Seeking advice re joiner-planer combo machine

[Frank Pellow]

After a lot of investigation, including the advice that I received here in the thread entitled "8" Jointer and 15" Planer -Delta or General?" at: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13485, I had more or less decided to purchase the:


Delta DJ20D8" jointer X5 37-365X
and the


Delta 15" planer X5 22-780X
Today, I followed the advice that Chris Padilla gave me in that thread and marked out the possible locations of my equipment (using full-size cardboard cutouts). As a result of this effort, I am now at least thinking about purchasing a "fancy/schmancy European combo machine" (in the words of Chris). Not a full combo machine, but rather a combo jointer-planer. My preliminary investigation turns up only two such machines that have reasonable Canadian support and pricing. By the way, Mini-Max is almost unheard of here and the sales guys I contacted in the US were no help at all.

The two machines that seem to be worth consideration are:


Robland XSDB 310

Rojek MSP310M
I would appreciate any comments that anyone can provide about either or both of these machines.

By the way, I think that there is only about a 25% chance that I will purchase either of them.

[Jamie Buxton]

Frank --

Yeah, I went through the same process about five years ago, and bought a combo jointer-thicknesser. For me, it has certainly turned out to be a good choice. I'm afraid I don't have personal experience with the two units you mention. Mine's a 12" Hammer (Felder's more affordable brand). It works just fine. Just to make sure you haven't missed any in your search for Canadian suppliers, the brands distributed in the US are Felder, Hammer, Mini-Max, Robland, and Rojek. They're all made in Europe. There's also a Chinese company selling what looks to be a clone of the late Inca 10" jointer-thicknesser. I maybe can dig up the name if you're interested. And Woodworkers Supply was selling one from Sicar (an Italian company), but I don't see it on their web site right now.

Jamie

[Curt Harms]

After a lot of investigation, including the advice that I received here in the thread entitled "8" Jointer and 15" Planer -Delta or General?" at: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13485, I had more or less decided to purchase the:


Delta DJ20D8" jointer X5 37-365X
and the


Delta 15" planer X5 22-780X
Today, I followed the advice that Chris Padilla gave me in that thread and marked out the possible locations of my equipment (using full-size cardboard cutouts). As a result of this effort, I am now at least thinking about purchasing a "fancy/schmancy European combo machine" (in the words of Chris). Not a full combo machine, but rather a combo jointer-planer. My preliminary investigation turns up only two such machines that have reasonable Canadian support and pricing. By the way, Mini-Max is almost unheard of here and the sales guys I contacted in the US were no help at all.

The two machines that seem to be worth consideration are:


Robland XSDB 310

Rojek MSP310M
I would appreciate any comments that anyone can provide about either or both of these machines.

By the way, I think that there is only about a 25% chance that I will purchase either of them.

The ability to joint stock as wide as one can plane certainly has something to recommend it. The Rojek isn't priced too badly as these machines go, but the jointer tables seem short, at least on the msp310. I recall they have another 12" unit with somewhat longer tables. It'd be interesting to talk to someone who's used the msp310m to see if table length is adequate.

Curt

[Frank Pellow]

Frank --

Yeah, I went through the same process about five years ago, and bought a combo jointer-thicknesser. For me, it has certainly turned out to be a good choice. I'm afraid I don't have personal experience with the two units you mention. Mine's a 12" Hammer (Felder's more affordable brand). It works just fine. Just to make sure you haven't missed any in your search for Canadian suppliers, the brands distributed in the US are Felder, Hammer, Mini-Max, Robland, and Rojek. They're all made in Europe. There's also a Chinese company selling what looks to be a clone of the late Inca 10" jointer-thicknesser. I maybe can dig up the name if you're interested. And Woodworkers Supply was selling one from Sicar (an Italian company), but I don't see it on their web site right now.

Jamie
There is a Felder/Hammer distributor in Canada and I considered the unit that I think you have (the Hammer A3 31). It is priced at about $4,500 Cdn before taxes and that is just too much money for me to justify spending.

[Chris Padilla]

Frank,

For me, it came down to space. I just didn't have the room for two separate machines. Further, if I was going to get one, I wanted one for the ages and thus got the monster 16" one.

Perhaps in another house (you never know, I guess) I would have such room but I'm not there and now was the time and now was the money so I did it.

MiniMax has done very well in general and it is a shame you can't at least get one of those in Canada.

Keep your eyes open for used stuff as well. Best of luck! :)

[Dennis Peacock]

I have the Robland X31 and the J/P part of it is the exact setup as the seperate J/P. Now grant it, they have upgraded them some since I purchased mine in 1999, but I have used the J/P part of the X31 extensively and still like it very much to this day. :D

[Jamie Buxton]

There is a Felder/Hammer distributor in Canada and I considered the unit that I think you have (the Hammer A3 31). It is priced at about $4,500 Cdn before taxes and that is just too much money for me to justify spending.

Yeah, these things are not cheap. (However, the combined prices of those two Delta X5 machines you mention are within $200 of what I paid for the A3-31.) I agonized about buying it for months. Now, I cannot imagine how I built anything without it. I can buy roughsawn lumber and mill it to exactly what a piece needs, instead of designing a piece around the dimensions I could buy s4s.

