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View Full Version : Holtey Unboxing



Nicholas Dalberg
06-28-2010, 2:49 AM
My new tools
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnbxgzhvZyY

Rick Markham
06-28-2010, 5:39 AM
:D <---- Green with envy!!! Those are amazing... You sure are lucky! My bank account had a stroke just watching that video...:eek:

mike holden
06-28-2010, 7:36 AM
Nicholas,
Congratulations!
Now show us what you can do with them.
Mike

David Weaver
06-28-2010, 7:56 AM
Very Nice!

Zach England
06-28-2010, 8:21 AM
I am guessing this is the type of thing where if I have to ask I can't afford it.

David Weaver
06-28-2010, 8:26 AM
Just under $26,000 at current conversion rates.

Rick Markham
06-28-2010, 9:17 AM
The no 982 (the last one shown) is listed as "I make no apology for the price of £5,300 as these planes are made in a limited edition to the highest tool room standard" (just under $8000.) But you should spend some time reading his blog on his site.

Especially if you have any interest in building planes from the "ground" up. Definitely an artisan making exceptional tools that are also works of art! There is a smidge of ego in there... but when you are arguably one of, if not the best, at your trade I suppose it is to be expected.

They certainly are beautiful planes! At that price I would never be able to afford them, even knowing that they will most likely only become more valuable. Personally, I want a Ron Brese plane. Having met him and talked with him, at the very least I can say that he is an inspiring artisan as well, and one hell of a good guy!

Thanks for posting this video! I will enjoy reading Hotley's blog for quite awhile, his engineering is brilliant and fascinating in the very least! The fact that he is single handedly the only one who builds his planes is in and of itself inspiring, let alone that his merger of modern technology with hand tools/ craftsmanship is masterful (a major understatement.) The simple fact that each plane is over 200 hours of his craftsmanship justifies the price point. His blog is definitely a gold mine, especially his description of his machining and how it's out of "neccesity" as opposed to luxury, especially in regards to flattening the sole of a plane.

Edit to add: Y'all need to look through the blog and take a look at Hotley's take on a wooden transitional plane it really is pretty spectacular!

Nicholas Dalberg
06-28-2010, 12:42 PM
Nicholas,
Congratulations!
Now show us what you can do with them.
Mike
ok Can do I made a copy of the H. O. Studley toolbox with ebony and mother of pearl used ivory etc I will post a pic when I can get a scan as I have a old time photo of it being made before it sold to a Gent in the states

David Weaver
06-28-2010, 1:39 PM
Certainly won't get any disagreement from me on Karl's prices, I don't see anyone else making planes as precisely as a sole source of income.

A couple of attempts at making infills so far humbles me pretty quickly in terms of nailing those details, and then doing it on every single plane. Just things like avoiding any marks at all on the inside of the sidewalls on the planes, having superbly tidy corners and transitions in every pin and tail, and having no stray abrasive scratches anywhere on the woodwork...that kind of perfect is not on the menu for a hobbyist making their own planes, let alone trying to rehab an old casting based plane with dried up wood and a big mouth.

IF I could get away with it, I would buy an A13. I've gotten away with a lot, but that got a threat of divorce :(

You can make a perfectly servicable infill smoother, though, if you have a machinst vise, a couple of files, a cheap carbide scribe and a hacksaw. The addition of a brese lever cap and iron takes some of the work out of it for the lever cap, and makes sure you have a super high-quality iron (one custom made by hock if I am mistaken - and the two thick single irons I've gotten of hock origin have been to my subjective senses a cut above the french bench plane irons). There won't be holtey-esque fit and finish, though, and likely not even wood as good as karl gets. Looking at the transitionals, I have no idea where he gets some of his woods, but they are spectacular. It took me almost two years to find a dry block of cocobolo that was rift sawn and large enough to build my first (loosely interpreted) a13 style plane.

Rick Erickson
06-28-2010, 2:01 PM
I'm glad I read this thread. It makes me feel a WHOLE LOT better about my recent Ron Brese purchase.

Rick Markham
06-28-2010, 4:37 PM
Rick, LOL, my thoughts exactly... This thread totally justified me saving for one! I am planning on getting a kit first LOL, that beautiful stainless panel plane he makes is downright inexpensive in comparison. Having had the priveledge of taking it for a test drive, I would be hard pressed to say there could possibly be any plane by any maker that could out perform his, certainly not 4x as much.

James Taglienti
06-28-2010, 5:02 PM
Nicholas- you must be just over 250 years old huh?

Matt Bickford
06-28-2010, 5:06 PM
You should consider buying a chair, too.

Those look great!

David Weaver
06-28-2010, 5:08 PM
Caveat with me having not used a brese or holtey plane.

But, if Ron's planes are made the way I think they're made, and I'm pretty sure I know how that is, there really isn't anywhere to go with performance.

I don't know how big the mouth is on his smoothers, but I'm going to guess it's small enough that it does the job of preventing any appreciable tearout.

Karl's powder metal irons may hold an edge a little longer, and he's using an adjuster, and one from what I understand that has no equal. One only has to use the adjuster on a shepherd kit for about 15 seconds before they start thinking of all of the things that a holtey adjuster could and would be (and I'm sure they are, because the man even makes everything that has threads in house).

