Remote workshop

[Glenn Kotnik]

I need a new workshop. I'm currently in a 3-1/2 car garage which needs to hold a car or two in addition to my woodworking equipment. My equipment consists of 2 wooden workbenches with piles of clamps underneath, a 15 foot long row of cabinets with a wooden worksurface, a beautifully restored 1968 PM66 with granite extension table and unifence, a Laguna 18in. bandsaw, a stationary belt sander, a Delta 13in. surface planer on a stand, a router table on a stand, a Delta dust collector with a serpent pit of hose, an oak bench with a drill press, and the Big Grizz, a 12in. planer jointer. Also, about 200 bf hardwood lumber in the attic. Since we don't have enough space here on our 3/4 acre lot to build an adaquate workshop, I am contemplating building one on our 10 acre lot out in the boonies. That's 20 miles away and a 25 minute drive from the house. Has anyone else had a remote workshop? I couldn't just pop in, plane a few boards and go back to the house to chat with the wife, woodworking would be an all day affair or nothing. Does this sound practical or would I invest 40k in a workshop that I would rarely get to use.

[Erik Stol]

Glenn,

You do have .75 acre (=3000m2) where you cuurently live and you say you don't have space to built a seperate workshop. Well overhere in Holland you could build easily a workshop and 2 more house on top of it.

But to be serious. A workshop that is a 25 minute drive from the wife is too far (or not that depends) That will be lonely evenings/weekends for you as well as the wife. Try to be creative and construct it somewhere in your backyard.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I agree with Erik, I think you would be using the shop way too little to make the investment worthwhile. Of course if you built a weekend home and workshop on your 10 acres... You might end up with something that could work. (you could leave a smaller workshop at your weekday house.). Otherwise maybe you can get more creative and add on or add vertically to your current workshop. I'm sure with a few more details you can get tons of suggestions for that route.

[Thomas Bank]

I have a 1500 s.f. workshop as well as my house on a quarter acre in town...

For me, that would be too far away. I'd never get out there.

[Art Mulder]

It all depends on your personality, I suspect. I know that *I* would hate it.
I have a basement shop, and I frequently pop down there for 30-45 minutes at a time. You can't do that with a remote shop.

(And I know this is peripheral to the discussion, but I can already see that you are going to have a hard time convincing us that on a full 3/4 acre lot there isn't enough room for a 24x30 shop... I grew up on a 1 acre lot and I can visualize the tons of space there was on that piece.)

[Mitchell Andrus]

I'm with the rest.... too far for a 15 or 30 minute quickie after dinner. Sides, I don't think $40K will do it by a long shot. .....driveway, site work, foundation, underground utilities, drainage..... before you erect the building...... HVAC, electric. Some of us here have spent $10-12K just on a proper foundation and poured floor.

Just curious, even in the boonies, will they let you build an accessory building without a main structure on the lot?
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[Glenn Kotnik]

Yes, the land is agricultural and not much restriction. It's a beautiful lot with huge trees. We bought the 10 acres 3 years ago with the idea of building a retirement home and workshop there. Then the bottom fell out of the housing market and we would have to sell our present home at a fire sale price in order to move. As far as building a workshop here on our 3/4 acre lot, the problems include zoning restrictions, property line setbacks, neighborhood covenants, as well as the prospect of giving up my vegetable garden and cutting down the walnut and oak trees I've nurtured for almost 20 years. But it looks like everyone agrees that a remote workshop presents a lot of problems. Any other ideas?

[Erik Stol]

I think a lot of the folks around here are interested in your walnut and oak. Me too, but the shipping costs are a bit high?

But seriously, isn't there a way that you built a small building on your current estate? Try to find out with the zoning department what you can do instead of can't do. (Most times they do like that, thinking around with you) I am in that situation right now due to a change in the zoningplan for the townarea where I live.

