First Bandsaw

[Andre Cormier]

Well the time has come where I would like to buy a band saw. Only problem is that I've never used one before so I'd appreciate a bit of help from you guys to help in my buying decision.



I'm not sure how much I want to spend on it because I'm just not sure how much I will use it. One person I talked to said that he uses his band saw much more than he expected when he added one to the shop. All I know is that whenever I'm working on something I often say "a band saw would be nice right now". I'm also planing on working with rough lumber in the future so re-saw will help.


Although they are different tools a table saw is the only thing I have to compare it too.............


1. I know it depends on what you mostly work on but since you added a ban saw to your shop how much do you use it vs the table saw?


2. For the same size and type of wood how is the cutting speed when compared to a table saw.


3. As I understand it a ban saw is not exactly a precision tool and needs to be tuned and operated correctly to get favorable results. Do the pieces cut with a band saw always need to be reworked or can you get a good flat and straight cut? For example, when re-sawing, do you need to run it in the jointer or can you go straight to the planer?


I would like to get a saw that I won't feel the need to upgrade too soon but at the same time I still need to buy a jointer and a dust collector.

On the top of my list is the grizzly 513x2 and it fits my budget nicely. Is the 150$ difference worth it for the Brake option? (513x2)



I am somewhat of a newbie woodworker and trying to get a better understanding of the band saw's uses and limitations.


Looking forward to your comments......


Thanks

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Andre,

Do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon and purchase The New Complete Guide to the Band Saw: Everything You Need to Know About the Most Important Saw in the Shop (http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Guide-Band-Saw/dp/1565233182/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277333215&sr=1-1) by Mark Duginske

It is currently selling for $13.57 and worth 3 times that.

In fact, I bought my first copy from Fox Chapel, the publisher. I loaned it to a friend and for understandable reasons it never came home. I purchased my 2nd copy from Amazon.

It is an invaluable resource on bandsaws......and...it even has a chapter on how to buy a bandsaw.....what to look for....etc.

It is an incredible reference manual.

Good luck with your purchase!

BTW....No affilation with the writer, publisher or Amazon.

[Kent A Bathurst]

......Do yourself a favor.........

Bingo, Ken.

[Angie Orfanedes]

That's good advice from Ken.

Just some random observations. I use my bandsaw for a lot of quickie, non-critical cuts because it is easier than cranking up the blade on my table saw, and getting involved with fences, etc (but always wear you safety glasses and never let your fingers get near the blade). Now having said that, if it is a straight line cut that you are after, nothing beats a table saw. I guess on a finely tuned band saw, you can kinda get a straight cut, but it does not compare to a table saw cut. The band saw of course excels at curvy cuts (this is the technical term, I believe). A lot of cuts that you struggle to make with a sabre saw/jig saw are a breeze with a band saw. With a 1/4 inch blade you can cut some very small curves.

I have owned a Ridgid 14 inch bandsaw for 10 years (1 hp, I think), and it has been one of my most useful tools. Other than a new blade now and then, it has been trouble free.

[Mike Cruz]

Andre, Ken nailed it. Good advice, take it.

To answer some of your questions, I love the BS and can't imagine a shop without one. It is, to me, a whole different breed than a TS. You CAN rip with a BS, but if you want the kind of quality ripping/resawing that will produce material that can go straight to the planer, you will likely need a better BS than the one you are looking at. There is NOTHING wrong with the model you mentioned, but for real top quality, you are probably talking about much more expensive machinery.

A 14" band saw with a riser block (giving you 12" resaw capacity) will give you the ability to both cut curves and resaw. However, that usually requires blade changes. A 1/4" to 3/8" blade for everyday BS use (curves), and a 1/2" for resaw. The 14" model can do both, but is better for the smaller blades and curves.

Oh, and cutting speed is generally much slower with a BS. Mainly because it is a different kind of cut.

Good quality blades, and ones that have the appropriate kinds and number of teeth for what you want to do can also determine the level of quality to your cut. A very good BS that is properly set up with a very good blade can create a surprisingly nice cut.

I use my BS's (one 14" and one 18") for rough cutting. I don't expect finished quality out of them. What I do expect out of them is to do what my other tools won't. What a BS is supposed to do. Cut curves, and cut stock thinner than it is when it is too thick for my TS.

