Powermatic 54HH issues

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Just got a new Powematic 54HH and the outfeed table is not parralell to the knives.

Since you cant adjust the knives how to you make the outfeed table parallle with the knives.


Oh I might add in. I have owned an used many joiners in the past and so far am not impressed with the Powermatic. Its Fit and Finish is no better than any other Chinese manufactured machine.

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

Sorry to hear of your problems. My first thought would be to have Powermatic get it to your satisfaction or return it.

I have about a 5 year old Powermatic 882 and it's been great. Maybe the best tool in my shop. I havent put a byrd head on it yet but I plan to.

Maybe I'll bump into you at some point as I'm very near you as I live in Ashburn.

PHM

[C Scott McDonald]

Sorry to here that. I got a 54HH and have had great luck with it. I am pretty sure there are screws or gibs or something that can adjust that.

Powermatic might be able to help.

It is a really nice jointer so hang in there and get it fixed up.

good luck,
Scott

[Van Huskey]

If I understand wouldn't this be standard shimming of a dovetail way jointer? You say you have owned many jointers I am guessing you have adjusted a dovetail way jointer at some point. Maybe I don't understand the problem.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Believe it or not I have not. Normally I make the out feed bed parallel with the blade by adjusting the knives then add about 1/1000 of an inch and away I go.

Never been an issue in the past. The problem is since the blades are not lined up with the out feed table its hard to get a square cut since it would be almost impossible to line up the fence with the blade inserts. What would help is an adjustment on the cutter.

I will call Powermatic tomorrow and see what they suggest.

[Van Huskey]

Are the infeed and outfeed tables coplaner?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Its within a few 1000ths from end to end. Just not coplainer with the blade.

[Van Huskey]

OK this is an interesting issue I have not run across. I do not know of a way to adjust the cutter head though there may be. You may have to shim both the infeed and outfeed tables to match the cutter head if indeed it is not adjustable. BTW how much out are we talking about?

[Rick Lizek]

If I understand your problem correctly you can shim under the bearing journals and adjust the head. One can see the solution by simply looking at the parts breakdown. It's a simple fix. You can get a cheap feeler gauge from an auto parts store for $5. I would not recommend the soda can fix. I keep a pack of assorted brass shim stock on hand as I work on machines. Simple quick fix.

[Paul McGaha]

How's it going with your jointer Michael?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Sorry I just got a new Leigh D24Pro and Accessory Pack and have been playing with that.

I have been using the jointer as it is (Raised the outfeed bed slighly) Since the Fence is Square with the table and not the blades I get a edge that is just a touch off. The only way you can tell is to do the edges of two boards then put them together. If the boards will go togehter nicly in any orientation along the cut edges you are golden.


Im not. I have to flip the boards. I think the best awnser is to shim the head. I am not up to this right now. Personaly I feel Powermatic should send someone to my house to do it.

Back when I purchased my 18" jet band saw, Jet sent out a local repair person to change the wheel bearings.


The funny thing is I purchased a Powermatic because I thought I would not have to go through this crap. Not true.

In retrospect I wish I had purchased a cheaper brand. I probably will never purchase a powermatic tool again.

Anyway got to get back to my dovetail jig. Its calling my name :)

[Ray McCullie]

Sorry but that's like owning a car and expecting it to never need repair. Man up and do some maintenance. New does not equal perfect and to expect it to be is asking too much. The people who make these machines are just workers in a factory. If it was something major it'd be different but this doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Bottom line if you are really unhappy with it, return the cutter head to Powermatic and have them send you a replacement. Just make sure it's the head that's off and not the base of the unit.

Hope you never have to deal with warped cast iron tables.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Bla .. Bla .. Bla

I have heard that all before. Bottom Line on a $1300 tool I should not have to tear is down go out an purchase shims to fix something that should have been done at the distribution center.

If I wanted to do that I would have purchased a Grizzly.

I have been doing woodworking for over 30 years and all I can say is it has gotten worse. It's the fact that you are willing to put up with this kind of crap is the reason the manufactures can get away with it.

As far as manning up. I will eventually tear the darn thing down and fix it but its my right as a consumer to purchase the rest of my tools elsewhere.

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

I'm sure you know best for your situation.

If this was happening to me though I think I would be trying to have Powermatic make the tool right in all aspects, rather than trying to fix it myself, and if they couldnt (or wouldnt) I would return it and buy a different jointer.

I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction.

PHM

[Joseph Tarantino]

michael...if it's new, why not just return it? i'm in your camp..not a big fan of jet, powermatic or wilton. i find them to be long on promise, short on delivery and overpriced relative to: a) what they give you and b) the other products out there. like you, i will never purchase a walter meier tool group (parent of the above brands) again.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I think I am going to do just that. I purchased it through woodcraft and they will back me up. I will let you all know what happens.

