Lathe question

[Doug Carpenter]

I have no experience with using a lathe. I am wondering if it would be a better tool to drill a gunstock blank than a drill press.

A tylical blank can be 3" thick and 18 to 20" long.

You have to drill 5/16" hole throu the entire thing and then use a counter bore to increase the size of some of the hole.

It a lathe a good machine for this and what size machine would you suggest.

I probrably wouldn't use it for much else.

Thanks

[John Keeton]

While it may work for that, I would think there are many more cost effective and perhaps better ways to get a straight hole through the blank. Normally, the drill bit would be mounted in the tailstock, and the wood blank is actually spun on the lathe at low speed. Seems like a gunstock blank would be out of balance and it would be very difficult to get a controlled straight hole.

Just my thoughts off the cuff. Perhaps someone else has tried something like this.

[David E Keller]

Drilling on the lathe can be done very accurately over short distances for things like pen blanks, but I'm not sure it would translate well to irregularly shaped objects over much longer distances.

I wonder if splitting the blank and routing each side before reassembling would be an option?

[Thom Sturgill]

Lathes are often used to drill out a 3/8" hole in turned lamps. The headstock and most tailstocks have a hollow bore to allow a 3/8" drill to pass through and provide *some* guidance. The piece would be stationary and the drill bit connected to a hand drill. Long bits are available at many vendors that cater to woodturners. The problem is of course that even with the guidance provided by the hole in the headstock, the bit will want to wander.

This of course does not use any of the 'turning' features of a lathe.

[John Keeton]

I am not sure exactly what Doug has in mind, but most gunstock blanks are similar to this pic and the hole would run at an angle through the buttstock.
http://www.clarowalnutgunstocks.com/images/Claro%20Exhibition/cexrif2lxx400.jpg

Seems like there are a multitude of better options.

On the other hand, we all know that Doug's statement "I probably wouldn't use it for much else." is PURE FOLLY!!:D:D It wouldn't be two weeks until he would never think of a gunstock again, and would be cutting down trees and scouring Craigslist for lathe accessories!!

[Cathy Schaewe]

.

On the other hand, we all know that Doug's statement "I probably wouldn't use it for much else." is PURE FOLLY!!:D:D It wouldn't be two weeks until he would never think of a gunstock again, and would be cutting down trees and scouring Craigslist for lathe accessories!!

Coming from a man who would well know the dangers of the vortex ... :D And has more than adequately demonstrated them for the rest of us, whilst simultaneously luring us in!!!!;)

[Doug Carpenter]

Very funny John.

You are right that is exactly what a gunstock blank looks like. I can't split first. I have two in my shop right now that were a $1000 a peice.

I thought I could chuck the bit and push the blank.

I drill press doesn't have much travel. I guess I'll just have to drill a little and then raise the work peice and drill some more.

[Doug Carpenter]

Ok Ok as I was typing it I was thinking.....well my wife does love bowls.;)

[Doug Carpenter]

Look at me I'm having a discussion all by my self. lol

Okay here is why I asked. this is a quote from another disussion on a gun forum.

I can't ask there because I don't want to out myself.

"The best way to do it is with a lathe. But all the lathe becomes is a giant drill that is mounted horizontal and the tail stock is used to drive the stock blank onto the drill bit."

I don't know enough about lathes to know what he is talking about.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I may be out on a limb here, but I have heard that drilling on a lathe with the wood rotating will drill straighter than a drill press. Turners of lamps have been known to flip the wood end for end and meet the hole in the middle. The spinning wood is less likely to stray from the center point. I would suggest trying it on a 1" board. If you can drill a piece of pine for a consider distance then it should work on something as thick as a gun stock. Just make sure it is centered and go slow enough to cause vibration from the off balanced wood.

[Thom Sturgill]

You can drill three ways on the lathe -
1) wood mounted in chuck and turning - use a drill chuck mounted in the tailstock. Drill does not turn
2) mount drill chuck to head stock and use tailstock to push material onto bit - bit turns wood does not.
3) use lathe as a clamp/guide and drill through the hole in either the headstock or tailstock. Wood does not turn, bit does with a hand drill supplying the power. Often shown as technique for drilling lamps for the power cord.

That does not count drilling other than along the axis, and are listed in how commonly they are done AFAIK. I use method 2 when drilling holes in handles, though tailstock pressure is only used to start the bit. It then acts as a centering guide while I manually push the handle onto the rotating bit. The tailstock clamp could be loosened and the tailstock pushed toward the headstock.

[Doug Carpenter]

John is right. The blank is odd shaped I don't think it can be turned it will wobble. I think there is some top secret way this is done. (just like everything else in the stockmaking business!)

I can see a lamp or something that is turned being easy to drill.

[Doug Carpenter]

Thom,

sorry i missed your post. So do I need a variable speed to do method two?

are they all variable speed?

It almost sounds like I can buy a broken one. That will be cheap.:p

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have no experience with using a lathe. I am wondering if it would be a better tool to drill a gunstock blank than a drill press.

A tylical blank can be 3" thick and 18 to 20" long.

You have to drill 5/16" hole throu the entire thing and then use a counter bore to increase the size of some of the hole.

It a lathe a good machine for this and what size machine would you suggest.