Again, take Ken's advice and get that book. Read up on what BS's do. And figure out what you want out of it. Personally, I hate blade changing, that is why I have two saws...each set up differently. You may not have an issue with it.

[Andre Cormier]

I've taken the advice and have done myself a favor..... The book is on it's way.

I'm sure the book will be great but your comments here are excellent as well.

The 555 with a riser block had interested me as well but for the price difference, it seemed that the 513x2 was a better buy.

Will the 17" cut curves as well as the 14" with the appropriate size blade?

Thanks

[Mike Archambeau]

Do yourself a BIG favor. Go to the SMC classifieds and purchase the MM16 Band Saw listed there for 1700 dollars. That is a good price for one of the best band saws ever built. I have one just like it and it is amazing.

Get the book Ken suggested, right after you bring home that MM16. btw Ken has the MM16 himself.















b

[Lance Norris]

Andre... first off... Welcome. I have 2 bandsaws and use them both quite often. I have a Grizzly steel frame saw(go457) that I keep a large blade in for resaw and rip cuts and I have a Ridgid that I keep an 1/8" blade in for bandsawn boxes and curves.

1. I use my bandsaws more than my cabinet saw. If I were starting over, I probably could get by without a table saw, but that is related to the type of work I do... mostly hobby. If I did cabinet work for a living, a table saw would be a must.

2. Cutting speed is probably slower on the bandsaw, but that is somewhat related to the power your bandsaw has. My Ridgid is 3/4 horse and my Griz is 2 horse. The Griz cuts much faster than the Ridgid, if setup with the same blade and doing the same type of cut.

3.The bandsaw does not give you a "glue up" type cut, which is possible with the right blade on a table saw. When set correctly though, it will give you a very good cut with minimal rework needed. Thats not to say that a few swipes with some sand paper and you are ready to make airtight joints, but I can clean up a resawn face fairly quickly with sanding and no need for the jointer or planer.

I like steel frame saws over cast iron frame saws. They tension blades better, giving better results for resaw. Buy the saw that has as much horsepower as you can afford... 2 horse is a good power rating. It sure helps to have the power when you are resawing something 10". My go457 can resaw to capacity with ease, and when cutting dense, oily exotic hardwoods, it has the power to get the job done easily.

[Lance Norris]

Will the 17" cut curves as well as the 14" with the appropriate size blade?


Yes it will

[Joseph Tarantino]

whatever you do, don't get a jet or powermatic product. they are brands marketed by the william meier tool group and they have a history of being long on promise, short on delivery, fairly expensive relative to other products and therefore a poor value while also having completely ineffective dealers and well intentioned but substandard technical support staff. if you need any technical, not customer, support, you are on your own for anything other than assistance with broken parts replacement.

contact lou iturra of iturra design. he'll steer you in the right direction. as for duginske's book, i didn't find it particularly helpful. if you can get a copy of an iturra design catalog, you can probably get more useful information than you can from duginske's book. my copy of his book made great tinder for the first fire of last winter.

iturra doesn't have a website, but he can be reached here:

http://www.manta.com/c/mmc3znn/iturra-design

lou iturra has probably forgotten more than any of us will ever know about band saws and all related topics. if i was to replace my BS, i'd look at the rikon 10-325. 14" resaw, powerful motor and, from postings on the web, great customer and technical support. HTH. good luck.

[Matthew Hills]

Duginske's book is good. He also had a good video published by FWW.

The Woodsmith guys have an hour-long primer on the bandsaw: Podcast #22: Buying & Getting the Most Out of Your Band Saw (http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/06/08/podcast-22-buying-getting-the-most-out-of-your-band-saw/)

Some other tidbits to toss out:
- I feel that bandsaw dust is much more of an irritant than tablesaw dust. Many bandsaws don't have effective dust collection, so this is a nuisance for me.
- I've heard good things about carbide blades, but don't have one myself. (seem to be favored by guys with big saws; some say they like the quality better)
- pay attention to the guides. adjusting these is important, and the style can limit what blade sizes you can use.
- stopped cuts are easy on bandsaw.

