Under table Blade dust shroud for 1970 Unisaw

[Cary Falk]

I have been wanting to make a dust shroud for under my Uni for some time. I attempted to mock one up a couple of years ago out of wood because I didn’t have a welder. It didn’t work because the space under the saw is very tight. I got a welder shortly after that but I got busy with other things.

About a year ago I purchased an Excalibur over arm guard so I could get a little more serious about dust collection on the saw. I was a little disappointed about the dust collection. I decided I wanted to attempt to make an under the table blade shroud even more. Well, last week was the week I started the project. I finished it up this weekend.

The shroud is made out of 16 gage steel. The connection for the 2.5” hose is a piece of muffler pipe.(go figure) I searched for places for 2.5” pipe and nobody carried it. When I looked it up online muffler pipe kept coming up. I called a muffler shop here in town and he gave me a piece out of his scrap bin. I took a bunch of measurements and drew it all out but I had to redesign it many times on the fly. You can probably se a few places where I made mistakes and hade to patch some things. I’m not the greatest welder but I have fun. It’s a good thing somebody invented Bondo.

The whole process was a huge PITA and I am glad it is over. It's no beauty spot but it will be under the table and nobody will seeI was afraid that I would spend all of this time and it wouldn’t work very well. I must say that initial test have produced very good results. I am very happy with the results and I think it will be staying under the table. I probably catch 95% of everything that used to end up on the table. What is left is very fine stuff which the Excalibur shouldn’t have any problems picking up.

I thought I would post this because I know many people have old Unisaws and might be interested in the implementation. It can be done!!!!


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[Tullie Templet]

Looks good. I thought about trying something like this for my Grizzly but haven't got around to even looking to see if it is possible. Thanks for the idea.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Now that's ingenuity!

Great post.
-Jeff:)

[Dave MacArthur]

Fantastic!
The lack of dust shrouds and boots is the #1 problem we have for dust collection. It all starts with being able to collect the dust at the source, it you don't have a decent shroud/boot, it doesn't matter whether you have 300 CFM or 1000 CFM.

Looks like a good design--sure wish I had your skills, or that somebody had made one of these for the PM66!

I'll bet if you used a 4" pipe it would get 99% of everything. Do you have any plans for that, maybe a pdf drawing that folks could print out and try? I read a lot of dust collection threads, and this is a pretty rare event, someone taking the time to make a good dust shroud for a popular tool.
Well done!

[Cary Falk]

Fantastic!
I'll bet if you used a 4" pipe it would get 99% of everything.

There is no way you can get a 4" pipe to fit up in there. I was wondering if I was going to get the 2.5" to work. It looks like there is a ton of room in the cabinet until you try to shove something in there and start to tilt the blade.

[Bruce Page]

Excellent fabrication!
I have a 10 year old Uni that I love....except for the under blade dust collection.

[Jamie Buxton]

Welding isn't part of my skill set. If you want to start making those things for money, I'll be the first in line.

[Dave MacArthur]

cramped space indeed. I tried taping a prototype together with cardboard and fitting it up in my PM66 a few years ago, but every time I tilted the blade something would get smashed, it kept looking like some sort of side plates sliding against each other would be required. I gave it up pretty quickly.

[Van Huskey]

You may have to take this with a grain of salt from someone that is NOT a metal worker but that is freakin awesome. It looks like you ordered it from a parts catalog! Very nice PITA or not.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Cary - put me down for one for a left-tilt uni, please. What's the estimated leadtime? :D

[Cary Falk]

Cary - put me down for one for a left-tilt uni, please. What's the estimated leadtime? :D
If there is enough interest and I do decide to sell a few of these, it would be for right tilt only. I don't know for sure and don't have access toa LT to check, but I think it is different enough that this one won't work by swapping the dust chute side.

[Steve Bracken]

I've been reading this thread, and it's worth a post just to congratulate a job very well done :)

[John R Green]

Cary,

The Eagle has landed !

We all knew we wanted to go there but weren't sure how.

Will there be a way to acquire tracings or plans (1:1 scale)?

Ready to send small bills, non-consecutive numbers in a plain brown envelope.

John

[Cary Falk]

Cary,

The Eagle has landed !

We all knew we wanted to go there but weren't sure how.

Will there be a way to acquire tracings or plans (1:1 scale)?

Ready to send small bills, non-consecutive numbers in a plain brown envelope.

