Breaking down sheets

[Kevin Gagne]

I have some extra money to spend on tools and am seriously considering getting a TS55. I have been dreaming about getting Festools for a while now and this would be my first. I have a nice Grizzly 1023 table saw and have been very happy with it but trying to cut a sheet of plywood and end up with a nice straight edge is difficult, for me anyways. I would like to get the TS55 to make breaking down the plywood much more manageable and accurate.

My questions is how do you breakdown sheets of plywood? Do you do it on the table saw, panel saw, track saw or some other way?

Also as a side questions is the CT22 vac needed or can another vac or dust collector be used? I would like to get the vac but would like to save a little extra money for now if I can use the vac or dust collector I already have. Thanks -Kevin

[Charles Wiggins]

I set the sheet of ply on a sheet of foam insulation on the floor and I use a circular saw against a straight edge, which I must somehow clamp to the ply. I've made my own straight edge guides with one-by stock and hardboard. That does fairly well for a few passes, but invariably the edge of the hardboard gets boogered up and thus loses its use as a cut line locator and chip-out preventer.

A TS55 would make things a lot simpler.

[Prashun Patel]

Check out the Eurekazone system. It's a might cheaper but quite accurate.

[Will Overton]

With the ts-55 you don't 'breakdown' sheet goods. You lay the sheet on a piece of foam or (I use) sacrificial 2x's and get right to making your final cuts. Used properly the ts-55 can be that accurate and give that clean a cut, that you will most likely never have to let your table saw see another piece of plywood.

Any shop vac should do the trick with the saw. The ct-22 really earns it's fame with smaller tools like sanders, because you can cut back on power. You don't need it now, but keep it in the back of your mind for later.

[Matt Meiser]

I love my TS55. No monkeying around getting it set up, great dust collection, and I love the fact that you can make a couple marks, drop the guide edge right on them and cut exactly where the mark is. There's also no reason to clamp the rails unless your material is really slippery or you are making a smaller crosscut where not much of the rail is on the material. I've used other Skil-saw guide systems and none of that was true with them.

Definitely no reason you can't use the vac you have but you'll have to either adapt the hose or buy a Festool hose. You can save a little money on the latter by getting the grey version which isn't anti-static.

[David Arbogast]

Since the Festool TS-55 and Eurekazone (EZ) system was mentioned, I thought I should provide an account of my own experience and assessment of the Eurekazone system and the Festool TS55, since I am experienced with both.

I started with the EZ system; even purchased a circ. saw from Eurekazone with base plate and splinter guard installed. It cuts wonderfully straight, but the splinter guard (which has no adjustability) tilts the saw at a slight angle resulting in perfectly-straight/ imperfectly-slightly-beveled cuts. Calibrating the blade angle it to overcome the splinter guard became so painful that I have given up on EZ's track system (although I still use and enjoy many EZ "Powerbench" parts). NOTE: The anti-chip guard on my EZ-purchased saw appears to be different than the current one, so this issue is possibly resolved.

I recently purchased the Festool TS-55 and am much more satisfied by it. The reason I like the Festool saw better is that both saw and track are manufactured by the same company, so there is no weak linkage of trying to attach a rough framing saw to a precision track system. Both saw and track are singing exactly the same tune. Another thing I prefer about the Festool is dust collection. EZ makes a valiant effort to attach their after-market dust collection to the circ. saws they sell, but Festool has been engineered from the ground-up to excel at dust collection. This difference pays off tremendously especially when cutting MDF.

Another thing to consider is the tracks. The TS-55 comes with a 55" track, but to rip a sheet of plywood/MDF, you'd need to separately purchase either a 2700 mm or 3000 mm track. Since EZ's tracks are so sturdier and feature multiple connection points between joined tracks, I can confidently gang them and know that they are perfectly aligned. But Festool's tracks are thinner gauge aluminum (floppier) and have only one connection point between tracks and they are a pain to keep aligned [EDIT: Oops, Thanks Will Overton for the correction: The Festool track indeed has two connection points]. So with Festool, the [EDIT] best option, in my opinion, is to purchase tracks in the lengths you need.

Festool is initially more costly, but for me EZ's system has proven the most costly to me because I was so disatisfied it that I felt compelled to switch to Festool. Now my Eurekazone-purchased Makita 5008 saw is sitting aside gathering dust (and not in a good way!;)).

