Griz 18x47 or Jet 16x42 - Need Lathe Info

[William Hutchinson]

It’s either the Jet 16x42 2hp or the Grizzly G0698 18x47 lathes. The Jet is a proven design with a 5 year warranty. The Grizzly has very nice specs but is not time-tested and 1 year warranty. The issues that I’ve read about are with the inverters’ inability to maintain slow speeds <50 and tailstock excessive play.

To those who actually own or have used these machines, would you be so kind to offer any info/suggestions toward the Jet or Grizzly models. I will be using the lathe primarily for spindle work as I have several furniture projects, including bed posts, that the machine will be needed. I’m leaning toward the Grizzly with length and intro pricing.

Furthermore, I am well aware of stepping into the “Turners” forum is like mingling with crack dealers who offer free tastes. I’ve seen what you guys did to that poor Mr. Keeton, and it’s a pity watching a once respected man dyeing wood blue, playing with pearls and naming his bowls. :D

[Roger Chandler]

It’s either the Jet 16x32 2hp or the Grizzly G0698 18x47 lathes. The Jet is a proven design with a 5 year warranty. The Grizzly has very nice specs but is not time-tested and 1 year warranty. The issues that I’ve read about are with the inverters’ inability to maintain slow speeds <50 and tailstock excessive play.

To those who actually own or have used these machines, would you be so kind to offer any info/suggestions toward the Jet or Grizzly models. I will be using the lathe primarily for spindle work as I have several furniture projects, including bed posts, that the machine will be needed. I’m leaning toward the Grizzly with length and intro pricing.

Furthermore, I am well aware of stepping into the “Turners” forum is like mingling with crack dealers who offer free tastes. I’ve seen what you guys did to that poor Mr. Keeton, and it’s a pity watching a once respected man dyeing wood blue, playing with pearls and naming his bowls. :D


William,

I had the same reasons for getting the Grizzly G0698 for furniture parts, [I wanted the extra length between centers for bed posts and other large spindle turnings,but have used it a lot for bowls, etc as well]

It was probably my postings on the AAW forums that you noticed, and my original misunderstanding of the "hunt" below 100 rpm's was an issue of the way inverters are programmed. After having an electrical engineer explain the manufacturers did this to avoid overheating of the motor when run at low rpm for extended periods [such as sanding] that made me a lot more comfortable.

After owning this lathe for over 6 months, I am VERY happy with it, especially its performance and features. I have turned on a PM3520b and this lathe, [IMHO] performs on a par with it, except it does not have the extra centers for a template [comparator] and the cage [which I understand most turners take it off anyway] and it is not quite as heavy, and has 2" less swing.

The tailstock and banjo on my unit lock up solidly, and the centers on mine are dead on in alignment [level for the bed is a must] and the below 100rpm's has been overstated in importance, and does not matter in the end results in sanding at 100 rpm or 50 rpm.[Just the preference of some] and this lathe is not supposed to match everything one might get with a high end lathe costing $5000 or more, but it is a great machine for the price, and I believe is every bit as good as the Jet 16/42 which I almost bought before I settled on this one, which I have no regrets at all.

If you would like to speak with me and my experiences, then send me a private message, and we can share contact info if you like, and I might be able to answer your specific questions. I am not trying to sell you on any particular model or make, but I have first hand, up close and personal experience with the Grizzly 18/47 and it has been great for me. :)

[David E Keller]

Furthermore, I am well aware of stepping into the “Turners” forum is like mingling with crack dealers who offer free tastes. I’ve seen what you guys did to that poor Mr. Keeton, and it’s a pity watching a once respected man dyeing wood blue, playing with pearls and naming his bowls. :D

Now that's funny. I don't care care which lathe you get... I'm just looking forward to more posts like that.

[Roger Chandler]

Now that's funny. I don't care care which lathe you get... I'm just looking forward to more posts like that.


David,

I can't believe what "WE" did to poor Mr. Keeton? :D I think it is the other way around, don't you? He is the one who inspires the rest of us, and gee whiz, William might have a point about playing with dyes and such, but I have a feeling that the VORTEX just sucked another one in, an just keep gettin' bigger!

[Jake Helmboldt]

William, I just bought the 2HP 1642 a couple months ago and love it. I was sooo close to pulling the trigger on the Grizzly, but the track record of the Jet along with the warranty sold me on it.