[Frank Pellow]

Yeah, these things are not cheap. (However, the combined prices of those two Delta X5 machines you mention are within $200 of what I paid for the A3-31.) I agonized about buying it for months. Now, I cannot imagine how I built anything without it. I can buy roughsawn lumber and mill it to exactly what a piece needs, instead of designing a piece around the dimensions I could buy s4s.
I am afraid that the gap in Canada is much more than $200. It is $1,470. :(

Leaving out taxes and shipping, I can get the two Delta machines for $2,750 (cdn) whereas the Hammer A3-31 is $4,500 (cdn) -a gap of $1,750 (cdn). At today's conversion rate, that is a gap of $1,470 (us) and the gap only gets bigger with taxes and shippig.

[Frank Pellow]

I have the Robland X31 and the J/P part of it is the exact setup as the seperate J/P. Now grant it, they have upgraded them some since I purchased mine in 1999, but I have used the J/P part of the X31 extensively and still like it very much to this day. :D
One thing that worries me about these combo jointer-planers is their very small infeed and outfeed tables. How do you get around that problem Dennis?

[Monte Milanuk]

There's also a Chinese company selling what looks to be a clone of the late Inca 10" jointer-thicknesser. I maybe can dig up the name if you're interested.


Would that be the Rikon 10" combo jointer/planer here? (http://www.right-tool.com/rikrp10plan.html)

Sounds like it might do the job for a small shop tight on space/money (stand-alone 6" jointer and 12-13" planer cost about the same). Can't find anyone who will actually confess to using one, though. Makes me somewhat hesitant to take the plunge myself.

Monte

[Jamie Buxton]

Would that be the Rikon 10" combo jointer/planer here? (http://www.right-tool.com/rikrp10plan.html)

Sounds like it might do the job for a small shop tight on space/money (stand-alone 6" jointer and 12-13" planer cost about the same). Can't find anyone who will actually confess to using one, though. Makes me somewhat hesitant to take the plunge myself.

Monte

Yeah, that's the one. Like you, I haven't found anybody who's used one. I wish somebody would take the plunge and tell us all about it.

[Richard McComas]

Yeah, that's the one. Like you, I haven't found anybody who's used one. I wish somebody would take the plunge and tell us all about it.


The Rikon looks remarkably close to the same design as the Inca J/P I had for several years. At the price they are asking for the Rikon I doubt that it has near the quality and precision the Inca has.

While the Inca was a good machine the tables were just to short for cabinet making and the depth of cut was limited on wider stock. All in all the Inca was pretty light weigh and I suspect the Recon is the same or even more so.

I ended up replacing the Inca with a 16” felder J\P and could not be happier with my choice.

IMHO no matter which J/P combo you look at get one with an electric lift for the planer table. When I first bought my Felder I didn’t get the electric lift but added it later, now, I wouldn’t even consider a J/P combo with out it but that just my opinion, I know there is a lot of machines being use with out the electric lift but it is something to give a lot of consideration to.

[Frank Pellow]

Yeah, that's the one. Like you, I haven't found anybody who's used one. I wish somebody would take the plunge and tell us all about it.
I won't be the one. The machine is too small for me.

[Frank Pellow]

...
IMHO no matter which J/P combo you look at get one with an electric lift for the planer table. When I first bought my Felder I didn’t get the electric lift but added it later, now, I wouldn’t even consider a J/P combo with out it but that just my opinion, I know there is a lot of machines being use with out the electric lift but it is something to give a lot of consideration to.
I have brochures for both the Robland and the Rojek and neither one mentions an electric lift option. :confused:

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn’t even consider a J/P combo with out it but that just my opinion, I know there is a lot of machines being use with out the electric lift but it is something to give a lot of consideration to.Strangely enough, I haven't found this to be an issue with my FS350. Changeovers, including cranking the planer table are two minutes or less. But I can see that the electric lift would be convenient to have!

BTW, Frank...there is a Canadian dealer for Mini Max and you can get the contact information from Mini Max USA. The border is apparently "real" and the US company cannot cross it for some long list of reasons.

[Steve Stube]

Frank, you are looking at table saw advice too! What does this unit do for you, anything?

The M316 5 Function Universal Woodworker
http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=33&stockref=M316 (http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=33&stockref=M316)

I was searching to see what I could find on my CKM Universal Combination Woodworker when I ran across this link and thought I would throw it in the pot.

[Jamie Buxton]

Like Jim, I do okay without an electric lift on my combi.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Frank,
I believe the onlycompany with the electric lift option on the J/P is Felder. I have the MM FS41 and never really miss an electric lift. There is a numeric dial indicator that is very easy to read and makes coming back to a predetermined thickness very easy and dead on. The table length is never a problem. I regularly plane 8'-0" plus boards with no snipe. If you are truly limited in space, are looking into a table saw also then a full blown combo will truly fit your needs. Guess which company I think is the best!;)

[Richard McComas]

Strangely enough, I haven't found this to be an issue with my FS350. Changeovers, including cranking the planer table are two minutes or less. But I can see that the electric lift would be convenient to have!

BTW, Frank...there is a Canadian dealer for Mini Max and you can get the contact information from Mini Max USA. The border is apparently "real" and the US company cannot cross it for some long list of reasons.



Just as a side note, there is a thread in the archives on the Felder's owners group were a fellow made his own electric lift using an electric drill.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank, you are looking at table saw advice too! What does this unit do for you, anything?

The M316 5 Function Universal Woodworker
http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=33&stockref=M316 (http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=33&stockref=M316)

I was searching to see what I could find on my CKM Universal Combination Woodworker when I ran across this link and thought I would throw it in the pot.
It looks interesting but, as far as I can tell, it is only available in the United Kingdom. The price there (including taxes) converted to Candian dollars is $5,325 which would be worth considering if the machine is good.