John

John,
I'm not sure if I want to market these. It is kind of an internal struggle. The 1st one was a PITA to build. I would love to just sell the plans for people that can weld since my skills aren't that great. Part of me thinks this is a woodworking site and I should pony them up. :confused: It's a one of a kind thing and I spent a lot of time developing it so I'm thinking I should make some of them for some tool money. I haven't seen a line at the door yet ;) so I set and contemplate my next move. I do have a volunteer to test one and let me know what they think should I decide to make them.:D

[John R Green]

I have a 2005 Unisaw.
My buddy has a 1946 Unisaw.
He's a structural Engineer, builder & woodworker.
We'd be glad to install, use, evaluate & offer suggestions for modifications ( if needed ).
You could offer them on 1:1 ratio plans for the handy guys with the skill & tools to make it AND you could find a local guy that could make them, then sell to guys that want the "ready to install" version.
If you sell them, you'd want to check with a patent attorney to make sure you're not stepping on someone else's patent rights.
Another option is to offer them for "free" and users could send a donation which would gladly be accepted.
Food for thought.......

[Kent A Bathurst]

Cary - I was (more-or-less) joking with my LH request. Unless you already operate a business with a solid liability insurance policy, I wouldn't get anywhere near distributing plans - not for free, nor for love, nor money - not to mention selling fabricated shrouds. If you do have a business with an insurance policy, first ask your insurance agent, so that he/she can tell you "not on your nelly".

The shroud you sell could well end up being your own.

Sad, but true.

OK - all you Ryobi lawsuit ranters can jump in here. Keeton hasn't yet had a chance to lock out that topic - he's a Mod Minority of one. :p

[Cary Falk]

I don't want to get into full time production with these things. I don't own a business. I would rather not make these things for libality reasons. I would be more than happy to make some plans up and distribute them for a donation(I like that) to my tool fund. I do realize that some people do not have a wleder. I would be willing to weld up some for those folks. It's a shame you can't do anything anymore without the fear of getting sued.

[John R Green]

Cary,

You're just a regular ole guy like most of us on this site.
Your heart's in the right place.
I want to send a donation to the "C iF" you like it fund.
Post the address.

John

[Cary Falk]

Cary,

You're just a regular ole guy like most of us on this site.
Your heart's in the right place.
I want to send a donation to the "C iF" you like it fund.
Post the address.

John

John,
I will try to assist everybody that is interested in seeing one of these ;) if they send me a PM. The "tester" should be able to weigh in early next week if this thing is or isn't a turd.:eek:
Cary

[Mike Cruz]

Cary, so I have a few questions...

First of all, so how do you have this set up? Do you no longer have a 4" pipe running into the cabinet? Meaning, the only thing UNDER the blade is the 2.5" port? And over the blade, you have dust collection in your gaurd? You don't have a shop vac hooked up to that do you?

Secondly, what is your lead time and how much do you want for one? Seriously... I have a late 1990's right tilt Uni. I JUST changed out the 4" port for a 6" in the cabinet, but this sounds like great innovation.

[Cary Falk]

Mike,
I have a 2.5" to 4" donut jammed into my 4" dust port and the hose from the shroud stuck in that. I have that and a 4" connection to my Excalibur hooked up to my 1.5 hp DC. I don't have any other suction in the base of the cabinet right now. This thing sucks pretty hard and I don't see a whole lot of dust getting to the bottom of the cabinet. It just fell there anyway so if it does I will just scoop it out. I don't have a lot of data about how much will make it past the guard at this time.

I sent you a pm about your 2nd question.

[Cary Falk]

In order not to violate the TOS I am posting any further information on another site. PM me with any questions. Thanks Cary

[Mike Cruz]

Cary (and moderators) I hope we didn't steer you wrong by asking the questions we did about this shroud. I hope it didn't get you into a conflict with the rules.

This was an awewome little idea. I love to see ideas for something better actually happen.

[Paul Greathouse]

Cary

I think that you may have a need for a PATENT, what do the rest of you think?

[Cary Falk]

Cary (and moderators) I hope we didn't steer you wrong by asking the questions we did about this shroud. I hope it didn't get you into a conflict with the rules.

This was an awewome little idea. I love to see ideas for something better actually happen.

I can discuss techincal. I can't discuss business. I can answer PMs.:D

[Cary Falk]

Cary

I think that you may have a need for a PATENT, what do the rest of you think?

