Time to ask for help

[Dahl Troy Perry]

Ok I give up !! Here is my broplem I have trouble cutting out the id of the bowl it always want to grab I've tryed all tools that I have .I only have trouble on dry wood can cut green with no trouble. Do I need to turn at the upper end of my speed range? Do I need a different tool? Can anyone give a idea to try? Here is the cherry bowl that grabed you can see the gouges the bowl is 6' dia by 5" deep did not have much to take out of ID maybe 3/8 per side. Here are the tools that I tryed two scrapers the bowl gouge could not get a good angle to feed it right (if I was useing it right). My freinds non woodworking tell me to throw the wood lathe away and get a CNC lathe that I can program to cut anything. It just burns me that I can't conquer this! HELP

[Bernie Weishapl]

Dahl your form looks good and wall thickness to me looks good. Is that a spindle gouge beside the bowl gouge. Not good inside a bowl. I don't use a scraper either because for me I would blow every bowl I used it on. I just don't like it. I use two gouges on deep bowls like this. One bowl gouge with a Irish grind and one with a conventional grind (P & N). I do the top half first leaving the meat in the bottom half for stability. I get my wall and lip thickness where I want them. I do not go back for one more cut because that always bites me to.:mad: Then I work on the bottom half and finish that. I then blend the inside where I left off from the top into the bottom. Your final cuts when doing the top or the bottom must be with sharp gouges. I have also started using a oneway bowl steady to help give it stability when blending. Hope this helps.

[David E Keller]

I don't think speed is the problem although I tend to turn something that size at about 1500 to 1800 RPM if it's well balanced.

That's a fairly tough form being about as deep as it is wide. The bevel on the bowl gouge looks pretty long for making the turn and getting the bottom of the bowl. That shape is one that requires a pretty short bevel for turning the bottom if I'm gonna do it with a bowl gouge.

That large scraper should do the trick, but I'd use it in a trailing position(tip angled down) with it turned about 45 degrees counterclockwise... Shear scraping. Make sure it's sharp and use a light touch.

The other tip I might add is to finish turning the rim to final thickness before moving further down into the form. That helps eliminate some of the vibration that I tend to get near the rim. Too late for this one, but it might save you some grief down the road.

I don't remember a skew from the tool pic, but Mr. Hart recently posted a pictorial for using a skew to take light cuts near the rim.

[Thom Sturgill]

Try practicing with a shallower form for a while. Do a few 2-3" bowls where the access is easier and then move into deeper bowls. Do 1"- 1 1/2" at a time getting the wall thickness right and then remove the center waste. Rinse and repeat until you get to the bottom. Any problems blending - get out the 80 grit gouge.

If you haven't watched the videos by Grumbine and Jimmy Clewes, do so. Then try to get someone with some experience to work with you, they can spot problems in your tool use that you can't see yourself.

[Dennis Ford]

In the first picture, it looks like the wood had deflected during the cut causing some chatter marks. The easiest way to prevent this is to leave more mass near the bottom of the bowl until the upper portion is finished, then do not attempt to return to the rim area.
Tool presentation, sharp edges and light cuts will make a big difference also.

[steven carter]

Dahl,

I think steep sided bowls like this one are more difficult when using a swept back bowl gouge. I use a traditional grind on a Sorby for this type of bowl. I live a couple hours from you, but if you like, you could bring the bowl down and we could try to fix it up. PM me if you are interested.

Steve

[John Keeton]

I am going to go out on a limb here, and show my inexperience. In my travels down this road (read - in my slide into this vortex!:D) I have relied heavily on Raffan's book for a basic understanding of bowl turning generally. Even with that, I have gravitated to HFs rather than bowls.

But, in looking through the hundreds of pics in that book, it is rare to find a pleasing form that has such a sharp transition as this one.

I am not saying it is not a proper form. It just seems that the more popular, and historically accepted, forms have a much smoother transitional curve, and adhere to those fair curves found in nature. And, more importantly, those curves seem much easier to accomplish with standard turning tools.

The question Dahl presents relates to this one bowl, and some great advice has been given. But, I think Thom and David have some good thoughts for the next bowl. I would add just this - stick with what has worked for centuries, and the problems will be fewer.

This from a guy who has turned maybe 20 bowls total!!:eek::confused: So, take it for what it is worth - probably not much.