[Mitchell Andrus]

the problems include zoning restrictions, property line setbacks, neighborhood covenants,

The same considerations drove me away from even considering 3/4 of the homes for sale when I was on the great house safari last year.
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[Brian Kincaid]

...We bought the 10 acres 3 years ago with the idea of building a retirement home and workshop there. Then the bottom fell out of the housing market and we would have to sell our present home at a fire sale price in order to move...

Sounds like you just need to wait a little while and follow through with the original plan.

If I had a remote workshop my tools might as well be in storage.
-Brian

[Tom Rossman]

It would cost a few bucks, but you could excavate under the garage and build a workshop there. You would be without a garage for a few months but you wouldn't have to cut down any trees nor would you run afoul of any set back provisions. Hopefully your house isn't built on an out cropping of granite...

[Brett Hoffman]

My wife and I are in a similar situation. We have a three car garage and we were out working on a project and she said, “Boy, it would be nice if we had a bigger shop” (We’re currently taking up all three stalls in our three car garage and we have three cars).

We only have a 1500 square foot house but it sits on a half-acre lot, which has plenty of room to build a nice sized shed, but due to zoning restrictions we can’t build anything else on the lot.

We could build a small 1 car garage sized shed, but to me that’s too small and it won’t add value to the house.

I don’t know your financial situation, but my plan is to pay off my house as soon as possible, and start saving as much money as possible to buy a bigger house where I can either build a really nice shop in a walk-out type of basement with a good dust collection system or an out building.

If you have $40k cash and you were planning on using that on building a new shop at the new location *I* would save it and keep adding to it so that you can use it to build your dream home or use it to pay off some of your mortgage on your house (re-fi and get a low rate, I just re-fi’d and got 4.50%). If you don’t have the cash and you were planning on borrowing it, I wouldn’t borrow the money because it just makes harder to get the end goal (of selling your house and moving to your nice new lot).

Thanks,

Brett

[Rob Russell]

We don't know how your house is laid out, but if the current 3 1/2 car garage is basically a single story structure, you might be able to raise the roof and put your workshop over the garage.

[Steve Peterson]

It is nice to be able to just drop in for a few minutes to get something done.

Another thing that nobody mentioned is the risk of theft at the remote site. It would be really sad if you planned a day for woodworking, drove across town, then found that all your tools had disappeared.

Steve

[Don Jarvie]

Doesn't everyone know the garage is no place for a car :D

An idea may be to park the wifes car in the garage and take over the other 2 bays. That would give you 20x20. You could even wall off the 1 bay so you have a separate shop. Just have the wall easy to tear down when you move.

Forget the remote shop. My fear would be one day you show up and theres nothing in the shop left.

[Art Mulder]

...As far as building a workshop here on our 3/4 acre lot, the problems include zoning restrictions, property line setbacks, neighborhood covenants,


... but due to zoning restrictions we can’t build anything else on the lot.

Are variances that hard for you folks?

I recently applied for a variance from my city to put a 2nd floor on our garage (for a bedroom). We need a variance because the garage (a 1-storey structure) is too close to the lot line for a 2-storey structure under our zoning.

The application, while a bit of complicated red tape, was actually totally painless. I went downtown, and sat in front of the c'tee for 10 minutes and got unanimous approval. Mine was classed as a "minor variance" I will admit.

As for the matter at hand, I would echo the two folks who asked about either putting a basement under, or a 2nd floor above, the current garage.

Lacking that, what about the rest of the basement? From your comments it sounds like retirement is at least being thought about, so I am *guessing* that a large family is not an issue. So can you convert the existing basement to a shop?