I do feel there are some wonderful inventions available at EZ, such as the bridge, that I have found very easy to incorporate with my new Festool tools/tracks. If you're just breaking down sheets, and that's it, the EZ could be the more affordable way to go.

[glenn bradley]

Shop made guide, shop vac and a PC-735 mag circ saw do the job for me. I don't use sheet goods that often. If you do and you've got the bug, the Festool system gets high marks. If you just want to break sheets down it could be a waste. The Festool GCS system seems more designed to give you "ready to use" parts out of a sheet than to break down sheets for precision cutting on the tablesaw.

[Erik Christensen]

i choose to get the T75 and do not regret it. it is a heavier saw but all i do is put it on the track and back on a stand or a scrap of carpet on the floor - i do not have to carry it to a job site so the extra weight is not a negative. I have had times when I think the smaller T55 would not have worked - i used my vacuum press to glue together 3 pieces of 3/4" baltic birch for a structural element for my new workbench and even the T75 had to work to cut the 2.25" glueup - the T55 only cuts to a depth of 1 15/16".

you do not need to buy a festool vac - they do sell hoses separately which connect to a standard vac fitting - i have not had good luck fitting other's hoses to festool tool pickups. you will want a vac with auto start - once you have that you'll never go back to a manual vac setup again PLUS the whole reason for a vac is dust collection and the fine non-visible dust is the real health hazard - that means a HEPA filter.

Once you add the cost of auto start and HEPA to a vac the festool is merely pricey vs obscenely expensive.

FWIW - I cut all sheet goods > 24" or so with the T75 - I do all my work solo and even with a sliding table Robland saw it is easier & safer to cut with the festool. I think final cut quality is equal or better than my table saw with ZCI and sharp Ridge Carbide plywood blade.

only down side is festool is more addictive than cocaine - that chip commercial "you can never have just one" also applies to these tools

[Will Overton]

But Fe stool's tracks are thinner gauge aluminum (floppier) and have only one connection point between tracks and they are a pain to keep aligned.

I don't understand what you mean by 'one connection point'. The Festool tracks use 2 connectors that slide into both sections of track and are held in place by set screws. Are you missing a connector, or am I missing your point? :confused:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/plunge-cut-circular-saws/stops-and-accessories/guide-rail-accessory-kit-492396.html

[David epstein]

Since the Festool TS-55 and Eurekazone (EZ) system was mentioned, I thought I should provide an account of my own experience and assessment of the Eurekazone system and the Festool TS55, since I am experienced with both.

I started with the EZ system; even purchased a circ. saw from Eurekazone with base plate and splinter guard installed. It cuts wonderfully straight, but the splinter guard (which has no adjustability) tilts the saw at a slight angle resulting in perfectly-straight/ imperfectly-slightly-beveled cuts. Calibrating the blade angle it to overcome the splinter guard became so painful that I have given up on EZ's track system (although I still use and enjoy many EZ "Powerbench" parts). NOTE: The anti-chip guard on my EZ-purchased saw appears to be different than the current one, so this issue is possibly resolved.

I recently purchased the Festool TS-55 and am much more satisfied by it. The reason I like the Festool saw better is that both saw and track are manufactured by the same company, so there is no weak linkage of trying to attach a rough framing saw to a precision track system. Both saw and track are singing exactly the same tune. Another thing I prefer about the Festool is dust collection. EZ makes a valiant effort to attach their after-market dust collection to the circ. saws they sell, but Festool has been engineered from the ground-up to excel at dust collection. This difference pays off tremendously especially when cutting MDF.

Another thing to consider is the tracks. The TS-55 comes with a 55" track, but to rip a sheet of plywood/MDF, you'd need to separately purchase either a 2700 mm or 3000 mm track. Since EZ's tracks are so sturdier and feature multiple connection points between joined tracks, I can confidently gang them and know that they are perfectly aligned. But Festool's tracks are thinner gauge aluminum (floppier) and have only one connection point between tracks and they are a pain to keep aligned. So with Festool, the only reasonable option, in my opinion, is to purchase tracks in the lengths you need.