I probrably wouldn't use it for much else.

Thanks

Doug yes you can use a lathe for drilling the gun stock, but...........

You can't use a regular twist-drill,as it will like to follow the grain and thus wander off course, the use of a D-drill bit or gun drill bit is what you need, a D-drill can be home made and will give you a straight hole, though it is very time consuming to use that kind of a drill-bit, as there's very little room for swarf and thus has to be redrawn very often to clear that out, a Gun drill would work much better, though they are not cheap if you can find any.

The easiest way would be to hold the stock in the lathe and then drill through the tailstock if the lathe has a through-hole in there, otherwise you do have to go through the headstock and need a much longer bit usually.

Here are two pictures from a d-drill bit and from some gun drill bits, HTH


154067 154068

[Doug Carpenter]

Leo,

Very interesting. Thanks for the help.

[Rick Markham]

Doug, this is a question that I have also been pondering. I also do not have a lathe, and this is something that I plan on tackling in the near future. After a substantial amount of contemplation, I can only come up with that most stock makers would most likely be using a horizontal milling machine or a metal lathe made for making gun barrels. I would assume within the tolerance that is used to produce rifle barrels. (Especially if producing stocks for highly accurate rifles) I might be completely off on this. I also am aware that its a "hush hush" industry (lots of trade secrets that no one is willing to share.)

I for one am extremely interested to see what you come up with.

For the Turners: Is there a feasible way to balance a blank (like they balance tires) to eliminate the vast majority of vibration? My only other thought would be to use a whole board, mill the hole then shape the blank around it. (this seems preposterous to me and bassakwards) but it did cross my mind.

Doug, What kind of rifle are you building the stocks for, maybe if we knew, then it would provide some visual insight and help the brainstorming process.

[Doug Carpenter]

Rick,

thanks for the input. The stocks I do are for shotguns. The two that I am woking on now are for Over and Under shotguns. In the clay target competition world we have learned the value of a gun that fits correctly so most shooters need their stock altered for fit and many have custom stocks fit to their precise measurements. Because it is an expensive process it is typically done on high end guns.

a barrel channel for a rifle is a whole different animal. That can be duplicated from a pattern on a deplicator and then adjusted by hand. There are hand tools for this. And the barrel channel does affect accuracy. I haven't gotten into the rifle scene yet.

One stockmaker I know uses a lathe as descibed above. I just don't know the logistics of it because I don't know squat about lathes.

I started this business officially a few monthes ago but i have been retooling my shop and learning different aspects for the last year. i have been addressing issues as the arrive and this weeks fun is the bolt hole.

I am also watching the topic on a gearbox for a drill press. You may check that out too as I am leaning that way for reasons mentioned in that thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=142784

[Thom Sturgill]

AFAIK, all lathes* are variable, at least in steps. Most older lathes use stepped pulleys to give a series of speeds or a split pulley (reeves drive) that opens to effectively change the radius of the pulley and thus the speed. Many, if not most, new lathes offer electronic variable speed. Costs more, but well worth it if you are going to turn a few bowls along the way:D

*all lathes meaning modern lathes, I am not counting manual lathes like a pole or treadle lathe.

[Thom Sturgill]

When I was growing up (I'm 62) my dad was a violin maker (hobby) and gunsmith/stocker (also hobby). We had a metal lathe which I rebuilt one summer in my teens, and a small milling machine. He did a few match rifles (a cousin that was on the Marine Corp match team got him started), but mostly hunting rifles. I remember him lining the groove for the barrel in epoxy as he needed a .001" even gap from the barrel.
I'm sure he used a drill press for any drilling he did. I do not remember ever seeing the stock on the lathe. Of course he did a lot of hand work on his stocks.

[John Keeton]

Doug, seems this is getting overly complicated. I would think you could take a piece of mdf, affix a block the same thickness as your stock blank. The block would be drilled through for use as a guide block - much the same as the discussions of the tailstock hole.

Then, simply align the stock blank, and secure it in place by surrounding it with block cleats so it cannot move. Drill the hole with the bits suggested by Leo, by inserting the bit thru the guide block for straight drilling at the correct angle.

Much simpler and cheaper than a lathe. After all, all you are wanting is a way to drill a straight hole.

[Brad Vaughn]

I have seen lathes with custom gun bore drills mounted for making flutes.
One flute maker is at http://fluteblanks.com/flute_blanks.htm. He is a very nice guy and may be able to point you in the direction you need to go.
I will tell you that it wont be cheep as I have looked into this setup myself.

As a flute maker I have tried to bore wood 24" and find that a twist bit will follow the grain and not produce what you are looking for.
Do a google search on how to bore NAF flutes and I think you will find some info.
Brad

[Doug Carpenter]

Thanks for the help guys.

John I think you may be right We may be over thinking this.

The nice thing about the gunstock blank is that it is oversized. I think there is some room for error; however small. Thank god I'm not trying to drill a flute!

I am thinking of getting a nice big floor drill press. Maybe a radial. I seems to me that there maybe isn't much info out there about it because it just isn't that big of a deal.

I had read abou the use of a lathe so I came to ask the experts. It seems to me it is a use it if you got type of a thing.

If what I am planning works I'll share the info.