Grizzly dc port design 15" planer

[scott vroom]

When my G0453Z 15" planer arrived I discovered the 4" dust port comes out straight over the front of the outfeed table. When I attach my flexible hose it slumps over the center of the outfeed table making it impossible to run stock through without someone or something support the hose above the table. Just a really poor design IMO. Here's the kicker: The owner's manual that came with my machine shows a headstock breakdown on page 49, including a dust port that clearly angles 45 degrees off center, which would allow the DC hose to fall off to the side of the outfeed table. This is the proper design and is similar to what Jet provides on their 15" planer. I called Grizzly tech support and they could not explain why the manual shows a 45 degree angled port while my machine arrived with a straight port.

I'm heading up to my local Woodcraft store tomorrow to look for a 45 elbo that I can use to get the DC hose out of the way.

[James Baker SD]

most of the 4 post 15" Taiwanese planers seem very, very similar. Maybe you could get a 45 degree dust port as a replacement part from Jet or Powermatic. I think PM wants about $45 for theirs.

James

[Brian Kincaid]

Better yet cut and enlarge it to 5" or so while you're at it. I'll be doing that with mine (same planer).

Brian

[James Baker SD]

Brian's idea is better than mine.

James

[Dan Friedrichs]

A 4" sch40 PVC ell would be a lot cheaper.

I know your frustration, though - the venerable DW735 also has a port that goes straight out the back. I often catch the hose on a board.

[scott vroom]

Better yet cut and enlarge it to 5" or so while you're at it. I'll be doing that with mine (same planer).

Brian

What's the advantage of enlarging the hole to 5"? My DC hose is 4".

I'll probably go with the 45 elbo fix from Woodcraft - still, it will cost me 15 dollars plus my time, and will be a kluge fix.

[Brian Kincaid]

What's the advantage of enlarging the hole to 5"? My DC hose is 4"....

None if your DC hose is 4". My flex hose/drops are 5" which is a good size to maintain cfm for hobby shop DCs (ala Oneida, bill pentz cfm spreadsheet...). Looking back it was probably a knee-jerk recommendation because I will be doing it to my planer hood; not taking into account your collection system.

Sorry for the confusion.
-Brian

[Van Huskey]

Most of the 15" gereric four post planers have that issue. Powermatic and Jet fixed it the rest haven't bothered. In the end dust collection is THE weak point of traditional North American machines. Sawstop and Powermatic started with the table saw and it is trickling down hopefully it will spread to the rest of the machines. The 15 & 20 inch planers need a better designed 5 or 6" port for example.

[Lance Norris]

Gosh... a simple string hanging from the ceiling, tied around the hose, fixed the problem for me...

[scott vroom]

Gosh... a simple string hanging from the ceiling, tied around the hose, fixed the problem for me...

That would work if the planer was stationary. I move mine around my small shop.

[Paul McGaha]

It would also be nice to have an option as to is the angle to the left or the right.

I have a Powermatic 15 HH that is built similar to Scott's Grizzly. It comes with a transition piece that if you were standing behind the planer the dust collection port it angles off to your right (only).

It would have worked better for my dust collection lay out if it had angled off to the left. I had to add a 90 degree elbow at the planer to get the dust collection outlet heading toward the left side of the planer.

PHM

[Shiraz Balolia]

Shiraz, fair enough. One solution would be for Grizzly to offer an angled dust port as an after market option in the catelog. I'd prefer spending a few extra bucks on an elegant solution rather than taking the time to piece together a kluge solution using an elbow and coupling between the port and the quick release hose adapter. Looks to me like a simple after market install.

That's a good suggestion and I will work on that. Hopefully it will be in the 2011 catalog.

[Van Huskey]

I'd prefer spending a few extra bucks on an elegant solution rather than taking the time to piece together a kluge solution using an elbow and coupling between the port and the quick release hose adapter. Looks to me like a simple after market install.

Not 100% sure but if I am reading the parts manual/pricing correctly the Jet seems available for a little over $15 plus shipping, didn't follow through the check out so can't say if the shipping is stupid or not.

