TS adjustments

[Jim O'Dell]

Ok, I finally got some time to play with the new Align it jig I purchased on the new cabinet saw. I thought I had the blade close to parallel to the miter slot, but it wasn't close. No problem, loosen 3 of the 4 bolts. Closest I could get was (est) 0.0042. Most of the time, more like 0.005. So I loosen the 4th bolt. No help. It seems like the direction I need to go, it doesn't have any more adjustment. Has anyone had to ream out the holes before to get it closer? Or am I trying to get too close to perfect? I thought I'd be fine at 0.001 to 0.002, but I just can't get there. I'd prefer not to take the top off, but will if that is what is needed to get this right. I've been going off the right miter slot. I doubt I'll ever use that. Might try the left one just to see if there is any difference. I'm using a Forrest blade that has ripped through about 9 linear feet of 2X material. I am marking one tooth and measuring front to back off the same spot. Measuring before on the trunnion showed negligible movement, so I don't think that is the problem. TIA for any help you can offer. Jim.

[Bill Huber]

I would go to the left miter slot, that is the one you will be using and not the right one. I don't think I have ever use the right miter slot on my saw.

Once I get the blade set I then lower it and use the left slot for the fence.

If you can't get it the way you want, pull the top and file out the holes, it will only take a very small amount to do it. You know if you don't get it were you want it, it will bug you forever.

I have a master plate if you want to use it.

[Larry Frank]

There was a recent thread about which side of the sawblade that you work on the most. When I have checked my tablesaw, I get consistent measurements from both miter slots. With my Jet Xacta, I am within a few thousandths and did not think that there was much use in getting it closer. I find that my miter gauge has some small play in it but consistent with the amount of the alignment of the saw to the miter slots.

Before taking the top off the saw, I would make a call to the mfg and ask.

[Jim O'Dell]

Bill, I almost bought one a month or so ago when Rockler had a 25% off coupon in the email. Tool fund was depleted and I didn't feel like asking the wife for a loan. I've got a few bucks available now so might spring for one, especially since I have the straight edge coming. I just didn't think I would be off that much. Oh, and I did go try the left miter slot...same thing. Just won't bump far enough to get closer than I've gotten. Man I hate to to take the top off, but I might just have to.
Larry I might just make that call. But I'm not sure it would make any difference. It's an alignment issue. Short of sending a new top, or a new base, I'm not sure what they could do. They might tell me to take the top off and check the trunnion mounts. I'd do that anyway if I end up taking the top off. I just hate to deal with the shims. I know there is one on the front left, didn't look too close at the other corners.
Thanks guys. Jim.

[Myk Rian]

If you use the left miter all the time, use it to adjust the saw.

[scott spencer]

Jim - Is it possible to recenter the whole trunnion system in the middle of the holes, then realign it? It sounds like the whole thing might be skewed to one edge.

[Jim O'Dell]

Scott, anything is possible at this point. If I end up taking the top off, then I will be checking the trunnion mounts. Could be that it is loose too. Or just moved in shipping. Jim.

[glenn bradley]

I just hate to deal with the shims. I know there is one on the front left, didn't look too close at the other corners.
Thanks guys. Jim.

If its any help in dispelling your concerns, I don’t have any of the original shims in place; I replaced them all while aligning the saw top for 45*. The factory shims would only get me so close. I used washers of the same size with varying thicknesses which made it very easy. These weren't "special" washers, I just picked out ones with random thicknesses at the BORG. In one location there is even a bit of tin-snipped Coke can as a fine adjustment ;-)

[Peter Hanson]

I thought I was going to ream the holes to align my top and getting quite frustrated. I was giving the top one last "nudge" and pushed too hard on the "recieving" end which shoved the top ALL the way out of alignment. I then found I had plenty of room to tweek into alignment. Hope this makes sense. Basically, when the top is near (at) it's limits, there is no more room. By pushing it all the way away from alignment, there is more room to slightly adjust. Hope it helps (and works).
Peter

[Jim O'Dell]

I've tried starting at all different positions and so far haven't found the sweet spot. Not through trying yet, just not there. ;) I need to start at one corner, leave it anchored and see what I can do, then go to the next. In other words, do it systematically instead of just helter/skelter. At least I can see which starting point gets me the closest. Jim.