I don't have the money( I think somebody quoted $40k) for a patent even though I want one before I die.

[Cary Falk]

After further testing, the dust collection is not where I hoped it should be. I am pulling the plug till I have the time and heart to try to improve upon it.
Thanks,
Cary

[Mike Cruz]

Well, then cancel my order for 150 of them! :D

Sorry that it didn't work out on the beta version. Maybe instead of a 2.5" port, you could squeeze in an elongated 4". I realize that it is tight in there and you may not have the space for it...just a thought. Hope you've at least had some fun with the project and for your own sake, don't give up. Keep the think tank flowing...

[Cary Falk]

[QUOTE=Mike Cruz;1455030]Maybe instead of a 2.5" port, you could squeeze in an elongated 4".

Well you talked me into it today. I got an elongated 4" in today. It was an even bigger pain to fabricate. I painted it black because I ran out of grey and found out it is not the best color for pictures. I haven't tested the suck today. I will try it tomorrow. If this doesn't do it there is no hope.

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[Mike Cruz]

Cary, that looks great! The fact that you just increased it to 4" at the source of the cut has GOT to do a great job.

Maybe you already posted this info, but what kind of cfm and static pressure do you have at the saw with your DC? You mentioned that you not only are pulling from below the cabinet, but above, too. So, I woul assume you have a decently large DC. If you are still able to be pulling about 400 cfm through your flexpipe all the way to the shroud, I would imagine this MUST have worked. The saw only comes with a 4" port, and that is connected at the base of the unit, with leaks galore all over the saw. Mine actually did a decent job with the 4" port unless I started cutting very thick stock.

Congrats on the new design. And GOOD LUCK! Hope it works well. Let us know...

[Cary Falk]

Mike, I have a 1.5 hp Jet 1100 that I drag from tool to tool. I also have a one 1 hp portable that I am trying to integrate under my outfeet table. I have a switch next to the saw switch. If it has enough suck to take care of the overarm guard and the shroud I will continue with that since it is more convient to use. I have been cleaning the garage all morning . After I finish my break, I will got test it out.
Cary

[Cary Falk]

Well, that was a complete and utter disappointment. With the 4" hose, with or without the Excalibur, I am getting covered in sawdust. More than I think I have before the shroud. Not too much sawdust getting to the bottom of the cabinet but that is probably because it is coming out the top. I am really disappointed in the Excalibur at this point. I must be doing something wrong.

[Mike Cruz]

So, Cary, let me get this straight...

With a 4" hose hooked up to the shroud you made, and nothing else hooked up, you are not getting good dust collection?

I can see that with a 4" hose hooked up to the Excalibur AND a 4" hose hooked up to your shroud that you probably aren't getting good results with your DC because it probably isn't pulling 350-400 cfm out of both. Some others that are more familiar with your model etc may be able to chime in here, but I think your DC is underpowered for both to run at the same time.

I would think that it would be sufficient for one or the other, though.

Do you think it could be a matter of where on the shroud you connected the port? You may not have a choice because of space, but closer to the front, or directly on the bottom, or completelty aft, might make a difference.

While I don't want to create more work for you, and I know you are frustrated right now, I don't want you to give up on your idea. I think it is a great one, and succeeding at it would give you great personal joy. Giving up may haunt you. Then again, putting it aside to be picked up again at a later date might be less stressful...

Chin up!

[Cary Falk]

I think straight out the back woudl be ideal since most of them are desigened that way. I just don'w have the room. I removed it this morning and put it on the shelf. It will probably collect more dust that way.:rolleyes:. I may come back to it some day. I am in the mood right dow to sell the saw and get something with a riving knife and a dust shroud. Food thing the G1023 isn't available yet.

[glen pickren]

Cary, I noticed this thread has been inactive for several months but I hope you can answer a couple questions. You mentioned your shroud did not prevent you from being sprayed with dust, even with the Excaliber collector. What about dust coming out under the table? Is the shroud catching that or it is spilling out into or even outside the base?

The reason I ask is I have two saws: one, a Bosch job saw which comes with an under table collection shroud and the other a 1985 vintage Unisaw with a 4" Shark Guard collector.

The Bosch not only sprays me liberally with dust, but a lot of dust also escapes the collector under the table such that there is considerable dust to vacuum up on the floor and inside the saw housing. It would be much worse without the collector as a large volume of dust blasts out of the 2" port if a hose is not attached. The Bosch shroud is very similar to your design except that it moves up and down with the blade since it is an integrated unit.