[Dave Lehnert]

Well.........If someone asked me:) I think we would not have near the tools available to us, from any manufacture, if it were not for Grizzly.
I think the fact you see other manufactures making improvements is in response to Grizzly taking the market. I was told by a local dealer (True? I have no idea) That Grizzly sells more tools than all the others combined. Jet/ Powermatic had the corner on wood lathes.

[Van Huskey]

Well.........If someone asked me:) I think we would not have near the tools available to us, from any manufacture, if it were not for Grizzly.
I think the fact you see other manufactures making improvements is in response to Grizzly taking the market. I was told by a local dealer (True? I have no idea) That Grizzly sells more tools than all the others combined. Jet/ Powermatic had the corner on wood lathes.

I would ABSOLUTELY agree wth that and said as much. Jet then Grizzly innovated going to Asia to bring tools in at a price point more people could afford. Grizzly continued to increase quality and the pressure forced the hand of the "premium" brands, given they could not live on reputation nor made in America forever and probably could not compete on price and keep their dealer network they did the only thing they could to attempt to justify their pricing and that was to include innovation. Classic examples of this are the PM2000 and the new Uni.

I have great respect and appreciation for what Jet and Grizzly have done for the woodworking hobby and we see lots of benefits from both of them throughout the market.

[glenn bradley]

Gosh... a simple string hanging from the ceiling, tied around the hose, fixed the problem for me...

I use bungees from the rafters for such things. It seems that even the 45* as shown in the manual would still allow the hose to be more in the way than I would care for. I think your after-market fix may be better than the "correct" stock one :).

[scott vroom]

This thread was about whether an external sheet metal hood with a hole should aim left, right, or straight ahead. Personally I don't see this as an issue of innovation, rather one of design choice.

Now if someone could figure out how to make dust evaporate before exiting the machine, THAT would be an innovation;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Let's tone it down a bit.

I am really close to locking this thread.

What I think we have here is two strong personalities with neither wanting give the other guy an inch. Neither is completely wrong nor completely right.

Point blank.

Based on 34 years of experience of installing systems that cost up to several million dollars each and manufactured here and overseas, I don't care where or by whom something is designed, eventually one won't work out at someones particular installation and modifications will be required. So what? If the damned planar was designed with a rotating goose-neck, someone would find fault with it.

Personally I believe it was probably designed for an overhead drop to the dust port. Just my opinion.

Secondly, Van I think Shiraz has a point. Since you are not privileged to sit in on company meetings and don't have the inside details, neither you nor I have an idea of the number of innovations that have been designed and implemented by Grizzly in their equipment. We don't know.

Shiraz......I agree with the other poster, to a certain extent you are being overly sensitive. When you sell the volume of tools you sell, you are going to have a number of discontented customers. Some of the same type of customers, I have had to deal with them in my business. Sometimes you wonder if you wouldn't have been better off losing the sale than making the sale and incurring the wrath of someone who appears to not wanting to be pleased or happy with their purchase. I am not saying that is the case here or even implying it. I am making a general statement about a small percentage of customers with whom I have had to deal and I'm sure others have experienced it too.

Finally,

Let's tone it down a bit.....I don't want to have to post Glenn Clabo's link to the Cumbya song. Please!:(

[Shiraz Balolia]

This thread was about whether an external sheet metal hood with a hole should aim left, right, or straight ahead. Personally I don't see this as an issue of innovation, rather one of design choice.


Scott - we will have to offer a left AND a right option to please the masses. Frankly, in the thousands of planers we have sold since changing from angled to straight hoods, we have hardly had any calls for angled hoods. Most people have unique mounting solutions to fit their circumstances.

[Keith Outten]

When my G0453Z 15" planer arrived I discovered the 4" dust port comes out straight over the front of the outfeed table. When I attach my flexible hose it slumps over the center of the outfeed table making it impossible to run stock through without someone or something support the hose above the table. Just a really poor design IMO. Here's the kicker: The owner's manual that came with my machine shows a headstock breakdown on page 49, including a dust port that clearly angles 45 degrees off center, which would allow the DC hose to fall off to the side of the outfeed table. This is the proper design and is similar to what Jet provides on their 15" planer. I called Grizzly tech support and they could not explain why the manual shows a 45 degree angled port while my machine arrived with a straight port.