That, and you get traditional construction as precisely as it has ever been done anywhere, with a superb adjuster, something Ron is very clear is expensive to do in a reasonable cost plane.

It's like the difference between a supercharged japanese luxury car and an italian supercar. Both are well made. One is made with cost having no determination in construction. In terms of how well each planes - i'd bet that the sharpness of the iron in either would be the determining factor regarding which would outplane the other on any given day.

I'd love to have one of each to see if I'm right in all of my assumptions above. It'll never happen, though, unless someone wills one of each to me.

Nicholas Dalberg
06-28-2010, 5:15 PM
We dalbergias live a long time as you full well know!
can I post a small file size photo on this forum? I turned up one of the smithsonian tool box I made when they refused my offer on the original! I thought if I cant have it ille make my own. I ordered the Toolbox Book by taunton press and reverse engineered from the photo using the ruler shown in the Original box as a reference to work out the sizes.

David Weaver
06-28-2010, 5:23 PM
Fantastic looking box!

Rick Markham
06-28-2010, 6:56 PM
David, I agree it would be wonderful to try both of them out.

Remember the panel plane on a string from Jameel that was posted here, that was Ron's panel plane, and having tried it first hand it does its job nearly effortlessly (it isn't an infil, and your right his infills have no adjusters. He mentions why on his website.) The Hotley and Brese planes are kind of Apples and Oranges, that both accomplish the same task in different ways (yet still similar) and with a slightly different philosophy behind each.

The chances of me ever getting an opportunity to try a Hotley plane are probably nill in my lifetime. Though I would love to try one. I have no experience with the adjuster, but Hotley's innovation just from perusing his blog, simply blows my mind! There is no doubt that they are worth every asking penny!

One of Ron's goals is: "My goal is to provide very fine planes that a larger segment of the woodworking population can purchase and enjoy" So their goals for their planes are very different. Hotley mentions several times in his blog, how these are revolutionary and the best techniques for building infils in the history of plane making. Both gentlemen are obviously perfectionists, Hotley is definitely in search of ultimate perfection, overall cost has nothing to do with his quest. (not at all a bad thing) I think his blog is his intention to pass his legacy on to a future generation. It is an admirable task at hand (and a daunting one) Ron even mentions he uses Hotley's design of integrated rivets for attaching the sole, without a doubt, Hotley is at the very least, an inspiration in his planes and definitely an influence.

I think it is pretty amazing what truly focused individuals can accomplish, and Nicholas, that is a beautiful chest! Your a deserving craftsman as well!

Darnell Hagen
06-28-2010, 11:28 PM
Did anyone else wince when the shoulder plane toppled next to the smoother?

As a person who clearly prefers the correct tool for the job, you need a Slice (http://www.leevalley.com/US/gifts/page.aspx?p=64178&cat=4,104,53217&ap=1). :D

Rick Markham
06-28-2010, 11:32 PM
Ron even mentions he uses Hotley's design of integrated rivets for attaching the sole, without a doubt, Hotley is at the very least, an inspiration in his planes and definitely an influence.

I need to clarify, Ron Brese contacted me with the skinny on this, I got this wrong, and I want to make sure that everyone knows what the skinny is. Ron told me:
"Just wanted to clarify something about the way I assemble my plane bodies. I had been using my method while Karl was still milling integrated rivets in the sole on his 98 plane. Then when he introduced his 985 he was assembling them with threaded pins. I don't think Karl copied my method, I think we just both came about this method during the same period of time. Just wanted to make it clear that I did not copy his method and I was in fact using this method prior to his introduction of the 985."

So my appologies for my error ;)

David Weaver
06-29-2010, 7:59 AM
Did anyone else wince when the shoulder plane toppled next to the smoother?


No way, first ding breaks the plane in and makes you less worried about putting another ding in it.

I like to leave some dings on non critical plane parts before I start working with them, then I don't walk around the shop staring at them while I carry them to make sure they don't bump into anything.

David Keller NC
06-29-2010, 11:25 AM
As someone that has one foot in the "get 'er done" theory of the woodworking shop, and one foot in the tool-collecting crowd, I'd say that Karl's products aren't generally about performance. They do indeed perform flawlessly to the extent that it is possible for a plane to perform, but an awful lot of the cost of his planes are aesthetic - for folks that have an appreciation for the beauty of a well-made infill plane, and will accept no compromises.

I've a similar viewpoint, though my bank account supported the purchase of Konrad Sauer planes, not Karl's. But one can get a beautiful, completely traditional infill at far less than Karl's in the form of an antique Norris. To do so, one has to be patient, overlook all of the trashed examples with replaced blades, broken and repaired wood, and trashed adjusters, and be willing to spend about $700 for an A5, or about $1700-$2300 for an A6 (it's a rarity thing - A5s were more commonly made, even though the A6 is easier to make).

One nice thing about getting a high-end Norris, Spiers, or Mathieson plane is that they generally hold their value with no depreciation, unlike even Karl or Bill Carter's work - primarily because they're already "used".