I have to admit that I actually wanted a shorter lathe, so the Grizzly's extra length was actually a minus for me, but I wanted the extra swing of the Grizz. Everything in life is a tradeoff, eh?

I think the Grizz is probably a very good deal, and they have a good reputation for customer service. But an extra 4 yrs for peace of mind was worth the 2" reduction in swing.

Good luck choosing.

[Steve Kubien]

I know it is not one of the two lathes you mention but have you considered a Nova 1624 with a bed extension (to give you the length you need)? Priced at around $1300 (with the extension), you can get a fair bit of extra, much needed accessories like a sharpening rig, gouges, skews, a good chunk etc with the money you will save. No, it is does not have variable speed but it's got 8 speeds and changing the belt takes seconds.

Just an idea. Welcome to the Vortex.

[Michelle Rich]

I doubt many of us own both those lathes & can compare them...I do have the 1 1/2 1642..It is everything I have ever wanted in a lathe..but what I do with a lathe & you will do with yours, is the reason we have choices! Enjoy whatever you get..

[willie sobat]

I have the Jet and I love it. I bought it to replace a Grizzly. To be fair the Grizzly was a much lighter weight model. I also turn mostly for furniture and do not find the Jet lacking.

[John Keeton]

I’ve seen what you guys did to that poor Mr. Keeton, and it’s a pity watching a once respected man dyeing wood blue, playing with pearls and naming his bowls. :D
And, I have yet to forgive them!! :mad: :D:D

...but I have a feeling that the VORTEX just sucked another one in, an just keep gettin' bigger!The VORTEX feeds on poor, hapless, unsuspecting souls, that innocently amble into its realm, taking their will (and money!) and leaving them hopelessly shackled to a spinning piece of machinery to sustain the hypnotic state. A cruel, cruel existence.......:eek:

I vaguely recall the man I once was......:confused::rolleyes:

[William Hutchinson]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/alice-in-wonderland.jpg

Thanks all for the nudge or push-- I ordered the Grizzly--

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/Shop%20Tools/G0698Lathe.jpg

[John Keeton]

Congrats!! Not owning either, I couldn't comment. But, I can say that I was VERY close to buying the Grizzly before deciding on the Delta. I think you will be very happy with it.

[Roger Chandler]

William,

Congratulations on your purchase of the Grizzly G0698! If yours performs like mine, then you will be a happy camper, as I am. I would encourage you to put a shelf on the castings in the legs as it stiffens the whole unit from end to end, and if you make it out of 2x4's with 2 ribs for strength, then you could put sand in the boxes, and cover it with 1/2" plywood and have a good amount of ballast. [I needed the space for storage, so mine is just a shelf with some wood and pneumatic tools in blow molded cases]

Make sure you get your bed level from end to end, and front to back, as this is important for getting the centers aligned.

One other thing, I hope you don't feel like you were "nudged or Pushed," because it is the other way around: the Vortex "sucked" you in.....

Good luck!

[Roger Chandler]

I have the Jet and I love it. I bought it to replace a Grizzly. To be fair the Grizzly was a much lighter weight model. I also turn mostly for furniture and do not find the Jet lacking.


The former Grizzly's are not the same as this new model, it is much heavier, and is a good machine. It weighs more than the Jet 16/42.

[David Warkentin]

Please give us a review when you get it. I also was wondering about these two lathes. David

[David E Keller]

Perhaps JK could send you some dye, pearls, and a short list of proposed names for your upcoming lathe work.:D

Congrats on the purchase and looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Grizzly.

[Steve Kubien]

Congrats on the purchase. Hook, line and sinker. The Vortex claims another....:)

[Roger Chandler]

Perhaps JK could send you some dye, pearls, and a short list of proposed names for your upcoming lathe work.:D

Congrats on the purchase and looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Grizzly.


David,

Being as prepared as an attorney must be, I suspect that the now famous Mr. K, has already compiled a probable list of turnings, including names, form shapes, woods to be used, and colors with which he will finish them.