Festool is initially more costly, but for me EZ's system has proven the most costly to me because I was so disatisfied it that I felt compelled to switch to Festool. Now my Eurekazone-purchased Makita 5008 saw is sitting aside gathering dust (and not in a good way!;)).

I do feel there are some wonderful inventions available at EZ, such as the bridge, that I have found very easy to incorporate with my new Festool tools/tracks. If you're just breaking down sheets, and that's it, the EZ could be the more affordable way to go.


David, I had similar experience and I was ready to have a custom setup base made by a machine shop using the ez bridge and rails.
The lifting of the ez sawbase was an easy fix. Sand down the Antisplintering insert?

I found the dust collection much better in the front of the saw hanging straight up from the ceiling with the electric cord. The front ez dust port when used with the dust shield offers the best dust collection possible.

I did order the new Moduni base for my 5008 MGA and I think that eurekazone is going to offer the Moduni base on their standard packages.

The saw in the video uses a moduni base.

[/URL][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvxhvVJjyU&feature=player_embedded (http://www.core77.com/blog/object_culture/eurekazones_new_powerbench_aims_to_replace_the_tab le_saw_16697.asp)


Don't give up and call eurekazone to fix any problem that you have.
I have many Festool tools but I don't think any company can keep up with eurekazone inventions. After all, they only make tracksaw systems and power benches.

[David Arbogast]

I don't understand what you mean by 'one connection point'. The Festool tracks use 2 connectors that slide into both sections of track and are held in place by set screws. Are you missing a connector, or am I missing your point? :confused:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/plunge-cut-circular-saws/stops-and-accessories/guide-rail-accessory-kit-492396.html

Will, you're right! Thanks for the correction.:o I've had my TS-55 for a month now, so I'm still learning. I keep forgetting that the track has a T-slot on the bottom and another one on the top. Nonetheless the Festool track is of a substantially thinner gauge.

[David Arbogast]

Sand down the Antisplintering insert?

...

Don't give up and call eurekazone to fix any problem that you have.
I have many Festool tools but I don't think any company can keep up with eurekazone inventions. After all, they only make tracksaw systems and power benches.

Thanks for the ideas. Actually I did sand down the anti-chip insert, but just wasn't happy with the results (if I sanded it too much further I'd sand right through it!). Right or wrong the ship has sailed and I'm gleefully drinking the Festool koolaid from here on (with some ongoing help from some of those great EZ inventions though!).

[David epstein]

I don't understand what you mean by 'one connection point'. The Festool tracks use 2 connectors that slide into both sections of track and are held in place by set screws. Are you missing a connector, or am I missing your point? :confused:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/plunge-cut-circular-saws/stops-and-accessories/guide-rail-accessory-kit-492396.html

Will,
The festool tracks come with two connectors.
Even if they come with 3 connectors the connection point is weak.
To have a good connection we need self aligning design.
Dewalt tracks align better than Festool's and Makita tracks
with only one connector.
Look at the V-grove at the connection channel.

[Jerry Olexa]

simple way is circular saw, cutting slightly oversized...Trim to final then on TS using panel sled if needed.

[bruce buren]

I just bought the T55 for this very same reason. I set a 4x8 sheet of 2 " thick foam and set that on whatever flat surface is available and make my cuts soooooo much easier then man handling the sheets through the ts but that just my opinion

[Kevin Gagne]

Bruce did you get the vac with it? What did you get for tracks?

[David Hostetler]

My method for breaking down sheet goods.

I either get the big box store guy to break it down on their panel saw, or I get after it with a circ saw, foam insulation board, straight edge and clamps... Just depends on how accurate of a cut I want. The BORG guys aren't that accurate...

[Eric DeSilva]

I don't think any company can keep up with eurekazone inventions. After all, they only make tracksaw systems and power benches.

That difference should be emphasized, and it isn't necessarily a benefit in my book. As has been pointed out in many, many other threads on Festool, the Festool tools are part of an overall system for woodworking. You can adopt as much or as little or as much of that system as you want, but even if you only dip your toe in, the existence of a vast, expandable, modular universe of tools is a nice thing. There is also a very active base of users on another forum that continually amaze me with their creativity in applying the basic Festool principles to new and different projects.

