outboard stand turning ?

[Sean Hughto]

I have a jet 1642. As most of you know, it has a 16" swing. In my experience that means that if I'm roughing a green blank, I'm already down to 15.5 or so. I then anchorseal and let the rough dry before returning, which yields a final bowl in the 14.75 range given the amount of warping a balnk that size does in drying. Point is, even with a 16" swing, I can't readily do 16" diameter bowls. Not to mention that I would love to do some even bigger from time to time.

So the headstock would slide all the way down the bed to presumably allow outboard turning. If I bought the Powermatic stand, would my prayers be answered? I'd be interested in anyone's experience with outboard stands and the pluses, minuses, limitations, drawbacks, etc. of this approach. Certainly much cheaper than a new lathe if it would work ...

Thanks in advance for you input.

[Dale Bright]

Sean,

The Powermatic stand should work fine but is very expensive, especially since getting blanks that large does not happen very often. I built my own outboard rest for around $75.00. When I get home this evening I will post a picture. The plans were in a article in Woodturning Design about 2 years ago. There is a picture of one on this site, if you search "0utboard" it was around Feb 08.

If you want to drive over to Purcellville, I will gladly show you my outboard stand.

Dale

[David DeCristoforo]

Outboard turning is one of those things that can elicit some strongly differing opinions. But it is unwise to underestimate the forces at work. Any outboard tool rest should be firmly anchored and overbuilt. Here's a little anecdote to illustrate the point.

Many years ago (once upon a time?) I had to make a bunch of 12" diameter crown moulding sections. I decided that turning them from glued up, segmented rings, four crown sections per ring, would be the ticket. But I had no lathe and I needed to spin a 26" diameter faceplate. So I cobbled up a "faceplate lathe" using a 1" steel shaft, some pillow blocks, a motor (swiped from my drill press) and some pulleys, all bolted to my cast iron shaper table.

By the time I had everything assembled, I had burned up a day so I was anxious to get to work on the project and I still needed a tool rest. A nearby saw horse was conscripted and seemed solid enough but it was not tall enough. A strip of 3/4" plywood screwed to the edge of the top of the sawhorse took care of that. By this time, my blanks were ready to unclamp and the first one was soon merrily spinning away. The second one went without a hitch and by then I was wallowing in overconfidence.

About half way through the third ring, the gouge caught. The downward force was sufficient to shear the three screws holding the piece of plywood to the sawhorse. The shank of the gouge was slammed down on top of the sawhorse with all four fingers of my left hand in between. Broke the bones in all four fingers. My hand very soon resembled a catcher's mitt. And I still had lots of turning to do.

[Jeff Willard]

1) I hope this is a variable speed machine.

2) How much does the lathe weigh, and how stable do you feel it is with a large, off-balance piece spinning? The reason I ask is because I assume (even though I have no scientific basis for my assumption:eek:) that the torsional forces may be magnified out at the end of the lathe, with only two legs resisting, as opposed to inboard with four. With a piece that's balanced fairly well, and/or if you can keep the speed reasonable, the outboard rest may be just fine. Add weight, speed, and imbalance, and things could go south quickly.

3) Have you considered blocking up the headstock? Don't know if it's possible with your machine, or that you would even want to attempt it, but I have a Conover, which is a 16" swing machine, and of fairly light weight for a machine in this class. The headstock has been blocked up 2" giving me a 20" swing over the bed. So far, that's been as much capacity as I've ever needed-or desired. A 90# hunk-o-beech spinning, no matter how slowly, can be intimidating.
Just so you know, I'm not some yahoo that decided to do such a thing to see how far he could push the envelope ("Hold my beer-watch this!"), the yahoo that designed and originally built the machine told me I could. It's in the owners manual:cool:. I do have the advantage of being able to reduce the speed to well under 50 RPM, though.

[Sean Hughto]

Thanks to everyone for the comments so far.

Jeff:
- the Jet 1642 is indeed a variable speed machine

- I have turned balnks at the outer edge of this machine's inboard capacity - up to around 16" x 7" and understand the daunting nature of a big hunk moving. I cut them to round on my bandsaw first, so I usually have little problem with serious imbalance.

- I've never even heard of blocking up (well not on a lathe anyway - I do have a riser block on my bandsaw). Does anyone know if it's possible with a Jet?

[Jeff Willard]

About half way through the third ring, the gouge caught. The downward force was sufficient to shear the three screws holding the piece of plywood to the sawhorse. The shank of the gouge was slammed down on top of the sawhorse with all four fingers of my left hand in between. Broke the bones in all four fingers. My hand very soon resembled a catcher's mitt. And I still had lots of turning to do.

Now I understand why you haven't done any turning since TR and I rode up that hill together.

(Truth be told, he dragged me up it, kicking and screaming the whole way:eek:.)

[Jeff Willard]

- I've never even heard of blocking up (well not on a lathe anyway - I do have a riser block on my bandsaw). Does anyone know if it's possible with a Jet?