I envy his organizational skills, and only wish I had that kind of time and uncluttered gray matter....:confused:

[Dave MacArthur]

William,
Glad to see you ordered the Grizzly, it looks like a nice lathe.
I've been reading about it, the Jet 1642-2, and the PM, and have been hoping some more folks would be bold enough to purchase the Griz and provide feedback ;) It being so new, I can only find reviews by Mr. Roger Chandler (well written and thoughtful), your thoughts on your lathe when you receive it will be most welcome and helpful to "flesh out" the knowledge base on this lathe. It really does look good on paper and sounds like a great lathe from all that Roger has posted.

You know, I just re-read the thread, and I must say you really ARE bold! I see you just posted your initial question yesterday, and pulled the trigger today! WOW, that's decisive for tool shopping, at least for me! I usually post and research for a year or two lol. Keep us posted on it's arrival etc. if you would, I know there are many folks looking at this class of lathe interested in the Grizzly. Well done!

[Roger Chandler]

William,
Glad to see you ordered the Grizzly, it looks like a nice lathe.
I've been reading about it, the Jet 1642-2, and the PM, and have been hoping some more folks would be bold enough to purchase the Griz and provide feedback ;) It being so new, I can only find reviews by Mr. Roger Chandler (well written and thoughtful), your thoughts on your lathe when you receive it will be most welcome and helpful to "flesh out" the knowledge base on this lathe. It really does look good on paper and sounds like a great lathe from all that Roger has posted.

You know, I just re-read the thread, and I must say you really ARE bold! I see you just posted your initial question yesterday, and pulled the trigger today! WOW, that's decisive for tool shopping, at least for me! I usually post and research for a year or two lol. Keep us posted on it's arrival etc. if you would, I know there are many folks looking at this class of lathe interested in the Grizzly. Well done!

Dave,

On the other forum [AAW] there were others who posted about their new Grizz as well. Steve Bellinger comes to mind. Your critique of my reviews are thoughtful as well - thanks.

I will be most happy to have other owners post their reviews, because it gets lonely when you are the only one...:D

My thinking is that this lathe fills a niche in the market that will allow those who cannot afford the high end lathes to be able to get a large lathe with the performance and features that most turners want, at a price that is within reach of the average working guy/gal.

The Laguna owners for the most part have been happy as well, and the Hare & Forbes [Australia] and Busy Bee Craftex 128 {Canada} have given this line up good reviews as well.

[Perry Holbrook]

I posted this same question a few weeks back, and decided to go with the Grizzly. I didn't actually place the order until about 10 days ago. They are back ordered with an arrival date late July. I guess we'll both have too wait.

Perry

[Roger Chandler]

I posted this same question a few weeks back, and decided to go with the Grizzly. I didn't actually place the order until about 10 days ago. They are back ordered with an arrival date late July. I guess we'll both have too wait.

Perry


Perry,

Congratulations on your purchase. I found that a lot of times Grizzly seems to be able to get the shipment out earlier than stated. I don't know if that will pan out for you that way, but don't be surprised if it happens. Grizzly's customer service is usually great.

[Dave MacArthur]

I'm actually a HUGE fan of Grizzly, although I don't own their tools-- I'd decided to purchase several, particularly a band saw, but that plan got superseded by some deals I found on CL. But I do like the company and the tools of theirs I've seen and used. In fact, I like their act enough that my desire to support the company is a significant factor in my purchasing decisions. Their lathes in the past were the ONLY tool they sold that I felt I didn't want due to reviews, weird specs, and speeds too high.

Now the only tool I still want/need is a lathe, so I'm hoping to keep hearing good things on this new Griz lathe. I've pretty much decided that the pleasure of using and owning a well-performing high-quality top-end tool is significant enough to me to warrant their purchase, which in the area of lathes is conflicting with my desire to own some Grizzly product. So I'm interested and happy to hear good things on the G0698. I never could square up in my mind how incredibly responsive to customer feedback Grizzly was with Band Saws, and very quick to introduce improved versions, with the lack-luster reviews given their lathes, and kept waiting to see the same thirst for quality and feature improvement displayed--looks like this may be it!

[Roger Chandler]

I'm actually a HUGE fan of Grizzly, although I don't own their tools-- I'd decided to purchase several, particularly a band saw, but that plan got superseded by some deals I found on CL. But I do like the company and the tools of theirs I've seen and used. In fact, I like their act enough that my desire to support the company is a significant factor in my purchasing decisions. Their lathes in the past were the ONLY tool they sold that I felt I didn't want due to reviews, weird specs, and speeds too high.

