs with reflective polyester based media by laser cutting acrylic with it already applied. I have kiss cut small amounts of pvc based vinyl from time to time, but I sure don't make a practice of it.

[Joe Pelonio]

The only time I cut vinyl on the laser is when doing small acrylic letters,
and the color has to match other things done with vinyl. With larger acrylic lettering I will apply it after cutting the acrylic on the laser, then hand trim
it. Poly based, and mylars, like gloss or brushed gold and silver are not an issue for such work. I agree with the others, that for just vinyl to be used as lettering/graphics a plotter is the way top go.

[stan kern]

Before i read all the comments i tried a few samples and it cut fine at a very low power ,with air pressure and ventilation.
I also found it cutting clean but if the cut is small when you remove it from the backing its difficult to apply properly.I did realize you are not to use a pvc because of the fumes but not damaging the laser.I had asked the supplier for a vinyl adhesive backed that could be cut on a laser.
All the tests i ran, cut it fine ,except on the honey comb there was a reflection and the cut was not perfect,i then put a thin metal sheet and masking taped the 8x10 vinyl and it cut fine , edges were good,but you are all scaring me . I did conclude that if i were to do this it would have to be over 5 inch in size as then it can be handled after the backing was removed ,smaller letters distorted without the backing .(after removal of the backing)
Why this material, well i just want to be able to use any media in the laser but i am wrong by the sounds of your threads.
Suppliers mentioned to use a polyester vinyl not sure what i have ,it does not stretch to much its from flexcon V400 f black v-465 pfw

[paul mott]

I did conclude that if i were to do this it would have to be over 5 inch in size as then it can be handled after the backing was removed ,smaller letters distorted without the backing .(after removal of the backing)

Sounds like you are not using transfer tape ?

Paul.

[stan kern]

No ,not really sure what you mean but i just fix the vinyl sheet to the laser table using masking tape on the 4 corners,are you saying to use a transfer tape over the work area ,this sounds like it would help then on the transfer of graphics to whatever i am making the lettering for .
The main thing here is i do not want to damage my machine as it was said just kiss it and it should be ok

stan

[Dan Hintz]

Stan,

Vinyl transfer tape is a low-tack tape, sold in rolls from 2"-24" wide, that you press over the top of vinyl after it has been weeded. The tape allows you to transfer the vinyl design off of the original vinyl backer sheet without worrying about portions of the design shifting.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . I had asked the supplier for a vinyl adhesive backed that could be cut on a laser.
All the tests i ran, cut it fine ,except on the honey comb there was a reflection and the cut was not perfect,i then put a thin metal sheet and masking taped the 8x10 vinyl and it cut fine , edges were good,but you are all scaring me . I did conclude that if i were to do this it would have to be over 5 inch in size as then it can be handled after the backing was removed ,smaller letters distorted without the backing .(after removal of the backing)
Why this material, well i just want to be able to use any media in the laser but i am wrong by the sounds of your threads.
Suppliers mentioned to use a polyester vinyl not sure what i have ,it does not stretch to much its from flexcon V400 f black v-465 pfw

It sounds like you are cutting right through the vinyl - since you are having reflections from the honeycomb. For most vinyl cutting that would be impractical, as you want to kiss cut (which means cut through the material but not the paper.) In actual fact you can go a bit into the paper as long as it does not all fall apart after lasering.

If you have a group of letters to cut, for a sign for example, you would kiss cut the letters, weed (peel away the scrap), and then use the transfer tape to move the group of letters to another substrate (the sign board.) The transfer tape is applied to the weeded vinyl, you peel the rear paper liner off the vinyl exposing the adhesive, and then position it on the sign blank. Then rub it down. Seems you are trying to handle loose pieces of vinyl after the paper liner is removed - you will not have success doing this. The transfer tape is just a wide roll of masking tape with appropriate tack (stickiness). It will prevent the vinyl pieces from curling up, distorting and sticking to themselves.

With a laser there is a shortcut method that sometimes works - apply vinyl directly to the sign blank, laser right through the vinyl, and then weed. You need to be careful not to damage the sign blank during weeding. Dental picks can help. It must be done asap before the adhesive develops full strength. This works on acrylic and painted metal blanks.

Don't try to order polyester vinyl; that is an oxymoron. Call it polyester sign material. If it is polyester it is not vinyl and vice versa. You will just confuse the supplier and it is hard to say what you will get. But polyester material will have limited availability compared to vinyl.

Different people have different opinions on the risk in cutting sign vinyl. The actual volume of PVC generated when cutting 2-3 mil material is pretty small. You will have to make your own assessment of the risk. With a good exhaust system, a clear path of exhaust air from material to exhaust port, and air assist it is viable for ocassional production. You should clean all the metal components after lasering to remove acidic residue.

For high volume, a cutting plotter is warranted, but if you are doing a few sign jobs here and there you can do a lot with the laser.

You might want to see if you can find a few videos of vinyl application on the Internet so you can see what is "normal" and then adapt it to the laser.

[stan kern]

This is great i have a feel for whats going on and i'll do all recomendations
I only want to do the work with vinyl the odd time so this is workable.
The transfer tape is a real plus .
The laser is a great machine still impressing me with what it can do

[Larry Bratton]

A vinyl cutting plotter can really be a profitable addition though. You should consider it. Once you learn some of the tricks to putting it on, you can do all kinds of things with it. Vehicles are quite profitable. Who knows, you might even get into doing wraps, get some serious money for that work.