Another MKII overview

[John Miliunas]

I think that maybe Dave Richards may be looking for THIS thread!

OK, some of you may know that I've been hanging out a bit on the "Dark Side". :eek: Yes, it's true. It's also true that I'm having a blast! :D Now, that side of the WW equation requires not only tail-less tools, but many of them have to stay quite sharp in order to use them properly. To the best of my knowledge, carbide tipped hand tools are not to be found, which in turn means, one must incorporate the sharpening of cutting tool edges on a regular basis. Sending everything out for sharpening just don't cut it. After some serious soul-searching, I decided that I would make a corded tool part of my hand tool effort. That tool would be the Veritas MK II Sharpening system. :)

Some of this may be a "rerun" of a couple other threads and for that I apologize. So, what do I think of the MK II? In a word: Fantastic! Awesome! Wonderful! Fast! Easy! Efficient! Brilliant! Ahhh...OK. so that was more than one word! :D (Did I mention fantastic?!)

Setup was quick and painless. Adjust the motor tension on the belt driving the platter, install the platter, the guide rail and stick the various grits of paper on two individual discs, which then attach to the platter. The instructions are pretty clear and loaded with information germaine to sharpening.

The first thing I tried was an el'cheapo Marples (Borg "edition", no less.) 1" chisel. It's supposed to be ground to 25*, but was off. I used the 80 grit to get it back down to the 25*, and although I went clear up the entire ground area, one doesn't need to. Flattened the back on it first. Here again, I found one more reason those chisels were cheap. A very concave spot on the back, running clear up the middle. Once flattened, I continued with the primary bevel. Once done with that, swapped out the discs (went to a 3mm thickness disc, down from the 1st 4mm). The differences in grit and disc thickness are what automatically give you a micro bevel edge. Took it off the rest, knocked the wire off the edge and was cutting hair off my forearm! :D Worked slick! The whole process for my very first was all of about 7 minutes or so. For that system, long, but I was going at it slowly. Once satisfied with that one, I moved down to the 3/4" chisel. This one's bevel was darn-near dead on, so I skipped the 80 grit. Without having to establish a totally different bevel, plus already having got a bit of the feel for it, this puppy took all of about two minutes! Went from the original and serious factory grind marks to mirror edge! (and more forearm hairs!) :rolleyes:

Know something? Sharp tools are really neat! Heck, even with the 25* bevel, I was easily paring off the end-grain on a piece of Hard Maple. So, in the final analysis, if one has this system, no excuse remains for using dull tools! It's great! :)

The pics in the order shown:
1) The chisel prior to flattening and sharpening.
2) Flattened back.
3) Sharpened business end of said chisel.
4) The MK II itself.
5) The locking de-tented shaft for the tool rest. Once the blade is "indexed" for proper approach, the bevel is set by going to the appropriate setting on the riser. Works great!

Thanks for taking a peek, all! :cool:

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for the thorough review John.

It looks like I need to add yet another tool from Lee Valley to my "Tools I Want" list.

[Glenn Clabo]

John...
Thanks for the review...I've been staring (is drooling a better word?) at the machine for a while now.

But ya got to stop soon or your arms will get cold over over the long winter.

[Michael Stafford]

John,
Nice review. How hot does the metal get during sharpening? How long does a sandpaper disc last? Are they expensive? Only source LV?

[Tyler Howell]

That electron burner won't save you! You have been seduced by the enlightened side. Resist if you must, but the slope is steep and you will be assimilated:p
Congrats dude as much as I 've enjoyed hand tuning my own sharps and I wouldn't trade the experience, I still have a big pile of iron to beat into submission. The LV record player is on the long wish list.:cool:

[Mark Singer]

Johm,

Very nice review and excellent tool. That should keep everything sharp....and this one has a cord.:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Nice review, John. Lee Valley/Veritas really makes some fine products.

But I'm curious if you feel it will still be appropriate to use waterstones to really polish those cutting tools. The "finish" I get with my 8000 stone is like a mirror and even I can tell the difference between it's cutting action and what I used to end up with through other sharpening methods. A quick re-honing also brings back the edge in a few seconds during use. What are your thoughts on this?

[John Miliunas]

Nice review, John. Lee Valley/Veritas really makes some fine products.

But I'm curious if you feel it will still be appropriate to use waterstones to really polish those cutting tools. The "finish" I get with my 8000 stone is like a mirror and even I can tell the difference between it's cutting action and what I used to end up with through other sharpening methods. A quick re-honing also brings back the edge in a few seconds during use. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks to all for the comments! :)

Michael, I can't say about the sandpaper wear, yet. Only did a couple tools, thus far, and very little appreciable wear to this point. The PSA paper is $3.00/sht. from LV, but I'm planning on checking with Klingspor, as the 80 grit, which came with the machine, even had a Klingspor sticker on it!

