Neander Buddy Question

[Rick Rutten]

Hi Everyone,

I have heard bandsaws refered to as "Neander-buddies." I prefer to use hand tools for most of my tasks and only have a few power tools. However, ripping long stretches of 4x or even 2x is a bit daunting. So, is it worthwhile to get a bandsaw if you don't already have one? I could just get a couple of better rip saws and move on. Grizzly has some enticing deals on a 17" bandsaw http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-2-HP-Bandsaw-Polar-Bear-Series/G0513P for a limited time. I may be resawing some logs < 12". I would also like to be able to cut the widths I like. For now I am just building workbenches and yard stuff. No fine furniture yet so I am not sure if it is worth the $s.

I am working on domestic clearence for this if I move forward. Preparation is what makes and opportunity reality so I am doing my research. I have read reviews and comments here and on the web. Now am asking here for the unplugged perspective. So, 14", 17" or a couple of sharp hand saws? Let me know what you think. I'll rationalize the rest.

Thanks,
Rick

[Wayne Hendrix]

Others may feel differently but to me the answer is entirely up to you. If you are trying to say that your products are built completely by hand then avoid the bandsaw. However, if you are simply trying to work efficiently and do what you can by hand then the bandsaw is a good idea. Ultimately the choice as to how you integrate power and handtools in your work is entirely up to you and dont let people tell you otherwise.

As far as bandsaws the one that you are looking at is an excellent bandsaw and if you are considering one I dont think I would let that introductory price go by. The only other one you might consider at that price point would be the RIKON 10-325 14", Woodcraft has it for $699 right now. It has the same 12" cutting height as the Grizzly but it has a smaller motor and and less rip capacity.

[James Taglienti]

a neanderbuddy?

if you're going to go non-neander to rip something, might as well do it right and go to the tablesaw.

[David Weaver]

I can't say I do a lot of rip with my bandsaw, but it's the one power tool that I wouldn't go without. It's about the size of the saw you mentioned, and I use it to thickness wood and to rough out wood that's getting used for oddball stuff like plane parts or tool handle blanks.

If I don't have a deadline, I like to rip and crosscut wood by hand, but I don't like to resaw.

My bansaw has helped me pretty much put away my lunchbox planer for good. the only power planer I ever had a tolerance for is a buddy's DC580 with a spiral head, and that's not on my menu of things to get any time soon.

Go ahead and get the 17/18 inch sized bandsaw. they hardly take up any floor space, and you'll appreciate the size when you get to using it.

Carbide blade is a nice thing to have, too, so if you see one of them floating around for $75 on one of these deals, open your wallet. If you end up using your bandsaw as a thicknesser or resaw machine like I do, it'll save you time - the finish they leave is really nice. Quick pass with a smoother or scraper and you're done.

[Brian Greb]

That would be my friend the cave man. ...he only uses stone tools.:D

Seriously though I'm probably the worst person to respond due to I work power full time and I work strictly hand tools part time. I see no problem using a BS to increase productivity... but as James said why not go all the way and use a TS. The use of strictly hand tools to build pieces is a personal choice... and it's all about how valuable your time is and how you would prefer to spend it.

[Don Dorn]

Everyone has thier priorites and mine is a comprimise. I'm far from the neander that some are, but it's the part I enjoy the most. I use power for face jointing, then thicknessing. Tablesaw and bandsaw for getting material close to end measurements. I'll even admit that if I'm doing dovetails in hardwood and it's 3/4 or thicker, the tails are done on the bandsaw (free hand). I also don't want to give up my drum sander.

The handtools are for edge jointing, rounding, fitting, raising panels, (ok, some work to do yet there) shaping, planing, scraping and about any other function I can think of to avoid getting a router out.

[Rick Rutten]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Please keep it coming.

Table saws are a non-starter for me. I am a big chicken when it comes to having things launched at me. The recent thread in the General Woodworking forum is a good reminder: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=142381 So I'll stick with mostly human powered abuse for the wood shop. I already have a few cuts from that as it is.

Rick

[Bruce Haugen]

I got mine (14" Delta) about 25 years ago to do a project that couldn't be done without it (so I told my LOML and she went along with it:D). It doesn't get used all the time, but trust me when I tell you that you'll find many good uses for it.

I'm a hybrid worker, using whatever tool I have that fits the project at hand. There are three electron-burning saws in the shop: SCMS, table saw and band saw. Sure, you can do without them, but they're each handier than the dickens.