[Van Huskey]

Maybe I missed it but have you talked to PM? The few times in the past I have needed CS they sent someone out. I would say you have a perfect right to be upset and return the machine if you aren't happy. I am just curious if PM has had an oportunity to rectify the issue.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Powermatic Tech support told me the following: (Para phrased)

"You should never have to shim this jointer and it is not recomended as the tables are milled as a single unit.

Adjust the gibs slightly One in and one out. This can change the relation to the knives. The instructions are in the manual."

Ok this sounds reasonable. Just two gibs on the outfeed table. Went to the manual. It says to adjust the gibs if the table develops play.

Here is the real deal.

The manual shows two gibs on the outfeed table. My joiner has 4' One near the bottom and 3 near the top with a thumb screw in the middle.

I can get to three of the gib lock nuts but not the highest one. This not only requires me to remove the fince assembly but the main support base. This I am not willing to do.

On tuesday I will call support and see what happens.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I contacted Powermatic once again and advised them that I was unwilling to tear the joiner down in a attempt to adjust the gibs.

The made arrange ments to have a local authorized repair rep to come out and adjust/repair/return the joiner at my convieniounce.

I have to say if they get it adjusted then the extra $ I spent for powermatic was worth the money.

Bottom Line if you purchase a name brand unit like Jet, Powermatic or Delta you should have certain expectations. You pay a premium for this.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Sorry but that's like owning a car and expecting it to never need repair. Man up and do some maintenance. New does not equal perfect and to expect it to be is asking too much. The people who make these machines are just workers in a factory. If it was something major it'd be different but this doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Bottom line if you are really unhappy with it, return the cutter head to Powermatic and have them send you a replacement. Just make sure it's the head that's off and not the base of the unit.

Hope you never have to deal with warped cast iron tables.

I just purchased a $40,000 car and I can guarantee you if it needs a repair not only is the dealer going to fix it. He is going to loan me a car while he does.

The problem I have with my joiner is like purchasing a new car that is badly missalligned. You can bet I am not going to get out my tools and align it myself.

[C Scott McDonald]

Can I have a ride in your new car???

I kid I Kid...

I have a 54hh and it was dead flat when I got it. So I am sure they can make yours do the same. When it is fixed it really is an awesome jointer.

Scott

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Im using it with the fence square to the cutter. So I can edge joint as long as its against the fence. I love how it works and am wondering what the cost to convert my Jet 15"

[Chip Lindley]

I do sympathize with Michael! If I had just spent large COIN on a brand new shiny mustard-yellow jointer, I would be more than mildly irrate also, if such a misalignment was found. For what does that mustard color demands such a premium??

It's been over 20 years since I purchased a brand new machine in the crate, so I count it normal in a day that all my used machines require some amount of tinkering and adjusting. I do it proudly and gladly.

But, a brand new misaligned jointer head is quite beyond "new machine setup". Chances are, there is a fleck of paint or other trash in one journal seat. Quick fix to unbolt, and clean, or shim as needed, then get on with life! But some insist upon "perfect" out of the crate when they have paid top dollar! Michael is well within his rights and expectations.

Were I in Michael's boat, I certainly would be HOT after Powermatic to make this all right, ASAP, before I sent the machine back for refund. Absolutely NO reason to put up with crap in your mustard!!

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I have owned 2 Craftman and a Grizzly joiners in the past. Both worked out of box with only minor adjustments.

The 54HH would have as well if it did not have the hielical head. I would have simple adjusted the knives to match the outfeed table.

As I stated earlyer I was thinking of replacing my Jet 15" cutter head with a hielical head but now I may just sell the planer and pick up a new one. Depending how this goes will dictate if its gold or green.

So far it looks good the local repair rep will contact me sometime today for a date and time for the house call.

[Jim Eller]

Michael,

I have had great service from Powermatic(WHM Tool Group).

I had a 15HH planer that I had issues with. That being, it would not do what the specs said.

The field service rep and WHM did everything in their power to make it right, including changing major parts. They had more money in that machine than I paid for it. They finally sent a carrier to pick it up and gave me a refund. I then purchase a 209HH.

All companies have a "problem child" machine now and then and I have had some. But I would be hard pressed to find another company that came close to giving me the service I received from WHM Tool Group.

Just my experience and two cents.

Jim

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

The repair man is coming out tommorow affternoon. We shall see what happens.

[Jon Bonham]

Sorry but that's like owning a car and expecting it to never need repair. Man up and do some maintenance. New does not equal perfect and to expect it to be is asking too much. The people who make these machines are just workers in a factory. If it was something major it'd be different but this doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Bottom line if you are really unhappy with it, return the cutter head to Powermatic and have them send you a replacement. Just make sure it's the head that's off and not the base of the unit.

