Biscuits and Glue Ups

[Bobby O'Neal]

How many of you guys and gals regularly use biscuits for your panel glue ups? Not so much as a means of strength but more about alignment. If you don't, what is your preferred method?

Bobby

[Bill Huber]

I have tried them but they never really do what I think they should and hold the boards in place like I want.

I use dowels for both alignment and strength, they just work very well for me. I am using the Jessem doweling jig now and started out with a DowelMax and both are very fast and easy to use.

[Steve Schoene]

For biscuits to really aid alignment the biscuit joiner has to be REALLY well setup and technique needs to be perfect. Usually biscuits just guarantee a bit of misalignment. One example I've seen personally, is a fellow who was frustrated using a biscuit joiner for alignment, until he had the opportunity to use a Lamello Top 10. Problem solved.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I have been through a number of boxes in making panels. I find one of the pluses in using biscuits is in alignment to keep boards in place when gluing and during the time the glue is drying. The two jointed board edges with a slick layer of glue can really move around when pressure is applied in clamping. Make a three, four or five board panel glue up and multiply that problem by a lot. And I have had the edges 'creep' several minutes after applying the final clamp pressure if not held in place by biscuits (or dowels).

[Stuart Gardner]

I don't use them for wide flat panel glues ups really, but i do edge glue to make solid fronts for drawers and other things that aren't super wide (meaning wider than my 12" planer). What I've learned is to joint and plane the individual boards to about 1/32" to 1/16" thicker than the final thickness, glue up the assembly, wait a day, then plane the glue up to final thickness. The offset usually isn't too bad before final planing, but I find this method gives me pretty good results.

[Joe Chritz]

The alignment is always perfect after a couple passes through the planer or drum sander.

I don't use anything for alignment. If I really have to for some reason I will use cauls to hold the boards in alignment while the clamps are tightened.

Joe

[Chris Kennedy]

I use them on a regular basis when making panels. I agree with the earlier post about having multiple pieces going together, they make a difference.

Chris

[Steve Schoene]

I'll second using cauls instead of biscuits.

[Peter Quinn]

For small panels with flattened stock I find biscuits some where between a waste of time and an annoyance. I prefer some cauls, a few clamps on the ends of the boards, careful application of the clamps, a little fine sand on the joints to keep them from moving. I start from one end and align things as I go. It usually works out better than with biscuits.

But for BIG tops like counters with stock that is not flattened over its length and width, say material longer than 8" that is going to be glued wider than 18". I find they can help with gross alignment. They help keep things close enough to plane and machine sand to final thickness and have a level surface. Its easier than the other method I have used, beating the half clamped glue up with a big dead blow to "encourage" proper alignment!

If I were really trying to bang out panels with blind ends I'd be more inclined to use a glue joint cutter on the router or shaper to help maintain alignment. Quicker on multiples and more accurate IMO.

[Greg Plowman]

I find they help with boards that are longer than my work bench, otherwise getting the warp out of the ends with just clamps can sometimes Be more difficult. As far as strength goes it doesn't really matter, the glue in a side grain to side grain glue up is stronger than the wood anyway.

[Steve Rowe]

I don't use biscuits for panel glueups. Just edge to edge glue is all that is necessary. When partially clamped, I use a deadblow hammer to ensure surfaces are even. If you can't get nearly perfect alignment, go back to step 1 as you are not using flat and square stock.

[Mark Woodmark]

I don't use biscuits for panel glueups. Just edge to edge glue is all that is necessary. When partially clamped, I use a deadblow hammer to ensure surfaces are even. If you can't get nearly perfect alignment, go back to step 1 as you are not using flat and square stock.

I agree edge to edge is good enough if the boards are jointed correctly. dowels and biscuits are somewhat of a disruption to this continous glue line. I joint my edges opposite each other and apply more pressure at the center of the boards. The idea is to create an ever so slight concave in the edge so more pressure will be applied at the ends at clamp up where the wood dispurses its moisture. I hold the two boards together at the center, if I can pivot them here the ends are not tight enough and require another pass throught the jointer to acheive this concave

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I like them. I just built a copy of Norm's assembly table and they worked great for holding the two pieces of plywood in aligment where they come together at the corners to form the legs.

If you get in a hurry, you can screw them up without too much effort.

[Dave Lehnert]

I have an old cheap Skill Biscuit joiner. It is not very good for flat alignment
I do have the biscuit jointer made by Shopsmith and it works very well and get good alignment with my panels.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=135065&d=1260671258

[Cody Colston]

I use biscuits occassionally but not on panel glue-ups. For those, I just use clamps and cauls to keep everything aligned.

[glenn bradley]

+1 on clamps and cauls. As to biscuits not lining things up; I think the biscuit joiner is only second to the jigsaw in the availability of inferior quality tools. OK, so that's an exaggeration but, you get my drift. A good machine and good biscuits that have been properly stored will give you a nice tight, well aligned joint.

I found them more bother than help although, they are handy for aligning face frames. I sold my PC 557 and have missed it a couple times over the last few years but, not enough to give up the shelf space for it. Your mileage will vary depending on your work and how much you might use one ;-)

[Will Blick]

> I don't use biscuits for panel glueups. Just edge to edge glue is all that is necessary.


There is some issues here that often creep into play....first, if the glue up consist of many boards, say 4+, and you are using long parallel clamps, say 18"+, the clamp bars will bow when tightened...this forces the jaws out of alignment and forces the boards to elevate in the middle area, creating a slightly arced panel. Sometimes just a small amount, other times a lot... it can be a battle at times...

so my solutions....

first, be sure boards edges are as flat and square as possible...
use two long enough pairs of angle iron that is FLAT and clamp them perpendicular to the glue line... or solid Alum which I ended up buying. Clamp tight at the ends, not ultra hard, just enough to hold and keep them flat when you tighten your end clamps.
use edge clamp pads to keep all the ends flat to each other... you can buy these dirt cheap from Harbor freight...
This IMO is the fastest and straightest panel glue up.....


Biscuits are OK (not great, but probably better if you use a well tuned Lamello and consistent sized bisquits)... biscuits, at best, keep the surfaces edges on the same plane as the adjacent board. However, that does not assure the entire panel will be flat, and that this is where the benefits of the above system comes into play, it does both.

Dowels are clearly a big improvement over biscuits, as they are not "loose" fitting as a biscuits. However, also somewhat PITA and costly jig....EXCEPT this recent one I purchased which is designed for panel glue up only....it's FAST, and simple for ONE thing, and that is panel glue ups... and its dirt cheap right now at Woodworkers supply.... acutally I am surprised this jig never became more popular... it self centers the holes into each two adjacent boards, assuring surface alignment and if you use long enough dowels, it also assures full top flatness (the harder of the two problems to overcome, the other one being edge to edge alighnemt)

http://woodworker.com/images/j210/100-131.jpg


Of course, the next level is dedicated panel clamping systems, and if the volume is there, they are sure worth their price....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VRMKFAXBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Bill White]

Well darn!!! I didn't know that my DeWalt biscuit joiner was so worthless. I use is often with good results. HMMMMMMM? Wonder what I'm doin' wrong? ;)
Bill

[Norman Pyles]

I started out using biscuits on panels, just like Norm. Have since learned I don't need the biscuits, and find it's easier to glue up the panels without them. I still use my biscuit joiner, when I am fastening face frames to plywood carcasses.