The Unisaw with the 4" Shark Guard collector is another story. Ripping with the stock throat plate I get virtually zero dust above the table and none on me. Underneath, there is plenty of dust in the base and where it leaks out through numerous openings. Right now I have no pan in the bottom, plus the saw is raised up on a mobile base and I currently am also without a motor cover so there are many openings to leak dust. Still, it was a pretty simple task to vacuum up.

I have a 1.5 hp Delta 50-760 which I connected to Shark Guard with a 4" flex hose.

[Cary Falk]

Cary, I noticed this thread has been inactive for several months but I hope you can answer a couple questions. You mentioned your shroud did not prevent you from being sprayed with dust, even with the Excaliber collector. What about dust coming out under the table? Is the shroud catching that or it is spilling out into or even outside the base?

The reason I ask is I have two saws: one, a Bosch job saw which comes with an under table collection shroud and the other a 1985 vintage Unisaw with a 4" Shark Guard collector.

The Bosch not only sprays me liberally with dust, but a lot of dust also escapes the collector under the table such that there is considerable dust to vacuum up on the floor and inside the saw housing. It would be much worse without the collector as a large volume of dust blasts out of the 2" port if a hose is not attached. The Bosch shroud is very similar to your design except that it moves up and down with the blade since it is an integrated unit.

The Unisaw with the 4" Shark Guard collector is another story. Ripping with the stock throat plate I get virtually zero dust above the table and none on me. Underneath, there is plenty of dust in the base and where it leaks out through numerous openings. Right now I have no pan in the bottom, plus the saw is raised up on a mobile base and I currently am also without a motor cover so there are many openings to leak dust. Still, it was a pretty simple task to vacuum up.

I have a 1.5 hp Delta 50-760 which I connected to Shark Guard with a 4" flex hose.

There is about as much dust on the bottom of saw whether you have the shroud hooked up or you have a 4" hose connected to the bottom of the cabinet.

[Mike Cruz]

Cary, I know you've pretty much given up on this idea, but I do have a question for you. Was the 2.5" dust port towards the back of the blade, or was it towards the front of the blade. I would imagine that towards the front would be better, but of course, only a prototype would tell. I also know you put it where you could because of space restrictions. So, you may have been limited...

[David Christopher]

Cary, are you using a zero clearence insert, if so that would be a big problem

[glen pickren]

Cary, I know you've pretty much given up on this idea, but I do have a question for you. Was the 2.5" dust port towards the back of the blade, or was it towards the front of the blade. I would imagine that towards the front would be better, but of course, only a prototype would tell. I also know you put it where you could because of space restrictions. So, you may have been limited...

My Bosch 4100 TS port is also on the rear. It pretty much has to be because of tilt mechanism on the front. Also, it appears somewhat effective because the blade creates a strong blast of air out the dust port without a hose connected (which I might add would blow dust all over the shop if you didn't connect a vacuum.)

I am somewhat surprised that you find little difference in the sawdust under the table whether the shroud is in place or not, but I guess the real issue is that if it doesn't catch almost all of it there is no value. What I mean is that if you have to vacuum under the table anyway then you can vacuum a lot just about as fast as a little. It looks like the optimum solution is something like the Shark Guard to catch the above table dust (which mine does almost 100%) and then a 4" dust port in the base.

Too bad. Very nice welding job.

[Cary Falk]

Cary, I know you've pretty much given up on this idea, but I do have a question for you. Was the 2.5" dust port towards the back of the blade, or was it towards the front of the blade. I would imagine that towards the front would be better, but of course, only a prototype would tell. I also know you put it where you could because of space restrictions. So, you may have been limited...

The 2.5 and the 4" dust ports were off the back end but due to space they had to be off to the side instead of straight out of the back. Every dust shorud I have seen(PM, new Uni, Grizzly, etc) has been straight out the back. I sure that is for a reason because some of the saws don't look like they have a space restriction. I have given up on this. I traded my UNI for a G1023RL. Call me crazy or stupid but DC is miles ahead of what I had on the UNI and I am much happier. If anybody wants to continue this then I will share what I know but I will not be putting any more time into it.


It looks like the optimum solution is something like the Shark Guard to catch the above table dust (which mine does almost 100%) and then a 4" dust port in the base.