And of course like other said, the cheapest option now seems to be just leaving the cars outside... ;)

[Glenn Kotnik]

Wow, what a boatload of ideas to ponder! What? Someone wants to Wood Mizer the trees I raised from babys? There are plenty of other people around here who will butcher their children so I can build furniture.
I hadn't even considered the thought of excavating under the present garage, it makes more sense than building a shop over the garage but the cost would be huge. The present garage is 36x24 and has stone walls to match the house, so another matching structure would be expensive, not to mention replacing the concrete patio and drive which would be disrupted in the excavation, and the need for perimeter drain around the foundation and septic pump to keep the place dry. But the idea does have appeal.
As far as staying in the present shop, did I mention my sports car which I built myself and needs to stay inside? So in winter there are two vehicles to work around and hope a wooden missle dosn't fly off of my tablesaw and impale the side of my wife's car.
We have our present home paid off and have cash saved but I hope to retire in 5-8 years so I don't want to blow too much just yet. If we could get a fair price for our home we could move. But the market just keeps getting worse and worse. I agree, theft could be a problem, but our 10ac. lot is actually half of a 20ac. tract and the owner lives there and discourages tresspassers. Also, a sheriff's deputy lives 1/4 mile down the road and keeps his car in plain view. Most of the thefts in the area are dope fiends who steal anhydrous ammonia to make meth.
I can see from everyone's replys that I better sit back and think things over before I throw the switch and build a remote shop. Thanks for the help.

[Brett Hoffman]

Are variances that hard for you folks?


Yes, sometimes they are that hard. I have a restriction because I can’t build a structure within 100 feet of the power lines behind my house. I doubt I could get a variance because my whole house is restricted to 1,500 square feet (for a ranch) because of it and all the houses along the whole street are as well. I’m pretty sure there’s a good reason for it if they’re limiting all the house sizes for it, typically the minimum size houses for the neighborhood is 1,700 square feet, but they make an exception for the houses on my side of the street.

Then you have your home owners restrictions that you need to abide by and what they allow. In my particular sub division you can put in a shed, but it needs to be within the same architecture type as my house. Which I don’t have a problem with, there is another house in my neighborhood who put up a really nice looking a shed and I wish that I had one. I would put one up myself but the biggest I’m going to fit in the space is a 1 car garage size. My thought is to not bother and just work with what I have.

I knew all of this when I bought my house and I thought “buy low, sell low” I got a good price on the house and I will pay a minimal amount of interest on the mortgage, I will get equity faster, and best of all, my mortgage payment is $200/mo less than my rent payment, plus I get a three car garage that I can do my wood working hobby in. It also is a good neighborhood with a good local elementary school to send the kids to.

My dream home is something similar to what I have, but on a 3 acre lot that has at least a 1,500 square foot out building that has a second floor on it for storage and the first floor for a shop. That you can do wood working or any other hobby type thing you want. It would have water out to it too with a bathroom have heat and AC.

By the time I get that I’ll be like 90 or something though :)

Thanks,

Brett

[Jim Rimmer]

I concur with many of the posts:
1. Even with vigilant neighbors and cops on the street, I would worry about theft.
2. You can't run out for a 5 minute sanding bout or a quick glue-up.
3. Going to the shop would become less fun because you have to schedule it and stay for a long time to make the drive worthwhile.

I've considered the same thing and these are the reasons I ruled it out. You mentioned the matching stone issue, so this may not help. When I moved to Iowa, I added 16 ft. on to the back of a 2 car garage. However, the vinly siding was much easier and cheaper to match.

Good luck and let us kow what you end up with.

[Brett Hoffman]

As far as staying in the present shop, did I mention my sports car which I built myself and needs to stay inside? So in winter there are two vehicles to work around and hope a wooden missle dosn't fly off of my tablesaw and impale the side of my wife's car.

I have a sports car too and in the summer it sits outside and in the winter I put it inside to keep the snow off of it. When I want to work on a project I will take all three cars out and put them in the drive way and put them back when I’m finished. I know it sucks but it works.


We have our present home paid off and have cash saved but I hope to retire in 5-8 years so I don't want to blow too much just yet. If we could get a fair price for our home we could move. But the market just keeps getting worse and worse.

If you have your house paid for and are waiting for a “better price”, one thing to consider is that if you wait for your house price to rise you will also have the costs of building a new house rise as well.