Hope you never have to deal with warped cast iron tables.


That's ludicrous and probably one of the worst analogies I've ever read on an internet forum.

It's not like buying a new car and expecting to not ever do maintenance. It's like buying a new car and then having to have the rotors turned on the way home from the dealership because they're warped.

[Lewis Cobb]

Michael,

I have had great service from Powermatic(WHM Tool Group).

I had a 15HH planer that I had issues with. That being, it would not do what the specs said.

The field service rep and WHM did everything in their power to make it right, including changing major parts. They had more money in that machine than I paid for it. They finally sent a carrier to pick it up and gave me a refund. I then purchase a 209HH.

All companies have a "problem child" machine now and then and I have had some. But I would be hard pressed to find another company that came close to giving me the service I received from WHM Tool Group.

Just my experience and two cents.

Jim

Jim - Similar story at this end. And to say I have received great customer service from WMH regarding PM machines is a ridiculous understatement.

I bought 4 brand new PM machines about 2 years back. I'm Canadian and to save some raping by the shipping companies and brokerage houses, I took delivery in the US close to the border and hauled 'em all back up here on my buddy's float trailer. Checking with PM before I did this, I was told they would look after me if I needed warranty work. I had no idea just how true that was.

3 of the machines came out of the crate and set up without a hitch. Then came the PM2000 - it was pitted badly on the table under the packing grease. I called WMH and talked to a tech rep - I asked them if they sent a new top, could I install it. WMH's response - a brand new saw on it's way to me - right to my door here in Canada - they also picked up the other saw and trucked it back to TN. The shipping on that 600 pound crate - 2 ways - not to mention the cross border foolishness could not have been cheap.

Then came the extension wings - the first set were warped, the first replacements we're screwed up as well - WMH just kept pounding sets of them up to me until I got 2 good ones. The third replacement set came damaged as they broke out of the cardboard boxes. The final (and perfect) set then came in a custom built crate big enough to hold most contractor saws !!

Wait - There's more ! - The fence rail was slightly bent - I got a complete fence rail assembly minus the fence - the front and back angles, and the tube.

By this time, there had been so many 18 wheel tractor trailer deliveries to my house with the blasts of air brakes and "beep-beep-beep" of reversing horns in the normally peaceful neighborhood, I am sure the neighbors were convinced I had a serious drug production lab or something going on in the house.....

At the end of the process, the saw was humming away and I was beaming with pride at all my new toys and I asked the WMH tech guy (who was pretty much an old friend by the time the ordeal was over) if I should bundle all the replacements up and send them back but he said "keep 'em" - maybe you can use them somewhere else someday :eek:

Anyway, that's my experience with the folks at WMH.

Cheers,
Lewis

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I just found out the Fenc on this Joiner is not flat. If I put a precision ruler on it and can slide a Buisness card in the center.

Well looks like one more thing that they will have to replace.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

She is all adjusted and running pretty good. They removed the fenc mount assembly (including bottom slide) and using just the jibs got it pretty close.

The fenc was not twisted so they were able to tweek the points that tie the fence to the upper slide rack. This pulled the fence strait for the most part but near the end on the infeed side its not quit square. I will see if this causes problems down the line. If so I can just order another fence.

We did some test cuts and all looks good at this point. So it looks like Powermatic has made good on their quality support.

I will also add that the repair men (they sent two) said they just dont do a lot of Powermatic service calls as most are spot on.

This guy runs a rockler store in Winchester and he says they put the tools together and deleiver them all set up to the customers shop. I know where I am going to purchase my nest large tool.

[Paul McGaha]

Michael,

i'm glad to hear this story had a good ending.

Good that Powermatic took care of you.

Just a guess but probably all the tool companies have cases like this and how they respond is important.

PHM

[ron ogle]

Have 8 inch powermatic with byrd cutters.Cutters are great ,jointer is not.Just another off shore piece of junk painted gold.powermatics good name is done for.it took me several hours to get the tables close to lined up.One of the locking set screws was missing.the tables had to be sanded down to 1200 grit to get the wood to slide on it.the fence is not flat and when face jointing the wood would sometimes catch on the edge of the opening where then plastic insert for sliding the fence is.I had to take fence apart and file down edge so it didnt catch.Cast iron tables were not cured and after about 50 ft of hickory was face jointed has many sctratches in it! Also cutterhead eighth inch less than 8 inch.It is just another Grizzly with gold paint and inflated price tag.When I started to try and level the tables I called powermatic because there is no round cutterhead to set the outfeed table with and they told me just to set on a level floor and adjust the outfeed table to level.I then new I was in trouble. Also the sides of the infeed table look like they were cut with a cutting torch and not finished which causes the table to be very jerky when trying to raise and lower. So let this be a warning to stay away from Meir tool group as they are just using powermatics good name.