And this is one of those times I get to crow, because I coined the term "neanderbuddy" years ago on the Oldtools list. Yup, that's me!

[george wilson]

Back in the 60's,I only had a table saw,a 14" bandsaw,and a drill press. Still have them. But,the machine I used the most was the bandsaw. I seldom used the table saw. I was making guitars,not furniture,though. The bandsaw would be my choice for resawing in any case. If you are good with it,you can save much more wood with the bandsaw. I was always anxious to get that extra thickness of Brazilian rosewood if possible,instead of letting the tablesaw gobble it up with 3 or 4 1/8" kerfs. Plus,the 10" saw will only cut so deep. My 14" Delta with riser block will cut 12" deep.

[Tom McMahon]

I have a full shop, 2 table saws, 2band saws, RA saw, sliding miter saw, chop saw. If I had to sell all but one, I would keep my 14 inch band saw with a riser block. I use it constantly, every day. The rest sit there for weeks at a time if not months.

[Bob Easton]

I have a 14 inch bandsaw that I use very rarely. In fact, I use it more often for whacking offcuts down to trash can size than for anything else.

Since building a really good frame saw for ripping, I find ripping no big deal. Being my woodworking is powered by Milky Way and Snickers bars, hand sawing is almost essential. Even for resawing. See my tutorial on resawing boat lumber: http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/?p=475

Sounds like you're lusting to buy something. Go ahead, if you want.

[Rick Rutten]

Sounds like you're lusting to buy something. Go ahead, if you want.

Bob you may be more on target than I like to admit. Thank you very much for the link to your tutorial. I will read it carefully to see if I can do that.

I checked in the wiring for the 17" vs. 14" with risers. Looks like the 17" is rewired for 220V and the 14" is not lear but wold only need 110V at 10A. The 17 would require some additonal wiring in the garage. The 14 may be plug and play. Since we are moving in three or four years that may be a factor.

This is starting to sound like a recent thread we just had about a #7 vs #8. Maybe I should just reread that!

Thanks again for the insights.
Rick

[Jon van der Linden]

It all depends on what you're doing. That said, a bandsaw would be my #1 recommendation for a power tool. The bandsaw is relatively safe, allows cutting of sawn veneers and makes curved cuts of all types a lot more fun. You can also resaw bookmatched panels or resaw to a desired thickness, a highly desirable quality because stock thicknesses of wood are usually aesthetically wrong for cabinetry and furniture.

[Jim Koepke]

Of all the power tools available, one of mine is a band saw. If there were suddenly a wad of cash in my shop that could only be spent on a power tool, I would buy a better band saw.

There is the hand tool only "fantasy" but as many have said before, if the folks back in the 17th and 18th century had power tools, they would not have hesitated to use them.

My thoughts on Neander woodworking is that it is not broken by the use of a power tool here and there.

I can crosscut cleaner and almost as fast with a hand saw. Same with short rips. With a power saw, I would likely spend more time cleaning the cut after using power equipment than the extra time required to cut by hand.

jim

[Michael Peet]

I use my bandsaw all the time; much more than the tablesaw. I would not be able to work without it, in fact.

Mike

[john brenton]

I don't see anyone here mentioning the frame saw for resawing, although I know its mentioned fairly regularly here. I know I've had success with it, as well as many others on the forum. I don't do it to be "authentically hand made", as soon as I get enough money to buy a good band saw I will. I'm trying to get into making small guitars using the 4/4 and 8/4 wood I already have, and buying an expensive power tool for something that I haven't made single penny doing won't really get the wifey's socks rolling up and down. The thrill of doing it by hand is gone, its just muscle memory and sweat, followed by more sweat planing the saw marks off...but what am I going to do?

Maybe you should look into the frame saw for resawing if you haven't already? At least to give it a shot before getting the band saw?

[Rick Rutten]

John you may have a good option there. I am having trouble getting the domestic easement. Maybe Father's Day will help.;) Kits for frame saws seem to be runnign about $150 on TFWW. At least that is what I recall.

I think/hope one of my fall/winter projects is to build an 000 of Engleman/Rosewood. It is a kit so the bandsaw may not come in to play right away.

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's out there!
Rick

[Tri Hoang]

Get a good band saw. The Ricon is a nice one if space is a problem. I'd go with a Ricon or a Griz with cast iron wheel. Cost-wise, it's relatively inexpensive compared to recent crop of new hand saws (TFWW, LN, Cosman, BadAxe...) and it replaces a bunch of them.