[Bob Wingard]

If you're having that much trouble getting it aligned, I would loosen all 4 table bolts .. push the top as far as it will go in one direction .. then try tapping into alignment with a soft dead blow mallet. Then, start by slightly snugging up all the bolts a little at a time. That big-a$$ heavy top doesn't squirm around nearly as much as some would have you think.

If you REALLY want to play .. for just the cost of shipping both ways, I can loan you my hardware for performing alignment. It consists of a 3 bearing, spring-loaded miter gauge guided dial indicator that has absolutely zero play. The two end bearings are fixed, and the middle one is spring loaded. Next, is a precision ground aluminum plate that is about 1-1/8" thick and shaped much like half of the letter "H". It is about 20" long and has a mounting hole on the short leg that slips over the saw arbor. What this thing does for you is provide a tremendous improvement in resolution. You can indicate along the entire 20" length of this as as opposed to using a few inches of a saw blade.

One additional "gizmo"I've built is essentially a PALS type system for cabinet saws. It is a 1/4" thick steel plate with a couple of 1/4-20 nuts welded to it near the ends. You sandwich this plate between your saw's main top and the extension wing(s). Screw in a couple of 1/4-20 bolts and they will "push" the top into alignment and hold it there whilst you snug things in place.

Using all of my toys, I can dial in a cabinet saw in less than 15 minutes. I can get you some pics if you'd like to see this setup.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks for the offer Bob. I'd love to see some pictures, as I'm sure others would. I'm thinking about getting a Master Plate to help with alignment. Bill Huber has graciously offered to loan me his, but I might as well have one. guess I could attach my soon to be here straight edge to get reading further out. And I've loosened all 4 bolts. If after it gets to the end of it's available adjustment range, I can push and get a little movement out of the needle the direction I need it to go, but it won't stay there...it just doesn't have enough range to get there. I tried several different starting points last night, but the adjustments bring me right back to where it always goes and won't go any further. So, I guess I'm going to have to mark where the bolts are in reference to the openings in each corner, and pull the top. Won't happen until Saturday at the earliest. I'd love to see your set up Bob. Jim.

[Bob Wingard]

OK .. lemme' see if I can butcher up this explanation .. any questions .. gimme' a holler and I'll see if I can give clarification .. .. ..


The first pic. shows the bottom of the jig that holds the dial indicator. The two end bearings are stationary, and the middle is a cam follower that is spring loaded. This removes every bit of slop in the slot and causes the jig to ride in the slot with perfectly even pressure from one end to the other.

Next is the view of this jig that you'd normally see, The dial indicator mounting bar slides back & forth for a "rough" adjustment on most any tool. The drop point contact works well in situations where you really need to sweep down close to the table surface.

Pic. #3 shows the ground aluminum plate that mounts on the arbor in place of the blade for alignment purposes. It is about 1" thick and 18" long .. much better resolution than using a single point on a blade and rotating it back & forth.

#4 shows what the setup looks like in use .. again .. very accurate & stable.

Pic. #5 shows one of my homemade cabinet saw "PALS" type pusher system. It's a 1/4" plate that has 3 mounting holes in it. It is sandwiched between the main table top and the wings. There are two of these, and they are mirror images of each other. You can see there are two nuts welded to each plate and the holes are drilled & tapped through the plate. The bolts that are screwed into these holes "push" the table & trunnion into alignment, holding them in place while you snug up the corner mounting screws.

Next pic. shows roughly the location of the left plate in approximate location. I added an EXACTOR sliding table a while back, and chose to remove the one plate to accommodate the new slider.

