Rosewood allergy

[Jeff Wittrock]

For the last couple of days I have been working on an infill plane with rosewood. This is the first time I have ever used rosewood.

I notice after using a rasp on it for some time, my face starts to burn. No rash or anything. Just feels like I doused my face with some of my favorite hot sauce.

It is pretty hot and humid here (at least for me it is), so I'm wondering if the sweat and rosewood shavings are the culprit.

Anyone else have this problem.

[Ted Calver]

I found out about my rosewood allergy after sanding a carved piece on a very hot and humid South Carolina summer day. I was sweating like crazy and everywhere the dust stuck I developed a bright red rash that lasted about a week. The dermatologist couldn't figure it out and diagnosed it as contact dermatitis. The light bulb went off in my head about a week later when I was reading an article on wood allergies. I cover up and use a respirator when I work it now :)

[george wilson]

You guys need to find a doctor who is a woodworker. I was using some VERY old mahogany that was once the interior of steamship cabins. It smelled moldy. My arms got a bit of a rash. Right away my doctor recognized it as a reaction to that wood.

When I use it again,I'll use my vacuum drop to my workbench to suck away the floating dust,and wash my arms after.

I heard about a guy who went blind for a few weeks after turning cocobolo. All those tropical woods are bad for you,many are carcinogenic. Boxwood is also.

[Wilbur Pan]

I happen to be a physician -- I'm a pediatric oncologist. What you are describing sounds exactly like a skin reaction to the rosewood, probably due mainly to the oils in the wood. As you use a rasp, you could easily cause small tiny droplets of rosewood oil to fly up into the air where it could contact your face.

The only way to deal with this is do whatever you can to prevent the dust from contacting your skin. Covering exposed skin is the best. Good dust collection wherever you are working will help a lot.

The problem with these sorts of reactions, is that there is an allergic component to the reaction, so that what may be an annoying skin irritation this time could be much more serious the next time you work with it, even if you have nothing more than mild annoying skin reactions many times in a row. The potential for a real allergic reaction is pretty high. Lie-Nielsen used to offer cocobolo handles as an option for their planes. They no longer do this, partly because too many of their workers developed cocobolo allergies.

Personally, I had a reaction on the skin on my forearms after turning a cocobolo bowl. The next time I used it I made sure my arms were completely covered, and I plan on doing this in the future.

[alex grams]

i had a similar reaction to cocobolo. It did not give me a rash, but even working on some small butterfly dovetail inlays and cutting them with a 1/8" router bit, my sinuses went into overdrive and my head got ridiculously plugged up.

[Ron Brese]

The safest way to work this material is with a downdraft device. You need to pull it down and away from you as soon as it's airborne. A hot environment just makes it worst as the moisture sticks it to your skin and I expect the salts in perspiration make the oils leach worst than usual.

You have to be really disciplined not to touch your face or wipe your brow while working this material, and make sure you wash your hands quite well when you take a bathroom break or you'll get an itch it a very sensitive place. ;) Don't ask me how I know this.:)

Ron

[Nicholas Dalberg]

"Rosewood" allergy?
Often santos "rosewood" the Macherium sp (species) is the culprit albeit that it is not a rosewood (Dalbergia sp) but only sold as such, caveat emptor. Many folk develop an allergy to Cocobolo D retusa and too a much much lesser extent other Dalbergia species. They do say that if you dont have an allergy to Cocobolo you will get aquire one eventually! It would be helpfull if you could id exactly the timber involved. Much better to stay away from that particular species, its no fun having to take steroids to dampen down the bodys reaction. Trained as a nurse and a cabinet maker with a specialism in identyfying rare timbers in furniture restoration:D hope that helps
"Use extraction or become an extractor"

[Dave Anderson NH]

Pay attention to Wilbur's comments!!!!

All members of the Dahlbergia genus (the rosewoods) are notorious for causing contact dermatistis and allergic reations. Some of the more common members of the genus are East Indian Rosewood, Brazilian Tulipwood, Cocobolo, and Bolivian Rosewood. I use all but the Bolivian for turning tool handles for my Chester Toolworks business and I always wear a 3M air powered respirator and I have a good sized dust pickup hood on the back side of the lathe to catch chips and sanding dust at the source. One of my friends claims that there are only two types of people in this world.... those who are allergic to rosewoods and those who will be. Remember that an allergy can occur at any time even if you have worked one of these particular woods without problems in the past. One you have a bad reaction good practice says you should never work with these materials again.

Take precautions or you will be sorry.

[george wilson]

As a guitar maker,I used Brazilian rosewood for decades without any dust collection system at all,hand planing and scraping and sanding it by hand,too. I was fortunate to not have a problem with it. now that I'm older,I'm very keen on not breathing wood dust any more than possible.

I didn't have the money,OR the cheap Asian dust collectors available back in the 50's and 60's,70's,or even 80's. Now,I have a decent system at home.

I urge everyone to be very careful with exotic woods.

[Montgomery Scott]

Bolivian rosewood is not a rosewood. It belongs to the Machaerium genus.

While I appreciate the fact that certain woods may be allergens or sensitizers, I wonder if there is a similarity to poison ivy. About 20% of the population is not and won't be affected by it. I've worked with several species in the dalbergia genus including cocobolo for over twenty years with no noticeable reactions. Of the 60+ species I have accumulated only two have affected me; African padauk and some African wood that I can't find any info on the dealer called mwangale (sp?). Both cause me sneezing fits. Since then I've been a regular user of my respirator.

[Andrew Gibson]

I have never used rosewood, but I have used "Brazilian Cherry" a couple of days in I started to get itchy. After about 4/5 days I realised what the cause was. There is not much you can do when you have to sand and shape a rocking chair in a 95* 90%humidity garage in Florida.
I don't think I developed a rash, just got red patches, but no hives.

I love the look of the wood but not any more that domestics, and not enough to find myself in the same itchy situation.

[Damon Stathatos]

I pretty much live in the stuff all day long...check out my 'website' or the photo below (me with some of my coco 'toothpicks'). Ours is 'real' cocobolo, dalbergia retusa. Search for damonstats sierra madre sawing.

I feel lucky to have yet to have a reaction. The worst it gets for me is a slight burning in my sinus area and that's only with very fine dust. For the most part, I keep my dust mask on and that seems to do the trick. We also have very adequate dust collection but that does little when doing fine work.

I know a lot of my customers are wary of the coco because of what they have read and heard. I have had some employees develop reactions over time to it as well and they were the ones who regularly resisted use of their masks.

I think the previous point about different sensitivities for different people is probably accurate. There's no question that there's something in there that can and does affect certain people though.

[Jeff Wittrock]

Thanks all for the suggestions and info.

Luckily I'm pretty much finished up so I'll just use a little more care. It's too bad, because this is the first time I have used rosewood and fell in love with it. I should be specific. This is Honduran Rosewood. Sorry, I don't know if it is a true rosewood or not as I am no botanist :).

As a kid I ran through poison Ivy and poison oak with abandon. Never had a problem. As an adult I was exposed to the smoke from someone burning off poison oak and I had a Massive breakout. Every since, I now break out by just looking at the stuff and have to beware. I suppose it can be the same with any allergy.

-Jeff

[george wilson]

I'd guess that all the tropical woods are dangerous. Even boxwood is carcinogenic.

Maple wood dust really strangles me. It's terrible for me to breathe. Back in the 60's in North Carolina,I went into a "carving shop"(meaning where they had multiple spindle duplicating carvers) The men who sanded the furniture legs,etc.,were sitting in front of those big "sanding mops",I think they are called. The mops rotated,and embraced the carvings. The men had no masks,or any protective gear on at all. Every one of them had at least 1/2" of fine maple dust all over their heads and shoulders. They were against windows.Not sure if there were even fans blowing the stuff out. It seemed to me that the breeze was blowing the dust onto them.

I wonder how long those poor guys lasted. They were all young,and making minimum wages.

[Thomas Canfield]

I had an allergic skin reaction that I attribute to turning a pen from an "exotic" pen blank from Rockler that looked to be in the rosewood family or oily texture. The reaction showed up where the shavings and sanding dust made contact including the edge of my dust mask. The short of the story is that I had to delay an incisional hernia repair a couple of months and I cleared all the rosewood type material out of my shop. I only wish it was that easy to get rid of the poison ivy located in the woods behind my yard. Once you develop the extreme reactions, they only become more extreme and trips to the dermatologist get more frequent - like yesterday for unknown skin contact and reaction to either some plant or wood dust.

[Derby Matthews]

I virtually always use a Moldex dust mask with the exhaust port or AO respirator.

My trick (more for the finished product than safety) is to use Thin-x and emery paper & then steel wool to sand & polish Rosewood. I wear exam gloves to minimize the fluid getting on my skin. Works wonders, and no airborne dust.

Never had a reaction to wood - not even Cocobolo - but get me within shouting distance of Poison Ivy and I become a 1950s B movie monster, complete with oozing sores everywhere. I avoid Goncalo Alves for this reason. It and some other species are in the P. I. family.

It'd freeking kill me to have that happen from working with Rosewood. I agree. Take precautions - "Uuuuuuuse the maaaaaaaasssk, Luuuuuke!"

[Will Blick]

> use Thin-x and emery paper & then steel wool to sand & polish Rosewood. I wear exam gloves to minimize the fluid getting on my skin.


Derby, can you elaborate on this? You coat the wood with Thin-x...which one do you use? I notice they have a no-odor version, thats interesting.

Anyway, I assume the thinner keeps the wood wet, so no airborne dust, That is your point, right? hmmmm... this makes sense, but never heard this trick anywhere b4... I assume you keep applying the thin-x as it evaporates so quick.. But you still have to cut the wood, so dust is still a factor when working with it...

Do you use a respirator for the thinner? (I realize you wear a dust mask, but nothing for the thinner?) The thinner bothers me way more than Coco... which I rarely ever use, simply because I fear one day I will have a serious reaction which will release a cascade of wood allergies. It is remarkable when these threads appear through the years, how one mans allergen is another mans joy wood. But clearly Coco has surfaced as one of the highest risk woods... well, I am sure there is worse...but it comes down to how nice-looking the wood is vs. its allergen potential... Coco seems to peak at both ends of this scale... like all things in life, the better it looks.... the more problems you will have with it :-)

[Derby Matthews]

See edited post next door...

[Derby Matthews]

I use the odorless Thin-x with gloves and an organic vapor respirator mask (the most common kind of filter, 1001 uses!) apply with a brush - often placing small workpieces on an old plastic lunch tray or a made-up one using plastic sheet for Piano Lids, table tops, etc..
I use Emery paper for flatter surfaces & steel wool for curved surfaces. the dust comes off and pools in the fluid. I pour the fluid back into a jar and dump it out carefully after the dust has settled to the bottom hours to days. Then I allow the jar to dry out for a few days / weeks, and the dust comes out in big chunks - right into the trash can or fireplace. No fuss. Leaves a surface that is ready to use, unless finish is indicated based on my needs, if I do finish over the surface I usually don't need much. It sure is purdy all by itself.
I also keep a Windex bottle on hand when I clean out the shop vac or dust collector. A few mistings really knocks down the dust, and makes surprisingly little mess. Heck, I'm ugly enough even without a hacking cough :eek: thrown in. This works great on the lathe too -though I'm always reminded of working the shake station at McDonald's when I was a kid (used to leave with not one but two big stripes of shake across my chest from the mixer when I overzealously removed the shake too fast. Now the racing stripes are vertical when I forget to turn down the speed.


For cutting the wood I totally believe two basic principles that are no news in this forum:

1) The best dust collection I can afford. My system is pretty elaborate, with even those articulated LOSSSST INNNNN SPAAAAAACE Robot arm things going to even my band saw table undersides and drill press tables to catch as much dust as possible off every machine. Even if I have to make one, I'm putting a Thien separator in my dust collector as well. BTW, if you can find an old Rainbow vacuum, you can just set it up in the shop with no hose attached, and the unit will draw all the dust from the air without need for a filter - it uses water. It is astonishing how dirty the water gets after only a few minutes. I think this is way better than even the best JDS style air filter, and you just dump out the water when you're done. It even removes hydrophatic chemical gases from the air.

2) SHARP CUTTING EDGES - I would much rather make shavings than dust.

All this OCD sounding stuff is because my home shop is in my basement, and my Mom died from Emphysema. It's a really lousy way to go. You choke to death over several years. Sorry for the downer ending.


My mentor used to say "If you aren't using a filter, you ARE the filter!



> ... like all things in life, the better it looks.... the more problems you will have with it :-)

As you say, virtually every really hot girlfriend I've ever had was a double handful of trouble!;)

[Harvey Pascoe]

I found the cocobolo alergy to be virtually identical to the one I got for epoxy - comes with longer term exposure and gets progressively worse. The itching can drive you half-mad and takes about a week to abate. Since cocobolo is one of my best selling products, I really had a problem. No dust containment system will protect you, and the dust will go through any type of clothing. Don't think that one of those fabric bag dust collectors will help, they won't as they spew loads of fine particles into the air.

Some people get asthma like reactions and trouble breathing but what I got was severe heart burn, so bad that at times I thought I was having a heart attack. Zantac solved that.

I finally solved the problem with Tyvek full body suits with hood. They are cheap, about $7 and don't cause excessive sweating even though they are plastic. I also use a face shield like a welder's mask and latex gloves. As soon as I'm finished with the machines, I take a shower. You should not work with coco under any circumstances if you are sweating as you will transfer dust to your skin when you take the body suit off.

I plan my work so that I do all the dusty work in short order so as to limit exposure time.

The worst offenders for getting dust on you are, in this order, 1. orbital sanders, 2. the table saw which throws dust in your face and hands, 3. the band saw.

This is a high price to pay for using cocobolo, but if you make a good profit with this wood, its the only way.

[Will Blick]

Just typed a long response, hit SUBMIT, and web page could not display, go BACK and your message is gone...this has been happening on a more frequent basis, very frustrating.... I have contacted mods before but nothing ever gets resolved with technical isssues.... frustrating....

so a shorter response...

Derby, thanks for the details....you sur are committed...

Harvey, do you have a web site? What coco products do you sell? I am full agreement with both of you on all the avoidance strategies... I also dump my cyclone excess outside, a Bill Pence "mandatory" strategy....

[Jim Jakosh]

"Rosewood" allergy?
Often santos "rosewood" the Macherium sp (species) is the culprit albeit that it is not a rosewood (Dalbergia sp) but only sold as such, caveat emptor. Many folk develop an allergy to Cocobolo D retusa and too a much much lesser extent other Dalbergia species. They do say that if you dont have an allergy to Cocobolo you will get aquire one eventually! It would be helpfull if you could id exactly the timber involved. Much better to stay away from that particular species, its no fun having to take steroids to dampen down the bodys reaction. Trained as a nurse and a cabinet maker with a specialism in identyfying rare timbers in furniture restoration:D hope that helps
"Use extraction or become an extractor"

I think I have an allergic reaction to Brazilian rosewood right now. I wore a respirator all the while but I cut. drilled and planed two mating pieces for a handle and when I used a sanding drum on Dremel I found I had a lot of dust stuck to my forehead. Now I am coughing and real low on energy and find it hard to stand up for a length of time. I had this about 5 yrs ago and had to get a steroid to stop it. Then it felt like I had barbed wire wrapped around my neck. I got sick from it 3 times before I realized the cause. I have a bit of it and I'll be selling it of giving it away!...Is there any natural remedy to counter act the symptoms??

Cheers, Jim

[Reed Gray]

As some one said, with the rosewoods, it is when, not if you will react with allergies. It doesn't bother me much, but I can feel how it will eventually if I work with it much. I don't work with walnut any more, and that was mostly bowls because I would start to sneeze and itch. The dry wood might be better. I don't work with Mimosa/silk trees any more. General rule is that the more it smells, the worse it will be for you. Many will develop allergies to redwood and cedar when exposed enough. Each exposure reduces your resistance to the woods. There are charts for wood toxicity.

robo hippy

[Tom M King]

I don't do any sanding of red woods like Redwood or Mahogany, or I get asthma symptoms. Nothing else gives me asthma symptoms. Plane shavings don't bother me, but I wear long sleeves and gloves just to make sure. I avoid red woods unless absolutely necessary.