Unless you really want to go 100% neander, get a band saw. I sold my 8" jointer, 15" planer, and PM2000 table saw a while back but kept the band saw. I view the band saw as a motorized hand saw...and it's really what it is.

I had a Griz G0513X2 and the table has warped on me in less than a year. The cast iron table is pretty thin. It's also a real chore to change blades on that saw. Other than that, it's been pretty solid.

[DOUG ANGEL]

Hybrid woodworking is the way to go. Power tools can be precise and reduce time, but lack that something, soul mabe. Turn on your router and dust collector and watch everyone else in the house disappear. Get a good band saw, I have two, a ten inch cheapo and 14 in. Jet, I use them both.

[David Keller NC]

Rick - If you don't have the room or $ for both a table saw and a band saw, then I would definitely buy a band saw. It does mean a bit more work than table saw when it comes to prepping ripped edges. Even if you're very, very good at the bandsaw and your saw is very well tuned, the surface left behind is generally not good enough for gluing, and at least in my experience, takes more passes with a jointer plane to clean up than a table-saw ripped edge.

However, you really can't effectively (or safely) re-saw with a table saw, and a bandsaw takes up far less room. Sooner or later, you will definitely want to re-saw planks. It can be done with a handsaw for short pieces (under 3 feet), but it's incredibly laborious for long planks and hard wood.

Regarding which one, I would recommend that you look at Jet's new 18" triangular-frame model. They're a bit more money, but amortized over 10 years or more, it's pretty small potatos. I've compared (and used) the Jet, Rikon, and Shop Fox (the store brand for Grizzly) side-by-side, and the Jet wins by a very wide margin. In particular, while the Rikon is a fairly nice saw, the guides as supplied by the factory really, really suck. The shop fox that I compared was, well, rough - many of the adjustments were not very smooth. Perhaps a bit of time and lubricating oil might fix that issue, but the Jet was, in my opinion, an incredible bargain. Especially compared to high-end models like the Lagunas, which are several thousand more for the same capacity.

My only wish for the Jet was that it have a larger re-saw capacity (it's 12"), or I would've replaced my trusty Delta pretty much instantly. Perhaps a subsequent model will have a 16" re-saw.

[James Owen]

I have to agree with David on this: go for the Jet.

I don't own a band saw (used to own a Craftsman before I knew any better, but that's a different story.....), but work at a Woodcraft that has a Jet 18" BS in the classroom. Compared to just about everything else that has come through the store and that I've had a chance to play with (yes, there are certain advantages to working at a toy store... :D), with the exception of the Powermatic, the Jet wins hands down: smoothness of adjustments, stability, flatness of the table, ease of using the factory fence, durability, etc. This saw has been used (and unfortunately sometimes abused) for over 8 years and just keeps cruising along; not sure that some of the other brands would......

Anyway, there's my nickel's worth, for whatever that might be worth....

[Casey Gooding]

If I had to choose between a table saw and a bandsaw when working with solid stock, I would choose the bandsaw every time.

[john brenton]

You shouldn't have to shell out much cash for a frame saw...in fact, I made mine out of some oak stock I had laying around and hardware from ACE.

Here's a good article on it:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=106409


John you may have a good option there. I am having trouble getting the domestic easement. Maybe Father's Day will help.;) Kits for frame saws seem to be runnign about $150 on TFWW. At least that is what I recall.

I think/hope one of my fall/winter projects is to build an 000 of Engleman/Rosewood. It is a kit so the bandsaw may not come in to play right away.

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's out there!
Rick

[Rick Rutten]

They're a bit more money, but amortized over 10 years or more, it's pretty small potatos.

Dave and James, the Jet is a very nice band saw. 3 hp would be a lot of fun. At that price I may have to amoratize in a divorce atttorney too. Or at least a new bedroom on the back of the garage.... with no heat.

John I'll take a look at the frame saw article. Thanks for the link.

For cost and function it looks like a 14" with a riser kit may be the route to go. The difference is about $250 to my door. I would love to get bigger but the real world comes in to play. Now I need the patience or diplomacy for the proper clearances. Hopefully that will happen before the Grizzly sale ends. If not, I'll need to wait. Who knows, maybe by then I will be good with a frame saw and not need it.

Thanks again everyone for the great advise!

Rick