But, more on point, I love my TS55 and my guiderails for breaking down plywood. I've got the 102" (? more or less) and the 55" rails, which is really handy, although storing the long rail is kind of a PITA.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I use a combination of homebuilt panel saw and table saw. Rip on the table saw, and crosscut on the panel saw. Tablesaw (Unisaw) has a 4x8 outfeed table, so ripping isn't a problem.

[David Helm]

I've also never had a problem ripping full sheets on the table saw. Good outfeed tables are the answer.

[Thom Porterfield]

Well, I don't know about you TS guys, but I'm not very strong and lifting a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 birch onto the saw to START the rip is akin to pulling a Greyhound bus with your teeth. Let alone the fact that ensuring the edge of the panel remains next to the fence . . . :rolleyes:

I either break down sheet goods right in the truck (slide a couple sleepers under the uppermost sheet, slice away with my Skilsaw), or get someone to help haul 'em onto a sawhorse rig and bust 'em up there.

[Karl Brogger]

My questions is how do you breakdown sheets of plywood? Do you do it on the table saw, panel saw, track saw or some other way?

Tablesaw. I'll generally take a wag at how many rips I'll need for a given width, then crosscut.


You need more practice is all. Forward is the least important direction you need to be pushing when operating a tablesaw. #1- Towards the fence, #2 Down against the table, #3 forward through the blade.
Afterthat it pretty much takes care of itself.

[Karl Brogger]

Well, I don't know about you TS guys, but I'm not very strong and lifting a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 birch onto the saw to START the rip is akin to pulling a Greyhound bus with your teeth. Let alone the fact that ensuring the edge of the panel remains next to the fence . . . :rolleyes:


Eek! That's not good. Might be time to consider a new vocation or hobby?

Far too many people make far too big a deal about lifting sheets on to a tablesaw. Being that I'm habitually lazy, and really don't care for working any harder than I have to I slide the sheat on edge up to the saw. I lift the edge closest to the saw up onto the saw. Keep the sheat vertical I go to what is now the top back edge and just tip it up. At just about any given time something other than me is carrying at least half of the weight, and I'm not fighting anything to position it.

Keep the saw top slippery goes a long way in keeping material moving across it nicely.

[David Prince]

I use a couple of 8 foot 2 x 2s across a couple of saw horses, then put four or so 4 foot 2 x 2s across the 8 footers to form a cutting grid. Lay your sheet of plywood over the grid and cut your sheet without cutting any of the grid.

I used to use a 48 metal rule with spring clamps to act as a straight edge. It worked at the time, but I recently got a all-in-one clamp and this works great as a straight edge for the saw. For $35 it is a lot cheaper than a track saw. I don't have any accuracy problems.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BJW3HFJEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0000DYV40/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi)
http://www.amazon.com/Clamp-50-Inch-Grip-Guide-T-track/dp/B0000DYV40/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_c

[bruce buren]

Kevin,

No I didnt get the vac, got the 55 and 106 " guides and for me it was worth it. I know a lot of you use the ts but this works better and safer for me. It did come at a price though.

[Will Rowland]

+1 on the TS55. I bought one primarily for an onsite cabinet project at a rental property I have, but I have since been amazed at how much I use it to break down sheet goods in the shop (and I have a 52" Uni with a large outfeed table).

I have a pair of the latest Stanley sawhorses that have notches in them for 2 x 4s. I set-up the sawhorses outside, with the 2 x 4s forming an 8 ft long "table". I then have some scrap 2 ft x 4 ft ply sections I throw on top. Then I'll usually just unload each piece of ply directly onto this "table" and break down the pieces with the TS55. It is so accurate that, with some planning, I make many of the final cuts right then and there. In the shop I lay some scrap 1/2" MDF on top of the outfeed table and make the cuts there.

I use mine with a Fein Turbo II vac...works great. I have the 55" and 75" guide rails, but usually only reach for the 55". I also purchased the accessory kit, which, while pricey, has proved quite handy in letting me have the various attachments all at the ready.

[David Helm]

I agree with Karl. One doesn't ever have to lift the whole sheet. When I'm using $150 sheets of CVG fir plywood the only part not used is the saw kerfs. I'm 67 years old and not nearly as strong as I used to be so working smart is more important. I rarely lift big heavy stuff in total. Using applied physics always works.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I use three methods which is tablesaw, circular saw and guide, and a combination of both.