Now the only tool I still want/need is a lathe, so I'm hoping to keep hearing good things on this new Griz lathe. I've pretty much decided that the pleasure of using and owning a well-performing high-quality top-end tool is significant enough to me to warrant their purchase, which in the area of lathes is conflicting with my desire to own some Grizzly product. So I'm interested and happy to hear good things on the G0698. I never could square up in my mind how incredibly responsive to customer feedback Grizzly was with Band Saws, and very quick to introduce improved versions, with the lack-luster reviews given their lathes, and kept waiting to see the same thirst for quality and feature improvement displayed--looks like this may be it!

Hi Dave,

It is unfortunate that the reputation Grizzly had in the past regarding lathes was lacking. They have turned the corner on the G0698 in my opinion for the hobbyist woodturner. This unit has 2 hp,TEFC AC motor with Variable frequency drive by means of a 3 phase converter , reversing, 4-3/8 inch self ejecting quill, and solidly locking headstock, tail stock and banjo.

If I could have another feature it would have been that it would have come with a handwheel, but that has not been an issue at all [the Australian turners have made one for theirs], they just have a locking spindle with pin, and I wish it came with a 2nd smaller tool rest to get into tighter places, but an aftermarket rest takes care of that easily.

It is easy for marketing to skew a persons decision making, and the postings of one dissatisfied person can turn a lot of people off; as can the postings of one person that is positive and had good experiences affect others as well. Realizing that, my postings are my honest and true experiences from the 6+ months I have used this lathe so far. My integrity is important to me, and if the lathe had not performed so well for me, I would not have been willing to endorse it the way I have.

I am a 20+ year woodworker, who has no agenda other than enjoying the different aspects of this craft, of which wood turning is one of the aspects I have come to really enjoy. Until I bought this lathe, I don't think I have ever posted on any forum or participated in any club, such as our local turners club and the AAW.

when the Grizzly G0698 came on the market, I had already done a lot of research, and was about to purchase the Jet 16/42, because my old lathe broke a gear shaft and no replacement could be found anywhere [scrap metal time :(] so my research left me with an understanding of the features I wanted, and the G0698 fit the bill and had more capacity in swing and between centers than the Jet. I researched the Laguna 18x47, and the Busy Bee Craftex 128, and the Hare & Forbes 18x47, and found that most owners were singing the praises of this line of lathes, and I knew of Grizzly's reputation for customer service.

I wanted to get a good featured lathe I could afford, have availability of parts and service if needed in the future, and the G0698 fit the bill in all respects. My pleasant surprise came when I experienced the superb performance..... that is why I am a happy camper!

Hope this helps a bit.

[William Hutchinson]

William,
You know, I just re-read the thread, and I must say you really ARE bold! I see you just posted your initial question yesterday, and pulled the trigger today! WOW, that's decisive for tool shopping, at least for me! I usually post and research for a year or two lol. Keep us posted on it's arrival etc. if you would, I know there are many folks looking at this class of lathe interested in the Grizzly. Well done!

Not too bold, either of the lathes would be a giant leap up from my humble Harbor Freight 34706.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/Shop%20Tools/34706HarborFreightLathe.jpg

Just as Perry said, the lathe is out of stock and the next shipment is due July 16th; which will allow time to rearrange the shop.


...The VORTEX feeds on poor, hapless, unsuspecting souls, that innocently amble into its realm, taking their will (and money!) and leaving them hopelessly shackled to a spinning piece of machinery to sustain the hypnotic state...


...One other thing, I hope you don't feel like you were "nudged or Pushed," because it is the other way around: the Vortex "sucked" you in...


Congrats on the purchase. Hook, line and sinker. The Vortex claims another....:)

Vortex!:eek: What I see is you evil folks using the mythical vortex as a ruse to infect others with your ill placed addiction for instant gratification. Bowls, plates and platters are for the weak. Magnificent and bold turnings that are the pillars of chests, desks and beds are my calling. No berets and art gallery silliness in my shop.;)

[John Keeton]

Vortex!:eek: What I see is you evil folks using the mythical vortex as a ruse to infect others with your ill placed addiction for instant gratification. Bowls, plates and platters are for the weak. Magnificent and bold turnings that are the pillars of chests, desks and beds are my calling. No berets and art gallery silliness in my shop.;)Ahhh, but your actions belie your words!!!:rolleyes:

That 34706 would have worked just fine for all that spindle turning! As a former owner of the HF, I know of what I speak.