Too bad. Very nice welding job.
I was told by somebody that tested it with the 4" hose that it provided no improvement over a overhead guard and a port in the bottom of the cabinet. I have an Excalibur that I was not overly pleased with till I made a new basket for. With the old basket and a 4" port in the cabinet, I was getting almost as dusty as I was without anything. Thanks for the comments. Bondo and Paint works wonders.




Cary, are you using a zero clearence insert, if so that would be a big problemI was using a ZCI. I also tested with the dust door off to add more air flow and it still did not collect enough at the blade.

[Aaron Montgomery]

I have an Excalibur that I was not overly pleased with till I made a new basket for. With the old basket and a 4" port in the cabinet, I was getting almost as dusty as I was without anything.
Cary - I'd like to see you new basket. I've also not been overly thrilled with my Excalibur. Even when I cut off airflow to my cabinet, it still spits dust out the front of the blade guard. I've been contemplating building a new basket with the dust collection more toward the front (Take off on the side). Can you post pictures of your new basket? (Or did I already miss that thread?) I'd still like to believe that your under blade DC could be successful - I'd like to try something similar to what you've done.

[bridger berdel]

I have a 12/14. It's the big brother of your uni. I've long been thinking to do something like this for it.
The 12/14 has such a big cabinet that the dust spreads out before it gets to the dust port and makes big piles in the corners. I have a 4" pickup tube cast into the floor pointing straight up almost directly below the blade but still sawdust piles up until it buries the motor- not good.

Bridger

[David Kumm]

Cary, Post that over on OWWM. Those guys are unisaw crazy. I would like that on my rockwell 12-14. Dave

[bridger berdel]

I'm really sorry to see this project dead in the water. It's such an obviously useful upgrade to a vintage saw that I'm kinda surprised that some of the incredibly talented wood/metal workers around these parts haven't gotten after it and worked out the kinks.

Anyhow, it is something on my to do list, although not real near the top... but it's on my mind at the moment. I guess I'd like to keep this thread alive as a place to collect ideas links and notes.

Anybody seen it done successfully?

[bridger berdel]

To keep sawdust from leaking out over the top of the shroud when the blade is less than all of the way up(most of the time, right?) how about a smaller shroud that fits inside the main one, but is mounted to and hangs down from the table insert?

[Ed Edwards]

At the begining it looks like a great idea that you have come up with, I'm considering making one myself.

BUT, in this country, with all of the LEGALESE around, I don't think I'd go any farther without contacting an attorney. Just one accident and someone would own your soul. It's interesting how fast a friend or purchaser can call an attorney when an accident occurs.
Not trying to throw a wet blanket on a GREAT addition to the Unisaw.

Ed;)

[Mike Cruz]

Ed, not sure if you realize how old this thread is... And Cary pretty much nixed the idea IIRC. Good advice, though...

[Peter Berdos]

Hello,

I just bought a 1954 unisaw, in wonderful condition however no dust collection. I wondered if you offer the dust shroud for sale? or plans?

Thanks,
Pete

[Brian W Smith]

Am going to try and name this response in two notes..........

1>study existing shroud designs(NOT the saw they're bolted to)on $$$ German sliders.Sliders because,when viewing pics,you get very good glimpses of their shapes.

2>sharp corners,abrupt transitions,and hard R/L turns....do not equal max airflow.Think soft and round...not hard/square.


OK,maybe a third,haha......just remember Edison's quote on failed attempts.On design/builds like this,we don't even think building one.We'd be on our 3rd revision before the 1st even got bolted up.Meaning,when cutting out the 1st one........make some more.Leaving critical areas large.Also,don't forget you can build a wood "plug" and cover it with carbon fibre.....well,maybe fibre glass,haha.It's actually pretty fun for WW'ing folks who don't want to play sheetmetal man.Good luck.

[Jim Andrew]

I'd like one for a left tilt, but would advise you to be very careful, as you may find a need for liability insurance, and John already mentioned the patent attorney. You might visit with the guys at Shark Guard, they might be interested in another kind of dust shield, as they already make the above the table kind.

[Eddie Ziegler]

I know this post is a decade old but it's the best one I've found on this subject to date. Does OP or anyone else have the pics that were on Photobucket? I'm looking to add an under-blade shroud to my 36-812 as adding overhead DC in addition to the factory chute has helped only a little.

I know the newer Unisaws added this feature, thought about buying one of those and modding if needed but they're at least $80. Thanks!