The last photo is a closeup of one of the adjusting bolts. In use .. I loosen all four adjusting bolts AND all four table mounting bolts. Mount the aluminum plate on the arbor .. install the dial indicator jig and zero it out. I slightly snug up the table bolts and start checking alignment. I move the appropriate adjustment bolts, pushing things into alignment. When I get close, I snug up the mounting bolts a bit more. Repeat the procedure a few times, and, before you know it .. everything is aligned and locked in place. I can usually get 0.0015" to 0.002" along the 18" path of the plate which equates to about 0.0006" across the blank of a standard 10" blade.

I hope this explanation helps out any of you guys who might want to incorporate any or all of my gizmos on your own saws !! !! !!

thanx for looking .. .. ..

<<<__ Bøb __>>>

[Lee Schierer]

Jim we had a similar problem with an old powermatic saw here at work. The trunnion was mounted to the bottom of the table with bolts, instead of studs and nuts, We ended up necking down two of the bolts about 0.010" to get enough room. We switched to grade five bolts and had them turned down just in the area where the trunnion ears would be. It took less than 20 minutes to replace the original bolts with the turned down ones and align the saw.

[Jim O'Dell]

Rob, thanks for the pictures and information! Nicely done. You basically made your own elongated Master Plate and align it jig. Good information!
Lee, that sounds like a great solution. I'm afraid it would take me longer to find someone/some way to turn the bolts than it will to elongate the holes in the cabinet. I realize that wasn't an option for the saw you are talking about. Guess I could install the chuck, ane chuck up the bolts in the RAS and use a file....:eek: Naaah, best not go that route. :D Jim.

[Jim O'Dell]

Well, I bit the bullet and pulled the top off last night after our little day excursion. 155505 Only the one shim, so easy to keep up with where it goes! ;) Didn't have a drill bit bigger than the existing holes, so figured I'd have to go get something this am. Looked through my tool box and low and behold, what did I find??? 155504 So I enlarged the holes some. Not perfectly round.155506155507 Don't get the speed needed with an electric drill to keep it steady! And the Dremel won't accept anything this big of diameter. Sure miss having the air powered die grinder from my car audio install days! At least I kept the bit!!!
It's cleaned off and drying while I eat breakfast. May go back after the holes with a round file to smooth them out. clean them again and touch up the chipped paint with a q-tip to keep the rust at bay. Yes, I'll be sure not to get any on top that could throw off the tops alignment.
Oh, and here are the 2 new blades.155508 The one on the left is obviously for the 691. The one on the right is for the Hitachi slider, and is a thin kerf blade. Hope everyone is having a great weekend. Jim.

[Bill Huber]

Did you ream the holes front to back, I would think you would want to ream them side to side. It just had to be a very little bit to get it where you wanted it.

[Jim O'Dell]

They are reamed front to back as that is where I needed the extra movement. I probably did more than I needed to, but I didn't want to take it apart again. I got larger washer for underneath the cabinet to span the new hole, and a whole lot more. :rolleyes: They are already ground to fit waiting for the paint to dry. I did go back with my round file and finish out the holes a little. If I'd know it would file that easily, I wouldn't have messed with the deburring tool. Jim.

[Jim O'Dell]

Just me again. Just put the top back on and aligned it to just less than .001 in about 10 minutes using my new Infinity blade! Bill Huber has graciously offered to lend me his Master Plate for a week. I'm meeting him at Woodcraft in a little over an hour to make the trade. Hmmm. Wonder what he is buying??????:D Jim.

[Howard Acheson]

Do you have a cabinet saw or a contractor type or a hybrid saw?

If it is a contractor saw or a hybrid where the trunnion attaches to the bottom of the table, you may have to move the trunnion as a unit to get the four bolt holes in the trunnion centered over the bolt holes in the bottom of the tabletop. Then you will have the slack you need to make the final alignment adjustments.

[Jim O'Dell]

Howard, it's a cabinet saw, Grizzly G0691. I guess I forget that not everyone was into my saving all last year to get it. :D This all makes me wonder how out of alignment my Ridgid contractor saw is!! Not sure I want to find out. It was a royal pain to do. If I check it and it's out, guess I might have to invest in a set of Pals to make it go easier. Jim.