One thing to consider is that right now we have very minimal inflation right now and the only thing the Fed can do now to stoke the economy is to print money. Just today they were talking that they might print a few trillion more to get some inflation going to try and inflate our way out of the economy mess.

As they print more money your home value will rise, but at the same time, so does building costs and also your mortgage rates. If you were planning on building a new house on your new lot, now might be a good time to start building because you can get low building costs (builders are looking to build homes right now, so you might be able to get some deals) and also you might be able to get locked in a good interest rate. The national mortgage rate right now is 4.64% for a 30-year and 4.10% for a 15 year.

If you were to start building I’m sure you could put your current house up to get the construction loan, once it’s completed you can roll the construction loan into a mortgage and maybe get a 4.something% interest rate. I’m sure you can work something out with the bank since your current house is paid for.

Another way of looking at this is, if your current house is worth $200k and you wait for it to rise 15% in value one would also think that your new house (let’s assume it’s worth $400k now) would also rise 15%. While you got an extra $30,000 in cash from selling your current house after the 15% rise, your new house would value also cost $60,000 more. If mortgage rates are higher at the time you’re borrowing $30k more in money at a higher interest rate.

Now there is also another thing to consider in life and it’s enjoyment in what you do. You said that you will be retiring in three years, so I’ll assume that you’re 62 right now. The housing market might not be any better and if you wait too long your health might not wait either. So by the time you’re finished waiting you could be 70 and wishing you had better health. Maybe having your dream home with your wife now might be worth some type of price too. It’s hard to put a value on something like that, maybe $10k? Maybe it’s only worth $10.00 or no value at all.

Maybe the time is “right now” to build your dream home, but then again, it depends on how much money you have.

So just because house prices are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t sell/buy a new one. Sometimes you buy low, you sell low too.

Now we could also be entering another recession too. – The plot thickens. – There’s a lot to consider and sometimes if you’re not the risky type, you have your home paid for; so long as you can make your property taxes you’re safe in any economy. – That’s worth something too.

Thanks,

Brett

[Zach England]

My lot would fit on yours nearly 8 times, and I have a shop (basement), 900 sq foot house, greenhouse, large vegetable garden and chicken coup/run. Granted, I have no lawn for my dog, no garage, and can touch my neighbors' houses by leaning out my windows.


I guess that didn't really help.

[Glenn Kotnik]

Good points, I haven't really thought it through so logically but it makes sense. Looks like my best bet would be to sit tight for awhile, mayby a year or two and see if it looks like we can make the move to a new home and build a new workshop. If we're stuck here until the Reaper comes, there is probably a way to squeeze a bigger shop in somewhere. I'd really love to have a builder build us a home that looks like a traditional midwest farmhouse and then build cabinets and woodwork in my shop to finish the inside. There's so much hardwood on Craigs list here in Indiana.
As to why I can't boot my sports car out and have more garage space, it's a '65 Cobra replica which I built, it has no top, no windows, no locks on the doors, just an old British sports car with a huge American engine, not a single computer chip in the thing, I could hot wire it in less than a minute with a couple of jumpers from Radio Shack.

[Brett Hoffman]

As to why I can't boot my sports car out and have more garage space, it's a '65 Cobra replica which I built, it has no top, no windows, no locks on the doors, just an old British sports car with a huge American engine, not a single computer chip in the thing, I could hot wire it in less than a minute with a couple of jumpers from Radio Shack.

Another thought is perhaps low cost storage for your car. My Dad stores one of his car at a different location than his home and when he wants to drive it he goes over there and takes it out for a spin. This would especially work out well for the winter since you probably wouldn’t drive it from Nov. to March/April

Brett

[Nathan Callender]

Build a shed for the sports car and misc other storage to clear out the garage (lawn equipment, etc). Or, use the shed to house the power tools for milling and do fitting, assembly and finishing in the garage. There is a great article on the finewoodworking site that describes a one car garage/shed shop. Very well organized and seems like it could be workable.