[Lewis Cobb]

Michael -
Glad to hear alls well at last.
Fire up some gloat pictures when you have the chance !
Cheers,
Lewis

[Van Huskey]

Glad to hear they took care of you! One of the big plusses for spending the extra money on PM stuff is the "come to you" service when it is warranted.

[glenn bradley]

The repair man is coming out tommorow affternoon. We shall see what happens.

That is excellent. I have read good things about PM's service and am glad to read another.

[Mark Carlson]

What Rick said. I put a bryd head on a 54A and thats what I did. Should take all of 10 minutes.

~mark


If I understand your problem correctly you can shim under the bearing journals and adjust the head. One can see the solution by simply looking at the parts breakdown. It's a simple fix. You can get a cheap feeler gauge from an auto parts store for $5. I would not recommend the soda can fix. I keep a pack of assorted brass shim stock on hand as I work on machines. Simple quick fix.

[Denis Kozlov]

Hi to all,

I recently got 54HH and I think my out-feed table is not parallel to knifes too.
If I put straight edge and on out-feed table and rotate knife, it gets pulled 2/16in on one side (fence side) and 4/16in on the outer side.
you can check this video (https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D1256974_117_824760898?directDownload=true) I captured. Can someone check it and let me know if I should contact PM in my case. I want my jointer to be perfectly adjusted. Thanks in advance.

[Andrew Hughes]

That's too far out. It will be impossible to get a square edge off the fence.

[Denis Kozlov]

I just called to PW, they suggested that I do adjustments myself using gib screws.
They said it is my job to adjust the tool after I get it and they have noting to do unless there is some problem.
As author of this topic mentioned, I have to take off fence in order to do it. They didn't sound it is a big of the problem.

[Denis Kozlov]

Some more details: I used dial indicator to check misalignment and it was 0.005in difference between out-feed table and knife (different sides). On the other hand, out-feed and in-feed tables are straight to each other (less than 0.001in difference). It means that table beds are good and if I will try to reset out-feed table like Powermatic support suggested it will mess with in-feed and out-feed tables alignment. Unless I want to realign both tables sides (don't think it is a good idea). It sounds to me that knife is shifted and it shim knife or something like that makes more sense. Should I try to call again to Powermatic support or try to return item if it is not too late (ordered on Amazon)?

Crazy guess: knife lower on puller side, can it be that the belt tension is too tight so it pulled knife down?

[Mark Carlson]

Your tables are flat and aligned, I wouldn't touch them. I'd slip a .005 in shim under the low bearing and that should do it. It should be as easy as loosening a bolt that holds the bearing slip in shim and retighten. When I converted my 54a over to using a byrd head, I had to shim one side to get the head parallel. Good luck.

[Denis Kozlov]

Thanks Mark, I shimmed one side of cutter and it seems worked just fine.

[CPeter James]

This is one reason that I am not a fan of insert cutterheads. I have worked on a Grizzly 12" jointer with the insert head. This was Grizzly's top of the line with the adjusting handles/wheels in the base cabinet. It is the parallelogram type jointer and it is not possible to get the table coplaner because you run out of adjustment in the offset bushings. There are factory installed shims under the cutterhead, but to loosen the bolts the secures the bearing to the jointer, you have to lift the jointer off the base. Piece of cake except all the linkage to the adjusting handles has to be undone and a bunch more stuff undone and removed just to access that bolt and make the required shim placements. I figure one long day and maybe two to do the job. This is not my first trip around the block as I work on machinery all the time.
CPeter

[Mark Carlson]

Very easy to do on a powermatic 54. Cant speak to other machines. Well worth the effort to not have to adjust knives ever again.

[glenn bradley]

Different strokes. I bought a P-bed machine because I never wanted to fool with dovetail ways again. We all have our peeves. The insert head was partially a financial decision. It has paid for itself a couple of times to date. With the Powermatic being 40% more than the competition I too would expect something better.

[Curt Brown]

Maybe time has improved the Powermatic products. I have a 2017 60HH (8") helical head jointer. This tool has beautiful castings, was perfectly aligned, and the inserts cut flawlessly. I've run maybe 1000 board feet of mahogany and cherry, and compared to my other shop equipment, this jointer comes closest to being exactly what you would want.
Other stuff includes PM2000 saw w/ router lift, 2800B drill press, Laguna 1412 bandsaw, Jet floor standing mortiser, DeWalt 735 planer, etc.