I am a fairly strong guy even for my age. 1/2" plywood I put through my tablesaw.

3/4" plywood I will sometimes cut to size with c/s and guide...other times I will cut slightly oversized and then pass it through my table saw for final size cutting.

It depends on the individual situation.

[Thom Porterfield]

Eek! That's not good. Might be time to consider a new vocation or hobby?:mad:

Yeah. I make stuff that doesn't depend on cutting full sheets of plywood on the table saw.

That's a LOT of stuff, too.

[Kevin Gagne]

Tablesaw. I'll generally take a wag at how many rips I'll need for a given width, then crosscut.


You need more practice is all. Forward is the least important direction you need to be pushing when operating a tablesaw. #1- Towards the fence, #2 Down against the table, #3 forward through the blade.
Afterthat it pretty much takes care of itself.


My problem is keeping it tight aginst the fence. When I am trying to rip an 18" piece from a full sheet it is hard to tell if it is staying tight to the fence. I have been cutting it slightly larger and then sending it through a second time to get it straight. Even doing it this way with long pieces I end up moving it in and out slightly and the edge doesn't end up as straight as I would like.

[John McClanahan]

Harbor Freight Tools has the 50" straight edge clamp for less than $30. And don't forget your 20% off coupon. It seems as good as some $40+ models.

John

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

My problem is keeping it tight aginst the fence. When I am trying to rip an 18" piece from a full sheet it is hard to tell if it is staying tight to the fence. I have been cutting it slightly larger and then sending it through a second time to get it straight. Even doing it this way with long pieces I end up moving it in and out slightly and the edge doesn't end up as straight as I would like.

I hold it at the back left corner, right hand on the back, left hand pushing against the fence. Get it as close to the blade as possible, and rock it against the fence. When it's tight, cut. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Another option is to cut slightly larger, then use a roller stand and recut with featherboard(s).

As for handling full sheets, I like to stand them on end and slide them around. Be careful they don't fall away from you, but they're much easier to handle that way.

[Chip Lindley]

I rip 8' sheets longways with a SkilSaw, outdoors on sawhorses, on 2x's, with a shop-made aluminum straight edge/hardboard guide. The hardboard guide edge accurately indicates the edge of the saw kerf. No DC required outdoors!

I take the long, half-sheets inside and break them down further on the PM66 w/ Exaktor slider, using a Modulus scoring attachment. Perfect melamine edges!

Cutting on a piece of 2" foam insul. is a great idea. Grovel on your knees rather than lift the goods up onto sawhorses.

[Greg Portland]

Cutting on a piece of 2" foam insul. is a great idea. Grovel on your knees rather than lift the goods up onto sawhorses.The lack of lifting is only part of the advantage. With the foam you get a zero clearance insert on the bottom of the sheet. Couple that with the ZCI on the Festool saw (I have one specifically for 20mm deep sheet good cuts) and you get a very clean cut.

I've always used a circular saw to break down my sheet goods. Even before I got a TS55 I would snap a line and cut the sheets into rough dimensions (down to about 1/4 size of a full sheet). With the TS55, I make my final cuts using a long rail. In this specific case, the TS55 is a time saver but the result is the same quality as a cabinet saw with a ZCI.

However, this weekend I was cutting a 36" square board into two triangles. IMO, this cut could only be safely made on a large sliding TS, a tracksaw system, or a giant infeed table with miter slots. I was glad to have the TS55 for this situation!

In summary, an accurate tracksaw system with zero clearance inserts & foam board backer can be a good addition to a US-style cabinet saw.

[Karl Brogger]

IMO, this cut could only be safely made on a large sliding TS, a tracksaw system, or a giant infeed table with miter slots.

[hi-jack]Vertical panel saws are pretty awesome for cutting stuff like that too. You just have to make a simple jig to hold the piece at whatever angle you desire[/hi-jack]

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My questions is how do you breakdown sheets of plywood? Do you do it on the table saw, panel saw, track saw or some other way?

I used to use a Skillsaw, a straight edged piece of wood and some C clamps.
Then I built a larger-ish table for my Table saw and that worked rather well, I could rig up and clamp a long fence anywhere I needed. Never bothered with a Beis or a clone.

Now however, I throw the sheet stock on my Hammer Sliding Table saw and just whizz it off dead perfect every time.