Frank, Glenn, Tyler...I'd really recommend putting this contraption on your "short lists"! What a tremendous time-saver! :)

Mark, Satan will be hosting the Stanley Cup before I get rid of my corded friends! :D

Jim, I haven't had the chance yet to make the comparison. I don't own any stones, but I am setup for the manual mode of "Scary Sharp" to extreme fine grits. I intend to give it a shot and see. Thus far, though, you DO get mirror finishes straight off the MK II! :D I did, however, go one real quick step further and bring the chisels over to my el-cheapo buffing wheel, loaded up some white rouge and gave them an additional quick buff. Excellent results! I suspect that cutters coming off a complete regiment of stones or SS, *might* perform better, but as I see it, this system is so, so very quick to use, that touching them up "on the fly" is a no-hassle solution for great performance from those tools. Kind of like having the grinder and jig setup next to your turning area, so that you can frequently hit that Ellsworth on the grinder and continue turning with a sharp tool. Very nice! :cool:

[Jason Tuinstra]

John, I'm so glad to hear that you went this direction. I knew you would love it if you got it. I don't know if you read it yet in the book, but they suggest putting some polishing compound on one of the disks to "kick it up a knotch." I haven't done this yet, but I have the extra disks to do this with so I might give it a go for the next round. Be sure to let us/me know if you find some better deals on disks.

One question, the first picture that you post is with the chisel set in the middle of the jig. That was just for the pic right? Otherwise you might not get a square edge - I know this because being the doaf that I am, I didn't read the destructions first and was wondering how in the world I was supposed to get a square edge. Duhhhh!!!! Sometimes I find myself falling into the alpha-male trap and need to be humbled. I see in the second picture that the chisel is in the right place in the jig for a square edge. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify.

Congrats!!!

[John Miliunas]

One question, the first picture that you post is with the chisel set in the middle of the jig. That was just for the pic right? Otherwise you might not get a square edge - I know this because being the doaf that I am, I didn't read the destructions first and was wondering how in the world I was supposed to get a square edge. Duhhhh!!!! Sometimes I find myself falling into the alpha-male trap and need to be humbled. I see in the second picture that the chisel is in the right place in the jig for a square edge. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify.

Congrats!!!

Nice catch, Jason! You're absolutely correct! :) No, that is NOT where the blade is supposed to be positioned when sharpening! Just threw it in the holder for the sake of a picture. And, you're also right about the alpha-male trap: The instruction booklet for the MK II is very well done. If you purchase one of these units, READ the dern thing! :rolleyes: 'Bout the only thing you're wrong on, Jason, is my name!? :eek: That's OK...I've been called a LOT worse! :D :cool:

[Jason Tuinstra]

John, I am terribly sorry. I don't know why I want to always call you "Jim." I remember having to correct this before in replies to you. Arghhhh!!!! That's horrible. Personally, though, I'd take it as a complement. Look at all the good "Jim's" in this world. Jim Becker, Jimmy Neutron, Jimmy Hendrix, ahh... James Baker, Jimmy Carter (see the latest FWW)... Okay, I give up. I can't think of anyone else. So please accept my appology and feel free to get my name wrong anytime :D :p

[Ted Shrader]

John -

How does one go aboiut changing the grit being used? Are there several wheels or do you take one grit of paper off and put another on?

Regards,
Ted

[John Miliunas]

John -

How does one go aboiut changing the grit being used? Are there several wheels or do you take one grit of paper off and put another on?

Regards,
Ted

Ted, part of the beauty of the system is in its simplicity! You get two, trued-up discs, to which the paper is applied to. One is 4mm thick, the other 3mm. The system is designed around 4 main grits. Two for the primary bevel, two (micro-size grit) for the secondary bevel. The plates are reversible, hence all the necessary grits are ready to rock at all times. You mount the two coarser grits on the 4mm plate and the two micro grits on the 3mm plate. No physical swapping of paper on/off the plates until one is worn down. The switching of the different thickness plates is what "automatically" gives you the finer grade of cut, as well as automatically provides the proper micro-bevel! Quite simply, an ingeniously simple, but effective system! :D Previous posts on the system, gleaned the knowledge that one should have a couple extra pieces of the finer grades, as they do wear quicker. I ordered one/ea. extra with the machine. If you have other questions, I'll be happy to attempt and give you answers, albeit, with very limited experience, at this point! :cool:

[Ted Shrader]

John -

Thanks for the info. Much clearer now. Sometimes I am a llittle dense. :) :) :)

Ted

[John Miliunas]

John, I am terribly sorry. I don't know why I want to always call you "Jim." I remember having to correct this before in replies to you. Arghhhh!!!! That's horrible. Personally, though, I'd take it as a complement. Look at all the good "Jim's" in this world. Jim Becker, Jimmy Neutron, Jimmy Hendrix, ahh... James Baker, Jimmy Carter (see the latest FWW)... Okay, I give up. I can't think of anyone else. So please accept my appology and feel free to get my name wrong anytime :D :p

