Which to get first and why?

[Roger Chandler]

I have two major things on my "to get" agenda, but am not sure which to get first. One is a Trend Airshield Pro, and the other is a vacuum chuck from JT turning tools.

I have a dust collection hood behind the bed on my lathe, and an overhead air cleaner just above, and I wear a NIOSH approved dust mask underneath my face shield, so I am pretty close. A Trend Airshield Pro would make it about as good as it gets [I think].

A vacuum chuck system would broaden my horizons in turning natural edge and other turnings as well. I have cole jaws, but they are limited, and I can use jam chucks as well, but I think a vacuum system is much better.

Tell me which you would do first, and why. I don't want to have to re-invent the wheel all over again, and there may be things I am not seeing. I welcome your imput.....so swing away ;)

[Tim Rinehart]

Hey Roger...here's my thinking.

If you WANT the Trendshield Pro, regardless of other precautions you're taking...then get the Trendshield Pro, for your health's sake.

Meanwhile, since mere mortals like many of us are, can't get everything at once...start looking around for a good deal on a used vacuum pump as base for system...and think about making other components once you've found the pump.

Most of the rest of the vacuum system can be put together on a budget, but the Trendshield can't.

And as I mentioned to another Creeker recently...you can do alot of same things using homemade vacuum chucks that are done with a vacuum...well, except maybe natural edge bowls, by simply taping to the chuck as a pseudo jam-chuck.

[bob svoboda]

Roger, I tend to agree with Tim. Your health is most important. I did my vacuum system kind of like Johnny Cash's "One piece at a time". I gathered my stuff little by little over 3 or 4 months and so it didn't hurt as bad as doing it all at once. Biggest expense was the pump and I got it on the Bay for about 75 plus shipping.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - I will agree with the others that your health is most important. Now I have to ask if you have researched the air filter system you are thinking about? To my knowledge, that system is not NIOSH approved and while it filters out a lot of stuff - it does not filter out the super small particles that are the real problem.

Hopefully someone knowledgeable on personal respirator systems will check in and offer their 2 cents.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - I will agree with the others that your health is most important. Now I have to ask if you have researched the air filter system you are thinking about? To my knowledge, that system is not NIOSH approved and while it filters out a lot of stuff - it does not filter out the super small particles that are the real problem.

Hopefully someone knowledgeable on personal respirator systems will check in and offer their 2 cents.

Steve,

The box of dust masks that I use reads "N95 NIOSH rated" for what that is worth, and I understand health being the most important thing [I almost died in November 2006 and was in intensive care with severe pnuemonia and its related complications [fluid around heart, lungs, and congestive heart failure] all brought on by the pneumonia, and I am 100% well now, but don't ever want to go thru that again!

My thinking is that with the dust collector [using 1 micron filter bag] and overhead air cleaner, and the dust mask, that I am in the ball park for getting most particles [I might be wrong]

I know I could make a homemade system, and use my large shop vac, or get one of the systems that use a compressor [which I have] but have been told they are not as good as a vacuum pump system, and JT turning tools seems to have the highest quality system, and Tom Steyer is very knowledgable, so I am not sure that my understanding is even correct related to either the vacuum system or the airborne dust collection.

Maybe the Airshield pro is not the way to go, but what is better? Packard has an Airshield pro with extra battery for $399.00.

[Tony De Masi]

Roger, I will agree with the others that your health is the major factor here so either the Trend or another system would be the way to go. They can get quite pricey too. I believe some here use a 3M product, not sure of it's correct name or product number, that can run you close to $900. But again, it's your health.

Tony

[Donny Lawson]

I would run by the "Bank" and then go buy them both.It's only money and the bank has plenty.LOL...
Donny

[Cathy Schaewe]

At the very least, you should consider using a respirator that's rated P99 or 100, rather than P95. From the research I've done, it's that last little bit that's the really dangerous stuff. I use this mask: http://www.amazon.com/North-770030-Medium-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B00156C61Y, which obviously is extremely inexpensive,

and these filters, http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-Particulate-Filter-Pack/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_sim_hi_1, rated P100, again very inexpensive. But it really seems to work. I used those P95 dust masks for a while, and would come up from the shop coughing and would keep coughing for a day or two. No coughing now.

And if you're doing much in the way of finishing or anything with VOC's or vapors, these filters are supposed to be good, and will get the particulates as well.

Just suggesting an alternative - for what it's worth. There are many, many others here with immeasurably more experience than I.

[Karl Card]

you have to ask yourself this.... do you want to have fun or be safe....

I know what I would do....get the vacuum chuck... would that be the smartest thing to do, probably not, but I am not real smart...

or there is also the 3rd option....buy both and be done with it...
I know the budget creates issues for that choice....

Like you I have been looking at that airshiled and wondering if it is everything it looks like it is..

but at the same time I have so many bowls that need finished and i really want a vacuum chuck to do it with sooooo there you go...

I guess I wasnt much help but at least it was a thought....lol

[Thom Sturgill]

There was a recent link to the wood whisperer that had a video about respirators - http://thewoodwhisperer.com/87-dust-in-time/ some good information. This is the respirator he uses:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ETpvgnvCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Both with and without VOC filters. He likes it because the silicon is soft and the outlet points down and does not cause fogging.