I also used to do this with an old Delta that I had that had a sliding headstock design. It is essentially the same idea as the riser block on a bandsaw. The headstock was secured with one bolt, as is the case with the Conover. With the Conover, it's merely a 2" thick piece of maple sandwiched between the headstock and the bed, with a piece of all-thread of suitable length holding it all together. I can snap a couple of photos later tonight if it will help. The only other sticky points that I can see are:

Is your T-rest post long enough? Easily rectified with an after market rest if not. And...
Is the banjo base long enough to accommodate the largest piece that you may turn? If not, that's a prollem. Mine is sufficient for a 20" swing lathe, but I think it was designed that way.

Since you have the ability to keep the speed down, I don't see why this couldn't be safely done.

[Tim Rinehart]

Thanks to everyone for the comments so far.

Jeff:
- the Jet 1642 is indeed a variable speed machine

- I have turned balnks at the outer edge of this machine's inboard capacity - up to around 16" x 7" and understand the daunting nature of a big hunk moving. I cut them to round on my bandsaw first, so I usually have little problem with serious imbalance.

- I've never even heard of blocking up (well not on a lathe anyway - I do have a riser block on my bandsaw). Does anyone know if it's possible with a Jet?
Jeff, I have heard of someone doing that on a Jet 1642 and I almost did myself before getting a 3520. I was going to get a 1 to 1 1/2" chunk of aluminum, have it machined to provide sliding potential as headstock currently has, and maintaining adequate tie to the bed. I was going to get a larger rod to extend down to the hockey puck under the headstock and tailstock.
Depending on level of machining and thickness of block you get, you can machine the male/female slots or machine the female (top slot) in the shim block and bolt a guide onto the bottom.

Do I recommend this...errrr, no. But it can be done. Just realize that the bearings and other components haven't been built counting on someone doing this, or I would expect Jet or others would sell a riser block as they do for their bandsaws.

I think I've seen someone make an attached outboard stand utilizing the bolt holes in the end of the the bed or on the stand...here's one... http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1670

[Dale Bright]

Sean,

The outboard rest in Tim's posted link to the aaw site is made by Vicmarc and I have seen one attached to a 1642 and is is really nice. It is a little less money than the Powermatic and would be my choice if I were to purchase one.

Here is a pic of the one I made. It looks a little less sturdy than the Vicmarc or the Powermatic but in use it is quite stable and sturdy. I wanted to turn a lot of big bowls and platters but getting wood that big is not as easy as I first thought and I have found there isn't much use for bowls larger than 14 inches.

Dale

[Thomas Bennett]

of home made outboard rigs: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=101868
And another photo of my rig. Notice the toolpost connects with the floor and the outboard rig attaches to the lathe .

[Bob Bergstrom]

Here's another one I used on my old Delta. Table is 1/2" plate and banjo is 1" bar. If I were to do it again. I wood copy the banjo and table from the Vega 2600T Bowl Lathe
Making the banjo from bar stock would be a lot easier.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/bbergst/IMG_0299.jpg

[Gary Conklin]

Check these out.

http://docs.google.com/View?docID=d4b7vjd_20gb55hr&revision=_latest

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Here are a few more solutions of home made outboard setups.
154742 154743 154741

[charlie knighton]

If I bought the Powermatic stand, would my prayers be answered


yes, there are a lot of alternates, the powermatic stand is very nice, hard to find wood to use that is that size. i turn many more hf in the 6 to 8 inch width and height. i do have a piece of crotch cherry which will be ready soon, which is borderline needing the outboard by powermatic that i have.

[merrill worthington]

I have a Jet 1642 and have recently built an outboard tool rest. I don't have any photo's of it right now but I built mine out of Square tube and attached it to the end of the lathe. I borrowed the Idea from Baxter Smith. The tool rest works really well, I turned a 20" platter without any problems.

[Thom Sturgill]

- I've never even heard of blocking up (well not on a lathe anyway - I do have a riser block on my bandsaw). Does anyone know if it's possible with a Jet?
I remember from his show that David Marks had a lathe that had the head and tailstock raised with 2" blocks. You would need to extend the clamping mechanism and the post on the tool rests.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Sean, it doesn't do you much good, but I'm in the process of having a friend fabricate one that is similar to the Vicmarc. I'll use the bed extension bolt holes to fasten it to the lathe and it will have an articulated arm. It should be plenty robust. And a lot cheaper than the Vic or PM rests.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Okay, so this is what I heard somewhere, and I don't have any firsthand experience in this department.

According to someone somewhere, he had been using an old cast iron outboard stand, you know, from the 1950s or older. He either got rid of that one and needed a new one, or just wanted another in his shop, but he purchased a new model floor stand. Evidently the castings are of completely different quality, cuz the old one absorbed the shocks and vibrations wonderfully, whereas the new one vibrated and 'resonated' while turning.

Again, totally unsubstantiated, but it may be worth looking for an old floor stand. They're tough to find though.

Hutch

[Jake Helmboldt]

Matt reminded me of a detail that I plan for my articulated one: filling the main post with concrete.

Concrete has many times the dampening properties of iron and steel. And it will be easier and cheaper than using a big piece of solid bar stock. The same could be done if the main post on one of the free-standing rests is hollow.

[Roger Chandler]

Jet has an outboard tool stand and it is very similar to the PM stand, and is somewhat less expensive and has the mayo color as well.