[Barry Elder]

My first thought to anyone asking for help is to suggest finding a mentor who lives reasonably close. Dahl, in your case, the nearest club is in Zionsville, north of Indianapolis. If you want to shorten your learning curve, according to the AAW, the President of the Central Indiana Club is Dick Gerard and his phone is 317-841-9312, email is woodturn4@comcast.net. There are many members there of vast experience and one of them just might be a nearby neighbor. It appears to me that you might benefit from a little technique lesson and some sharpening practice. Give it a shot! What's one phone call compared to days and weeks of frustration?! Have a GREAT DAY!

[Bob Haverstock]

Hi Dahl,

Just a couple of observations, I didn't see the steady rest set up or the length of handles on the tools.

If you are going to reach into a bowl that far, a curved steady rest that reaches into the bowl would be an asset. As tool overhang increases the chances of catching increase also, LONG handled tools are more stable and catch somewhat less ( you have more leveage thus more control). Having a tool hang several inches over the steady rest is not a good recipe. A narrow cutting edge will catch less also.

Oh, check and make sure the head stock is tight againt the bed bars. Flex is not a good thing.

Good luck, play safe, and have fun.

Bob Haverstock



Ok I give up !! Here is my broplem I have trouble cutting out the id of the bowl it always want to grab I've tryed all tools that I have .I only have trouble on dry wood can cut green with no trouble. Do I need to turn at the upper end of my speed range? Do I need a different tool? Can anyone give a idea to try? Here is the cherry bowl that grabed you can see the gouges the bowl is 6' dia by 5" deep did not have much to take out of ID maybe 3/8 per side. Here are the tools that I tryed two scrapers the bowl gouge could not get a good angle to feed it right (if I was useing it right). My freinds non woodworking tell me to throw the wood lathe away and get a CNC lathe that I can program to cut anything. It just burns me that I can't conquer this! HELP

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Your tools are fine. I use scrapers a lot, since I like to make boxes, with steep sides like your bowl. If you do use the scraper, keep the cut above the centerline of the bowl, so in the event of a catch, it won't be explosive. If you use a scraper on the outside, keep the cut below centerline.

Only turn as fast as you feel safe... I have not turned faster than 1250 yet. I just don't feel safe yet. Speed is your friend though, the faster, the better your cut.

Just my $0.02.

[Dahl Troy Perry]

Thanks all for the input I think that Tool presentation is my main problem. I have to amit that I have not watched any videos just trial and err ( lot of err).One thing that David Keller said about scrapers I’ve just laid them flat on the tool rest about on center and this has been where a lot of my grabs have been. As for the gouge it is a sorby ½ I have not been able to ride the heal of the tool and make it cut this I know is tool presentation problem not the tool.

[Brendan Stemp]

Any tool will 'grab' if you try to take too much wood off at any one time. Using a scraper is a very aggressive way to take wood off and will 'grab' if you try to take cuts any bigger than approx. 1/8". Unless, of course, you put an extra long handle on your tool in which case the tool wont grab but the bowl might come off the lathe. So you need to make sure you are taking small cuts; approx 1/8" even with big scrapers. Shape the scraper so it doesn't conform to the shape of the curve so you can take smaller cuts. The reason we have big scrapers is so we have big sections of steel that wont vibrate when hanging over the tool rest a long way. Even the bowl gouge will grab if you try to take too big a cut. So take smaller cuts or present the cutting edge to the rotation of the wood at 45 degrees (approx) (make sure bevel is rubbing on wood) so you will be using more of a slicing action and all grabs will disappear. If you cant do this then cut where the cutting edge is smallest; ie at the bottom of the curve. Hope this makes sense. Good luck

[Steve Trauthwein]

Dahl,

I think your major problem is going late to the edge. As others have suggested, leave some mass in the middle and work down the sides and inch at a time. Get that area the way you want it and don't go back. Do the next inch and blend the two areas, then don't go back!

Some of the worst catches I have had are trying to clean up the edge of a deep piece that had the mass of wood taken out. If you want an idea of what you are up against then measure the distance between the edges at 180°.

Regards, Steve

[David Woodruff]

What David keller says works for me. Scraper in trailng edge mode, bowl gouge in trailing edge mode, both very sharp.

[Thomas Canfield]

I would suggest that an additional bowl gouge (1/2" or larger for that depth) ground at a flatter angle would help when making the transition and doing the bottom. I have a 3/8" dedicated to bottoms, and a 5/8" Thompson U that I need to sharpen and put in a handle for the same purpose.