Just an alternative until you save up for a r-e-al-l-y good forced air respirator after you buy the vacuum chuck we know you WANT.
:D

[Marc Himes]

Roger, I agree with Cathy. The system she describes and has a link for are also sold at Menards, Lowes and other outlets for under $30. The are very effective, although they are a little bulky underneath a face shield. I am very sensitive to wood dust and use one all the time in my shop. It may be worth a try for the small investment. Then you can get your vacuum chuck and decide later if you want a more complicated respirator.

Good Luck

Marc Himes

[Roger Chandler]

Hi all,
All of your posts have been helpful to me. I had not realized the Airshield pro was not NIOSH rated. Now, I am starting from square one, with helpful ideas from all of you.

I had never considered what Cathy recommended, a respirator that one uses for organic and paint vapors..... I already own 3 of these and use them when I spray a finish. They just seem bulky, and I just had in my mind that something like the Airshield was the way to go. Funny how marketing can create a mindset, but maybe not the correct one ....shame on me:o.

I really want something that will protect my lungs and sinuses. I usually irrigate them after a turning session, but it wouldn't be necessary if I had the correct respirator system.

Keep the tips coming if you have additional comments. I appreciate all this information. Thank you all very much!!!

[Cathy Schaewe]

They seemed bulky to me too, but when I get caught up in turning, I really forget it's there.

Until I turn around and the dogs bark at me (they like to watch when I turn - from a distance), and I know I look goofy. But that's okay, cause I can breathe.

Isn't the trend going to be bulky as well?

ps. the little filters I use - not the VOC ones - are called pancake filters, and they really don't get in the way. Here's a pic:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-38637167768280_2109_78100391

Note the lovely pink color - :)

[Roger Chandler]

They seemed bulky to me too, but when I get caught up in turning, I really forget it's there.

Until I turn around and the dogs bark at me (they like to watch when I turn - from a distance), and I know I look goofy. But that's okay, cause I can breathe.

Isn't the trend going to be bulky as well?

ps. the little filters I use - not the VOC ones - are called pancake filters, and they really don't get in the way. Here's a pic:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-38637167768280_2109_78100391

Note the lovely pink color - :)

Cathy,

I'm sure I will look just heavenly with pink filters on my face when I turn! I just hope nobody comes a-callin' while I am turning, because I might have to do CPR on them them from passing out from hilarious uncontrollable laughter after seeing my mug adorned in such a fashion :D

Thanks for the info, as it had not occurred to me to use the paint respirators, and I will look for filters that are colored maybe white or blue or green or........:D

You are probably right about the bulk of the Trend. I will get it figured out in due time.

[Paul Singer]

I just got the 3M respirator referenced in the video Thom pointed out. I used it today and it was comfortable and fit under my face shield with no problem. Big plus that the air exits from the bottom and does not fog the face shield. I ordered from Enviro Safety Products. You need to piece part the unit as follows.

3MM7502 3M 7500 Series Half Facepiece Respirator (Medium Size) $21.06
3MM6001 3M 6001 Organic Vapor Cartridge $7.79
3MM2091 3M 2091 P100 Particulate Filter $4.98
3MM502 3M 502 Filter Adapter $3.15
Plus Shipping

You need the Filter Adapter if you want to attach both the Particulate Filter and the Organic Vapor Cartridge at the same time.

I think this is a good setup and the medium size seals well on my normal size head.

[Mike Peace]

Dust collection and protecting your lungs is like apple pie and motherhood. Hard to speak against it. I have a DC with a hood behind the lathe and an air filtration unit also. I have a Vacuum chuck but do not have a powered personal air mask like a Trend. I have never smoked and don't turn a lot of exotics. I have a fan blowing over my shoulder when I am generating a lot of dust.

For me I think it is enough. Maybe it will eventually catch up with me but I don't think so. I really like my vacuum chuck.

My 2 cents worth.

[Roger Chandler]

Dust collection and protecting your lungs is like apple pie and motherhood. Hard to speak against it. I have a DC with a hood behind the lathe and an air filtration unit also. I have a Vacuum chuck but do not have a powered personal air mask like a Trend. I have never smoked and don't turn a lot of exotics. I have a fan blowing over my shoulder when I am generating a lot of dust.

For me I think it is enough. Maybe it will eventually catch up with me but I don't think so. I really like my vacuum chuck.

My 2 cents worth.

Thanks Mike,

I guess short of having some testing done in my shop real time there is no way to accurately know what the level of particulate matter actually in the air. I do know that the overhead air cleaner does a good job, but I don't know for sure how much is left in the air, especially when sanding.

I do want to get a vacuum chuck system, and I will, but I just need to put a little more thought into what I can do either now, or in a few weeks after saving a few more $$$$.

[Ryan Baker]

I have to vote with the others in favor of safety over fun. Vacuum chucks are fun, but there are very few things that can't be done without one.

The Airshield Pro is pretty good (I have one). It is not NIOSH rated, and is not the best system for sure. I would say to save up your pennies and look at a 3M Airstream system. That is usually considered the best in the turning world. I will be making that upgrade at some point myself.