I'm a big Grizzly fan and am generally pleased with the 4 machines I've purchased over the last 9 months. Still, you have to wonder how such an obviously poor design could be allowed to ship out their door, especially one so easily corrected. Someone somewhere messed up.

I'm heading up to my local Woodcraft store tomorrow to look for a 45 elbo that I can use to get the DC hose out of the way.

Scott,

I own a Grizzly 15" planer that I purchased probably 16 years ago that has the identical dust hood. I solved the challenge you are experiencing by attaching a 45 degree ell to the hood exhaust. As others have stated it might be considered the best tact to allow the end user to provide their own means of directing the connecting hose so it fits the location that the planner is installed. Through the years my planner has been used in multiple locations, I found it very easy to turn the 45 degree elbow to suit the direction I needed which is much better than being stuck with a permanent discharge direction.

One mans poor design may very well be another man's perfect solution.
.

[Keith Outten]

We have had to do way to much editing to this thread due to unsubstantiated statements made by those who seem to be unwilling to consider an alternate point of view. This is irresponsible behavior that will not be tolerated here. Rather than removing threads from public view we prefer to remove privileges from those who cannot be friendly or respect their peers point of view. If anyone here must make derogatory comments concerning a specific company or product you need to have facts to substantiate your statements not just an opinion in your pocket!
.

[Chip Lindley]

Back in the '80s I was estatic to have any sort of DC with the original 4-poster Rockwell 13" RC33. The cast iron hood exits straight out the back, and I was happy to live with it!

http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=139039&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1263950375

Most import 15" planers (20" too) have a base-mounted motor and top rollers for retrieving boards for another pass. Any upward EL attached to a center-exiting DC hood will be smack dab in the way! Exit to either side would be preferable. Make it reversible! Just like Delta's blow-molded plastic DC hood for their lunchbox planers. Flip either direction, and please twice as many people!

To paraphrase P.T. Barnum, "You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time."

[Mike Cruz]

Scott, my take on this is that if you just bought this (new), what was the advertised dust port? If what they show on the website when you look at/order the planer is a straight port, well, that is what you got. HOWEVER, if they have it pictured with a side port like what is in the manual, then I think Grizzly should send you one of the side port replacement parts. To me, it is that simple. I do see your point though, and that you want something that "looks" like it was supposed to be on there rather than a mod. But since you move the planer around, a mod that swivels when you move it around would, in my opinion, be your best solution.

On another note, while a 45 keeps the least resistance re: airflow, a 90 will take your flex pipe completely away from your outfeed area.

[Jeff Miller]

FIXT :D



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/GRIZZLY/Harley065.jpg?t=1276861617




JEFF:):)

[george wilson]

I was afraid that a 4" port might clog if I were planing a full width board. So,I adapted a 6" dust collector pipe,cut away the hood to fit it,and welded the 6" pipe on. My pipe from the collector does come down from overhead,so no problems. Everything goes right up the clear,flexible hose into the overhead pipe. Maybe overkill,but no problems. Actually,my 15" is a Bridgewood,but exactly the same unit.

I don't know if there ever is a problem with masses of wide chips jamming across the opening of a 4" port,but I do think that a sideways opening port would give the wide curls of chips a way to enter the 4" port from their edges,rather that from head on,if you see what I mean. We had problems at my old job with a planer jamming a lot while planing 12" wide wood. So much so that I had to put a door on the hood,so that I could reach in and clear jams. It had a 5" port that went straight in. The dust collector was 20 H.P.,but we were some distance from it. Cypress was the worst at jamming because it was so electrostatic that it would cling everywhere in the hood and pipes.

[scott vroom]

This thread has been very useful. I now understand why a manufacturer might chose to go with a straight hood (to avoid clogs for users that have less robust DC systems). Shiraz, a memo to your tech support staff on this would be useful; neither of the 2 gentlemen I spoke with provided this reasoning to me, nor had I considered it.