Though you may not have reached that point in your therapy where you acknowledge your weakness;), the truth of the matter is - deep down, there is a bowl turner inside you screaming for release!!:D:D I suspect we shall see vivid proof of that very soon - about mid - late July!!

[Roger Chandler]

Ahhh, but your actions belie your words!!!:rolleyes:

That 34706 would have worked just fine for all that spindle turning! As a former owner of the HF, I know of what I speak.

Though you may not have reached that point in your therapy where you acknowledge your weakness;), the truth of the matter is - deep down, there is a bowl turner inside you screaming for release!!:D:D I suspect we shall see vivid proof of that very soon - about mid - late July!!


John,

Methinks that the rest of us "addicts" can easily spot another, because we have all been down that same path, and know where it leads! I am confident that William will indeed release the bowl-turner of his inner self, even if doesn't yet realize it is there!

Oh, by the way, there is a standing "VORTEX disclaimer" that goes with every recommendation from all the "addicts" on this forum!

Methinks one cannot help one's self :D:eek:;)

[Roger Chandler]

I just heard from an owner of the Busy Bee Craftex version of the 18x47 lathe, and he says it is a solid workhorse of a machine. He has turned many large size projects, and has posted a picture on the AAW forum of a good sized doughnut chuck he has made, and uses regularly.

I refer to this to give some context for the satisfaction of most owners of this line up of 18x47 lathes, and to let those interested know that it has a track record of manufacture since 2007 and should not be feared as something brand new and untested.

The more context we have the better decisions we can make, and hearing from owners in Canada, USA and Australia all speak of their satisfaction with the power and performance of this line up, should, help those who are in the "thinking" process, and help a bit.

[Karl Card]

One thing about it is this..... if you get the grizzly and by chance it doesnt do everything you need, well just order a jet or one of the other choices to park beside it.... a man can never have to many lathes...

As far as Mr. Keeton goes.....look at those eyes in his avatar.... he has the look of "oh my God, I have been had by the vortex".

All in fun John, your a good guy and we just need to see a pen from you...lol

[Roger Chandler]

William,

Something I have noticed lately in the projects I have been turning on the Grizzly G0698. I have noticed the aforementioned "hunt below 100rpm" has gotten better as I have used the lathe over the last few months. When it was new the "hunt" was more noticeable than it is now. By "noticeable" I mean that I can go below to about 60 or 70 rpm before it is noticeable on the low belt setting, and on the high belt setting it will turn smoothly at 180-190 rpms and will go all the way to 3260 rpm on this belt setting.

Now, I don't know if that is just the unit breaking in, or how to explain it, but it seems to be getting better as I go along, and when having a blank mounted in a chuck it seems to be smoother at low speeds than with no blank mounted. Just my observation....I found it interesting, for whatever its worth?

I used the lathe a little this evening and my satisfaction just keeps getting re-enforced every time I use it....I think you will be very pleased when yours arrives!

[Roger Chandler]

I doubt many of us own both those lathes & can compare them...I do have the 1 1/2 1642..It is everything I have ever wanted in a lathe..but what I do with a lathe & you will do with yours, is the reason we have choices! Enjoy whatever you get..

Michelle,

While it is true that most likely not many of us own both these machines and can compare them side by side, I have seen both perform up close and personal. Both are great performing machines.

Having turned on a PM 3520b, and other lathes, this Grizzly G0698 performs on a par with the 3520b, and better than most other lathes I have turned on, and has features that match up with the Jet 16/42 with the exception of the cage, and it does have more capacity.

My point, is simply, that a knowledge base does exist, but not by that many, I agree. I think the Jet is a wonderful unit, as is the PM3520b, but this Grizzly G0698 will perform with them both.

[Roger Chandler]

I spoke with customer service today concerning a 2nd tool rest assembly I had ordered for my Grizzly G0698, and they told me it was looking like August 4th for that part.