I'd think you might be best served by a tricked-out 14" delta bandsaw that is getting sold by a woodworker who is moving up in size. You'll get better value on the used market, and most woodworkers would be happy to give you a bit of a tour of their faithful companion (don't let them get too nostalgic, though, as they may decide to keep both)

Grizzly bandsaws seem to be pretty popular with the value-oriented woodworkers who want to buy new. 14" and 17" models seem quite popular.

Matt

[Dave MacArthur]

Look at the thread in my signature, a lot of band saw buying threads in there.
G0513X2--that is THE saw I'd recommend if your budget allows it. HOWEVER, the G0513p (white painted G0513) is on sale for $695, smoking deal, it just doesn't have the cast iron. I'd buy the 513X2 if you have the $$. THere are two threads now on 513p, read them and just BUY the saw (either one), you'll see your exact question on purchasing answered there.

NO, the B brake option is NOT worth it (motor brake), if you can get a foot brake instead.

And yes, if you can remotely spring for the $1700 and are near that MM16, that's a good deal probably, if you're thinking about spending anywhere close to that amount.

[Cary Falk]

I love my G0513X2.

[Billy Trinh]

I'm in the same boat as you. Just got a 513x2 yesterday and still tuning it but loving it so far.

[Mike Cruz]

Andre, yes the 17" will cut curves like the 14", however the larger the saw, usually, the larger the blades. What I mean by that is that the larger saws seem to like the larger blades. I have heard a couple folks say that the large saws don't like 1/8" blades. The guides tend to be set up for 1/2" and larger blades, so when you put the narrow ones on, the saw isn't as "happy". The curve is determined by the blade, not the saw. There is a chart somewhere (probably in every BS manual) that tells you the radius of each size blade's cut.

[Brian Kincaid]

Do yourself a BIG favor. Go to the SMC classifieds and purchase the MM16 Band Saw listed there for 1700 dollars. That is a good price for one of the best band saws ever built. I have one just like it and it is amazing.
Get the book Ken suggested, right after you bring home that MM16. btw Ken has the MM16 himself.
b

This is very good advice. MM bandsaws are highly praised. With a new Griz 513x2 you get a LOT for your money. I have a 21" Griz and it has been great.
-Brian

[Andre Cormier]

I've been looking at that MM16 and if I was closer I think I would spring for it as I love buying quality things. I don't even know how someone would go about shipping one of those or how much it would cost. I think I would have a hard time convincing my wife to to a NJ-FL road trip on July 4th weekend.

So for now I guess I'm still looking at that 513x2

As for the curve cutting ability of the saws I can't really see myself doing many tight curves. So I think the 17" will work well.

Thanks for all the post, this input is great

[Brian Kincaid]

I think I would have a hard time convincing my wife to to a NJ-FL road trip on July 4th weekend.


MY wife would spend July 4th in NYC in a heartbeat... I'm just saying... While you're at it pick up his scroll saw and deliver it to Dallas,TX. I'll throw in $20 for gas. :rolleyes:
-Brian

[Greg Portland]

I'm not sure how much I want to spend on it because I'm just not sure how much I will use it.You will use a great tool all the time, you will rarely use a bad tool. ;)

[Van Huskey]

MY wife would spend July 4th in NYC in a heartbeat... I'm just saying... While you're at it pick up his scroll saw and deliver it to Dallas,TX. I'll throw in $20 for gas. :rolleyes:
-Brian


Mine would too, but the cost of bringing here would be worse than just ordering up a new MM, Agazzini, Laguna or Felder!

The 513X2 is worth the premium over the 513. Both are very high on the bang for buck scale right now. As for the motor brake it is not worth it for me on a non-production saw. I do really like footbrakes and find them far more useful and more of a safety feature but they are not offered on the 513 series.

That all said let me suggest a different approach. I would suggest a 14" cast Delta clone saw for a first bandsaw, either something of CL used or something like the G0555P which is also on sale now. My observation is BS users longterm fall into two categories, ones that a 14" cast saw handles everything they need with aplomb and those are looking for a serious big wheeled machine (or both!). My approach lets you decide which one you are with the least investment and lets you experiment with blades (cheaper due to the length). Then you will see if the 14" saw is enough or you want to make a big leap to a 20"+ saw and either sell the 14" or keep it for contours and leave the big saw set for resaw.