If you have one of the less espensive mask systems that is rated for the small stuff and is workable for you, go ahead and stick with it. As long as you have SOME way to protect your lungs (don't just rely on air cleaners and dust collectors, which don't do much with the small stuff).

[Bernie Weishapl]

Roger I had the same problem you did with a bronchial infection and sinus infection. I had used both Trends and could smell the wood all the time. My Doctor told me if you can smell you are breathing the dust. I have went to the Airstream AS-400 and have not looked back. I know they are expensive but as my Doctor told me you only have one set of lungs. I have the DC and a air cleaner hanging from the ceiling. With all three it works extremely well for me.

[Jake Helmboldt]

The N95 (NIOSH) masks filter at least 95% of particles less than 0.3 microns. In other words, not much is getting past. The "P" designation simply means highly oil resistant, nothing more, nothing less. So for wood dust the P gets you nothing extra.

As for smelling wood dust, I find that specious. Odors and particulate are not one and the same. And the fact that it came from a doctor means nothing in my book. Several years ago I asked my physician to run a blood lead level in a battery of lab work to rule out lead exposure at work. She asked why that was a concern and I mentioned that I handled various samples being tested for lead in a laboratory and would sometimes be exposed to dust. She noted that I shouldn't be concerned since inhalation of airborne leaded dust wasn't a risk. In fact it is the number one lead exposure risk in occupational exposures.

[Roger Chandler]

The N95 (NIOSH) masks filter at least 95% of particles less than 0.3 microns. In other words, not much is getting past. The "P" designation simply means highly oil resistant, nothing more, nothing less. So for wood dust the P gets you nothing extra.

As for smelling wood dust, I find that specious. Odors and particulate are not one and the same. And the fact that it came from a doctor means nothing in my book. Several years ago I asked my physician to run a blood lead level in a battery of lab work to rule out lead exposure at work. She asked why that was a concern and I mentioned that I handled various samples being tested for lead in a laboratory and would sometimes be exposed to dust. She noted that I shouldn't be concerned since inhalation of airborne leaded dust wasn't a risk. In fact it is the number one lead exposure risk in occupational exposures.

Jake,
I am trying to be extra careful of my lungs, with what happened to me in 2006, but the only time I have noticed anything when using the N95 masks is when I have sanded for long periods, at a time when I did not have the dust collector hood in place like it is now. I also had the air cleaner at the other end of the shop, and now I have it in close proximity to the lathe.

With both turned on, and the DC pulling the sanding dust into the hood, shouldn't nearly all the dust being omitted also be collected?

Another poster said he has the Airshield pro. I haven't used one, but it is my understanding that it has a positive pressure when blowing filtered air over the face and down through the holes in the fabric that goes around the face and neck. I understand that whatever air comes through the 2 filters on top will be the same you breath, but with the DC and the air cleaner and the Airshield, would that not be nearly as good as it gets?

I really want to understand this process, but don't want to have to break the bank to be safe, if I don't have to, and yes I know I only get one set of lungs, and that is most important to me.

I love hearing all the different rationales from the different posters, as it makes me think and evaluate..... thanks to all!

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Roger the way I always have looked at this is, the dust collector and air-cleaners clean the dust you haven't inhaled yet, with wood turning-sanding you are constantly making dust and breathing it in, even after you stop sanding until the collector and cleaner have cleaned all the dust from the air.
With a personal filter like the Airshield, the air you breath has been filtered, even if you don't have or use an air-filter or/and a dust collector, so you shop might be full of dust, your lungs will not.

[Will Blick]

Great thread.... In my experience, I have seen people who seem impervious to every contaminate in the world.... to me, they seem like Superman...then, unfortunately, there are us who are ultra sensitive to nearly all contaminates. And the more you read, the more you learn that repeated exposure will often lead to sensitivities or allergies that can be severe. Makes ya wonder if the hobby is right for all some of us.

I am in full agreement with Jake... Doctors often know less about this subject than our own intuition. It's the only field the public seems to put 100% trust into their every word, yet often their thinking, logic is so flawed its pathetic.

More imporantly, I am thinking its time to protect my health more... for me, I am seem ultra sensitive to glues such cyano, but even Titebond, which has little or no smell. Of course the worst is solvents. The respirators (3M) never eliminates the solvent odors...even though the Organic filters claim they do... and in this case, common sense suggests, if you can smell it, there is sufficient amounts entering your respitory system.

So up to the next level, it seems the 3M AS-400 as Bernie suggested makes sense. I am curious how effective the filter system is with these? Can you still smell solvents when using the appropiate filters? How effective is the forced air? Is it suffiicent to prevent fogging?

I am seriously considering this unit, so if anyone has input, I would appreciate it... TYIA

[Prashun Patel]

I bought the 3m halfmask with P100 filters and I love it. It's comfortable and vented enough to wear for hours.

I love that the filters are replaceable and easily found. I would, though, advise to buy a LOT of replacement filters at the time of purchase on the chance that the model obsolesces and they change the design in a couple years JUST when yr looking to replenish.