I asked about the new shipment of the G0698 model lathes, because I thought that perhaps the part I ordered might come in with the lathe shipment. They said the lathes were due in mid-July, and the part I ordered was most likely going to arrive separately.

Just thought that those who ordered this lathe might want to hear what I was told about an arrival date for the G0698 lathes.

[Perry Holbrook]

I just checked with Grizzly on the ship date for the G0698, rather than the July 16th date (that was never confirmed) the new date is Aug 20th, and that date is also not cofirmed.

I guess I'll go with the Jet, since I've got the spaced cleared, electrical and dust almost complete and I just this morning scored several large ambrosia Maple blanks at the local saw mill.

Perry

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have turned on the almost identical Busy Bee CT128 lathe, I never noticed any hunting at low speed, maybe different electronics in that model.
There was 2 things I didn't like on that lathe, the handles to tighten the toolrest and lock the tailstock ram were low quality and this was also the case with others that bought that lathe, though for a few dollars you can get good quality handles, the other thing I don't like is the way they made the banjo where the pillar is wedge shaped and the wide part on the bottom can and does prevent the toolrest from being set close to the wood as the pillar will run into the wood before you get close.
Now other than these two things, I think it is a very fine lathe.
If I bought that lathe I would give it a good spot and bold it down to the floor and be turning both big and small pieces on it, it is a smooth running machine, but for my style of turning I would want it to be rock solid, it is just a little light weight for me, but for the price it beats all the competition, actually I don't think it has any at that price point, just my 2 cents Canadian

[Roger Chandler]

I have turned on the almost identical Busy Bee CT128 lathe, I never noticed any hunting at low speed, maybe different electronics in that model.
There was 2 things I didn't like on that lathe, the handles to tighten the toolrest and lock the tailstock ram were low quality and this was also the case with others that bought that lathe, though for a few dollars you can get good quality handles, the other thing I don't like is the way they made the banjo where the pillar is wedge shaped and the wide part on the bottom can and does prevent the toolrest from being set close to the wood as the pillar will run into the wood before you get close.
Now other than these two things, I think it is a very fine lathe.
If I bought that lathe I would give it a good spot and bold it down to the floor and be turning both big and small pieces on it, it is a smooth running machine, but for my style of turning I would want it to be rock solid, it is just a little light weight for me, but for the price it beats all the competition, actually I don't think it has any at that price point, just my 2 cents Canadian


Hi Leo,

I have the Grizzly G0698, and have turned on it for over 6 months. I realize that some folks did have issues with the locking handles, but my Grizzly has not had any problems whatsoever. I was told by someone that Grizzly had the sockets deepened in order for them to seat better.

I put a shelf on the leg castings for ballast, and to stiffen the whole thing from end to end, and my lathe is very stable.

I have not had any problems as well with the pillar on the banjo interfering with getting close to the wood. I will say that I wish my unit had come with a smaller tool rest as well as the 14 inch one, but an aftermarket rest took care of that easily.

You are definitely correct about it being smooth and powerful. It is also loaded with features, most match up well with the PM3520b and the Jet 16/42. I think this lathe fills a niche for those who can't pay what a high end lathe costs, but it performs like lathes costing twice as much or more.

Also, the hunt at below 100 rpm is the way Grizzly has the inverter programmed to avoid overheating the motor when run for extended periods at very low rpm. [At least that what has been said, by an electrical engineer, and tech support]

[Kirk Miller]

Does the new Grizzly have a hand wheel on the headstock?

[Roger Chandler]

Does the new Grizzly have a hand wheel on the headstock?

Kirk,

No, there is no hand wheel on the headstock of the grizzly G0698, however, it is not needed, because of the spindle lock design. I have not had a need for one at all with this unit.

If you do want one, however, you can make one. The owners in Australia have posted pictures on their forum on how they have made several styles. There are two tapped holes in the outer pulley on the spindle that one can be attached to by use of bolts [machine screws] and you can just turn one out of your favorite hardwood, and then drill two holes to mate up with the holes in the pulley, and you're off. Here is the link:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/changing-guard-115302/

I have thought about making one for my Grizz, but just have not gotten around to it yet, but I don't really need it. It just be an accessory that I might would use if I did have it.......... This is a great performing lathe, that in my opinion performs on a par with the PM3520b....I have turned on both!

good luck!