NO problemo there, George! :D :) You're right...I'd be in good company! :) Strangely enough, I know a LOT of guys named "John" who go by "Jack". Guess I could never figure that one out. My Grandmother named me back when I was REAL young and I've kind of taken a liking to "John". Go figure, heh? :) BTW, really happy you originally contributed that write-up on the MK II. That was one of the main criteria I went by when making my buying decision. I've seen your work and if any of it is a reflection of an assist from the MK II, I figured it was monies well spent! Thanks! :cool:

[Jason Tuinstra]

LOL :D :) :p I read the first part of your post and scrolled up to see what "George" you were responding to. I know, I'm nutz. :p :) :D Maybe a better name for me would be "Donna" - a little Car Talk (NPR radio show on Saturday mornings) reference. Have fun with the new toy John, and thanks for the words.

[Dave Richards]

Better late than never. Thanks for the post, John. Very enlightening as was the chat last night.

Thanks for sending the link, too.

What grits would you say I should order?

[John Miliunas]

Better late than never. Thanks for the post, John. Very enlightening as was the chat last night.

Thanks for sending the link, too.

What grits would you say I should order?
Yeah, enjoyed our chat, as well!:)

Not knowing for sure what to expect, I originally ordered a couple of the combination packs. In practice, I find that the finer grits are what you'll go through faster. BUT, you can prolong the life of those, as well! Upon Gene Collison's recommendation, I take the platter off the machine and hit it with some "Simple Green", let it soak for a few seconds and wipe it off. So far, I've had good results going down to the 5 micron, though Gene takes it two steps farther and goes to .5 micron and after that, he still goes off the machine and puts a final lick on it with a waterstone! :rolleyes: (You need to remember that Gene's not only a perfectionist, but also a retired machinist!!!:D ) Good luck with that once you get it and let us know how you like it!:cool:

[Steve Clardy]

Love mine. I don't believe I've ever had a sharp chisel before getting my MK2.
I got an extra tool holder also.
It is a tad tricky holding everything down, and then sliding the holder on the bar, without slipping off and ruining an edge.

[Jim Dunn]

Hey Jason, now you hurt my feelings:o

John, I only count 4 pics yet you list 5 on your first post. Am I missing something or not?

[John Miliunas]

Hey Jason, now you hurt my feelings:o

John, I only count 4 pics yet you list 5 on your first post. Am I missing something or not?
Jim, there are definitely 5 pics there! Maybe your browser didn't completely load the page. Try doing a "refresh" on the page and see what turns up.:cool:

[Glenn Clabo]

John,
I'm really getting close to pulling the trigger on this...and it sounds like you've learned a lot. Want to expand on some tricks you've learned?

[John Miliunas]

John,
I'm really getting close to pulling the trigger on this...and it sounds like you've learned a lot. Want to expand on some tricks you've learned?
"Learned a lot" is right, Glenn. In this case though, I must defer to my mentor on this unit, who happens to be fellow creeker Gene Collison.:) Drop him a line and he could give you the first-hand discoveries he's made and his improvements. :)

In general, though, here's what I learned, primarily from Gene: Make absolutely sure the tool rest is perfectly parallel with the platter. (Mine was virtually spot-on out of the box.) Make certain that you're starting with a chisel or iron with the cutting edge perfectly perpendicular to the body of the tool. I found a couple of my 'el cheapo chisels weren't and used the bench grinder to square them up. When jigging up the tool in the tool holder, be sure it is square in the jig. If you usually use several chisels a lot per project, you may want to consider an extra tool holder or two, which makes sharpening multiple tools per session quicker. Definitely get an extra platter and put an additional .5 to 5 micron grit paper on it to get an even more refined secondary bevel on the tool. For inspection of same, a loupe is recommended, though upon Gene's advice, I used a 50mm lens off my 35mm camera for a while, until I got a loupe. You can really do a much closer inspection of the final product with it. My own final step is to take the tool over to my buffing wheels and lightly hit it with some white rouge and a quick buff to make absolutely certain there are no burrs left. Also, I think it's been mentioned elsewhere, but many chisels today come with a clear lacquer coating on them, including the shaft. Be sure to take some lacquer thinner and remove the last inch or two of the clear-coat before proceeding with any sharpening, as that will just load up your paper.:)

That's kind of an overview. Your best bet is still to touch base with Gene, 'cuz this guy has it down to a science! Oh, and I say, "Pull the trigger!" It's a very nice, easy to use, quick and efficient system. BTW, I happen to know that if you order today, you're going to have a little bit of a wait, as they have apparently grown in popularity and are currently somewhat back-ordered!:cool: