8/4 vs 4/4 hard maple for bench top

[Boris Sudel]

Hi,

I want to save money and make my bench top from 4/4 instead of 8/4 maple. I understand that it would add more work gluing, but will save about 50% of cost. I would like to hear your insight on whether the choice of 4/4 maple would affect bench functionality and bench top stability.

Thanks,
Boris

[Prashun Patel]

you hit the nail on the head: If yr willing to do double the planing/jointing/gluing, then there's no real benefit. You can also save yrself some $$ by using soft instead of hard maple for the top. It'll be as stable.

[Mike Wayne]

Have you considered bowling alley?

I got 16' sections at 42" wide at 10/4 for ~$180 when I built my bench. It's a great deal when you can find it!

[Thomas Pender]

There are many maple tops sold commercially - I have one I use on my Noden Adjustable Bench (wonderful for hand planning and assembly). (Grizzly sells them and there are other places to buy them on the web.) Mine is extremely stable and it is made of many strips of wood as are most you see for sale. While I admit that 8/4 looks beautiful (almost monolithic) and has fewer glue lines, it is heavier to joint and plane and I think it is almost a tradeoff with the extra glue joints with a 4/4. Plus, you are probably going to drill or rout it for bench dog holes anyway, right? Having used both for various purposes, I would say save the 50%. The purpose of any bench top is to get beat up! I also see no issue with using soft maple, ash, or even yellow pine.

[Brian Tymchak]

Hi,

I want to save money and make my bench top from 4/4 instead of 8/4 maple. I understand that it would add more work gluing, but will save about 50% of cost. I would like to hear your insight on whether the choice of 4/4 maple would affect bench functionality and bench top stability.

Thanks,
Boris

Hi Boris,

Unless your heart is set on having a maple top (and if it is, go for it), you might consider another wood, like ash. Here in my neck of the woods (central OH), 8/4 ash is going for ~$3.60 BF where 4/4 hard maple is ~$4.35 BF. (Soft maple is a bit higher than that.) If $$ are the primary concern, maybe there is another wood you can use. You can get the savings in both raw costs and reduced labor. BTW, ash is excellent for benches. Beech, another decent wood for benches (I've read) is going for even less than ash.

Post Edit: Actually the $3.60 price does not include any bundling discount. Where I buy my wood, I can get 10% off 100 BF (hand picked) for a price of $3.24. Even better...

Brian

[Kent A Bathurst]

you hit the nail on the head: If yr willing to do double the planing/jointing/gluing, then there's no real benefit........

bingo. tee it up.

[Zach England]

bingo. tee it up.


That's quite the mixed metaphor.

[Frank Drew]

The purpose of any bench top is to get beat up!

I think I understand your point (don't worry too much about keeping your benchtop pristine and in mint condition), but with too many of the old benches I've seen it's clear that someone worked into, rather than on, the bench. A chewed-up benchtop is, IMO, a sign of careless workmanship.

Boris,

I used mostly 8/4 hard maple and it's served me well. I can't think of any significant practical difference between 4/4 and 8/4 once they were fashioned up into the benchtop; more work initially, though, as you note. Soft maple would probably be easier to machine and glue, with a slight tradeoff in durability. Ash, oak, elm, etc. are more open-grained than I'd want in a work bench, but they're all certainly hard enough and easy enough to work. Yellow pine might be prone to splintering and that's not a feature I'd like in a work bench.

[John Thompson]

Hi Boris,

Unless your heart is set on having a maple top (and if it is, go for it), you might consider another wood, like ash. Here in my neck of the woods (central OH), 8/4 ash is going for ~$3.60 BF where 4/4 hard maple is ~$4.35 BF. (Soft maple is a bit higher than that.) If $$ are the primary concern, maybe there is another wood you can use. You can get the savings in both raw costs and reduced labor. BTW, ash is excellent for benches. Beech, another decent wood for benches (I've read) is going for even less than ash.

Post Edit: Actually the $3.60 price does not include any bundling discount. Where I buy my wood, I can get 10% off 100 BF (hand picked) for a price of $3.24. Even better...

Brian

Whoa Brian... I just purchased about 60 bd. ft. of 8/4 soft maple at $2.92 a bd. ft. That makes me appreciate my supplier here in Georgia.

Regards..

[Richard M. Wolfe]

If you can get a 4/4 top suitably flat it could be laminated to a 3/4 substrate like plywood or mdf and provide a thicker top. Once you have a suitably hard work surface the weight and its stability would be what you are going for. If the appearance puts you off you could put a skirt of 8/4 around the edge.

[Ben Davis]

I think I understand your point (don't worry too much about keeping your benchtop pristine and in mint condition), but with too many of the old benches I've seen it's clear that someone worked into, rather than on, the bench. A chewed-up benchtop is, IMO, a sign of careless workmanship.

Boris,

I used mostly 8/4 hard maple and it's served me well. I can't think of any significant practical difference between 4/4 and 8/4 once they were fashioned up into the benchtop; more work initially, though, as you note. Soft maple would probably be easier to machine and glue, with a slight tradeoff in durability. Ash, oak, elm, etc. are more open-grained than I'd want in a work bench, but they're all certainly hard enough and easy enough to work. Yellow pine might be prone to splintering and that's not a feature I'd like in a work bench.
Frank,

I've had an extreamly heafty Roubo-style bench made from SYP for several years. I've never once gotten a splinter. The top has taken an excessive amount of beating and it hardly looks different than when I made it. The leg vice and plane stop are from Ash.

I followed the Schwarz book 95% of the way. It's an outstanding read if you don't already have it, and should be read before you start down building your own bench. It will save you hours of pain.

[Brian Tymchak]

Whoa Brian... I just purchased about 60 bd. ft. of 8/4 soft maple at $2.92 a bd. ft. That makes me appreciate my supplier here in Georgia.

Regards..

Wow! I would appreciate your supplier too! Nice price..

[John Daugherty]

Frank,

I've had an extreamly heafty Roubo-style bench made from SYP for several years. I've never once gotten a splinter. The top has taken an excessive amount of beating and it hardly looks different than when I made it. The leg vice and plane stop are from Ash.

I followed the Schwarz book 95% of the way. It's an outstanding read if you don't already have it, and should be read before you start down building your own bench. It will save you hours of pain.

I second the southern yellow pine. It's relatively cheap and plenty durable for a bench top.

[Ryan Hellmer]

I used 4/4 #2 hard maple for mine, ripped the strips 2.25" and glued them up face to face. I liked it for 2 reasons, (1) I like the edges showing, it gives some cool quartersawn effect to the benchtop and (2) using the #2 maple, I could almost always find one edge with no defects so all the knots and discolorations are inside or on the bottom of my bench. It's been getting a beating now for 5+ years and looks great. I didn't do a very good job leveling the top, but that was my fault, otherwise it's been an amazing bench. Oh yeah, I also didn't have very many clamps so I predrilled and assembled with threaded rod. the bench isn't going anywhere but I wouldn't recommend the threaded rod approach for may reasons including the "truss rod" effect it has when seasons change.

Ryan

[Bill White]

Have you considered bowling alley?

I got 16' sections at 42" wide at 10/4 for ~$180 when I built my bench. It's a great deal when you can find it!

Me too. I got mine (bowling alley section) when Georgia Baptist Hospital in Atl. junked their alley. Don't ask why a hospital needs a bowling alley.
Solid and stable, but sure is heavy, but it was FREE.
Bill

[John Thompson]

I will 3rd that SYP doesn't splinter. I have built 5 SYP tops in the last 6 years.. two for me and 3 for friends and splinter is not an issue. It's also easy to work with as I can build a top in one day with a one to two day glue-up time. I use Doug Fir bases which is a splinter issue but not on the base as it is extremely stable once milled.

[Frank Drew]

If you can get a 4/4 top suitably flat it could be laminated to a 3/4 substrate like plywood or mdf and provide a thicker top. Once you have a suitably hard work surface the weight and its stability would be what you are going for. If the appearance puts you off you could put a skirt of 8/4 around the edge.

Richard,

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think that Boris is thinking about using 4/4 boards on edge, to laminate a thick top, not 4/4 as a finished thickness.

And I stand educated about SYP and its resistance to splintering.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Boris,
Your price difference really surprises me. I would not expect 8/4 to be 2x the cost of 4/4.

Also note that 2 pieces of 4/4 will typically not mill out to be the same thickness as 8/4. And it is 2x the effort to select, prepare and glue.

Your time has to be worth something. I think I would go with the 8/4 (or thicker) and whatever is cheap, stable and readily available in your area :).

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Within the last year there was a bench build article by Garrett Hack in FWW where he used 4/4 stock in 3 layers (adding up to a total top of 12/4) for the bench top. If I remember correctly he used less expensive hard woods for the two lower layers and hard maple only for the very top.

I did not exactly care for the overall design he advocated...seemed he was advocating deep/wide aprons (per Schwarz's book these make clamping to the top more difficult) and also the trestle base didn't have any provision for ever being disassembled and was made with a long steel rods threaded through the lower stretchers.

Chris Schwarz's book is a good read. He definitely recommends SYP.

I am too chicken to build my bench on my own...taking an intensive 6-day workshop next month to (finally) make the leap. I can't wait! Have been pulling my hair out with an MDF/ply topped table.

[Boris Sudel]

Ash, oak, elm, etc. are more open-grained than I'd want in a work bench, but they're all certainly hard enough and easy enough to work.


Frank,

Would you mind to elaborate as to why open grained ash would be detrimental to use in a bench. I don't think I understand this subject well enough.

Thanks,
Boris

[Eiji Fuller]

The thicker the better. 8,10,12 or even 16/4 if you can get it at a decent price.

Getting it done faster and more efficeintly is worth alot more IMO than saving a little money on the materials. I think my mindset is more inline with professionals as it seems that hobbyists can spend 1000s of hours on a project and have that as something to be proud of. The faster I can build the more food I can put on the table.

[Greg Portland]

I would like to hear your insight on whether the choice of 4/4 maple would affect bench functionality and bench top stability.I think you've already gotten your answer to the 4/4 versus 8/4. If you are trying to build an older style bench for the challenge or for the artistic result then ignore my comments below.

If you are trying to build a bomb-proof bench, there are much easier and cheaper methods than laminating up a ton of maple. A set of torsion boxes makes an extremely strong top and truss system. This only requires some decent 2x4s and plywood. Threaded rod + fasteners will tension everything together and make it rock solid. Careful planning will allow you to add dog holes wherever you want in the top. For my bench, I beefed up the region around the vise hardware with maple & used maple for the vise faces.

[Paul Ryan]

Schwarz basically goes with the cheaper is better method, when it comes to materials. If you check out his blog he basically says and material will work for a bench, dont worry about the material too much. I am in the design phase right now, I will probably go with ash because it is dirt cheap around here. Popular woodworking even has a bench built with the laminated construction lumber. So no matter what you choose you really can go wrong. Just make sure you have a good design for what you want to do, and get the top flat. His latest bench is a cherry top with some unknown leg and strecher material.

[Bud Millis]

I used 12/4 on mine. In the end it was well worth it. your only going to build it once and it will last for years. That being said, in Pop Wood during the last year used plywood. They cut it in 3" strips and glued it together. Thats always an option.

The bowling alley is great. I've got several benches and counters made out of that.