With respect to a fixed angled hood, the question was raised whether it should exit right or left. In my shop setup it wouldn't make any difference since I pull the planer out from the wall when in use, and I could just as easily attach my flex hose from either side. For those that have a fixed location for their planer it might be a big deal, particularly where a rigid wall mount DC system is used and where the planer must be oriented in one direction vs the other.

Several posters mentioned they use a vertical DC drop, however this may not be practical for mobile planers.

I'll be heading to Woodcraft today to purchase add on pieces to get my angled port. They salesman said it would require a ell and a coupling between the Griz port and the quick release coupling attached to my flex hose. This means I will have 3 slip connections at the port unless I glue or screw. Not an ideal solution but definately workable.

The ideal solution would be a factory installed hood that incorporates a swiveling port, enabling multi-direction DC connections. This would add cost to the machine and the manufacturers would have to determine whether the ROI would supports this.

Shiraz, I still like the idea of offering an angled port in the aftermarket as a catalog item. To your point, you'd have to offer right and left handed versions.

Thanks to all for your responses....very helpful.

[Michael Wildt]

As a customer I can understand the frustration. I belong to the group of people that tend to over research everything before purchasing 8-) I like to plan the install so for this case I would have prepared the electrical hook up as well as the dust collection.

I took a look at the product, what a nice piece of machinery, wouldn't mind one my self. Hmm, Santa when can I hand in my wish list. I also checked the available documentation.

Basic problem here is inconsistency. Pictures on the web does not show the dust shroud completely so it makes you guess on how it is done. One then goes to the manual, while nicely written it shows pictures with two different dust shrouds (straight type and side type), and the parts diagram shows the 'side type'.

Best way to avoid being disappointed is to call the vendor and ask what the machine comes with, but that may not always produce the answer.

Problem from the vendor side, is to keep every little detail in sync with what is shipped. It is a huge time consuming task, but definitely possible.

[Joe Chritz]

Considering the only time it is an issue is if one uses flex hose from a non-wall mount situation, I don't really have a problem only offering one option.

It is cheaper, easier and doesn't effect a (likely) vast majority of people.

When the price point needs to be kept down to be in a reasonable range for most people some sacrifices need to be made. I would rather that be in the form of a dust hood that needs adapters than some other cut that effects performance or isn't easily modifiable.

There may be market for an aftermarket or optional hood. Personally it is so easy to mod I wouldn't even look at one.

FYI, I have one of the planers and my DC comes in on a 45 from over head, soon to be changed to vertical since I keep wackin my head on the blast gate.

Joe

[Mike Cruz]

George, I'd LOVE to see how you did that! I have a Grizzly 20" and it has a 5" port. I have 6" duct run to the machine, reducer to 5", then 5" flex run to the port. I would love to get rid of the reducer an run 6" flex straight into the port. PLEAAAAAAAASE post some pics... Thanks!

[Paul Johnstone]

That would work if the planer was stationary. I move mine around my small shop.

I use a bungie cord. I have a few nails strategically placed in the rafters that the bungie cord from hang from (and support the DC hose) It works.

[Erik Christensen]

don't know how to weld - probably a good thing as I have read that sparks & sawdust do not play well together - but I did learn how to mold pvc from bill pentz's site.

so this is how i converted my 15" planer with a factory 4" dust hood to take a 6" dc pipe

[Leo Graywacz]

Did it improve pickup? Looks like the exact same casting as I have on my Jet 15".

[Erik Christensen]

Leo:

I don't have a way of answering that - never tried it with a real DC to the stock 4" hood pickup. I used it a few times when it first got delivered to make sure it turned on but it was connected to my shop vac and that was basically non-functional. Even a light pass on a test 2x4 would clog the dust hood. So I left it idle till I got my 5 hp dc built & connected with 6" to every tool.

I can say that with the current setup I can put things through that planer (has their carbide helix head) till it starts to bog down and never see a hit of chips on the outfeed - UNLESS i am an idiot and let my DC bin over-fill :D :D :D

not to hijack this thread but did the same for jointer & drum sander :) :)

[Leo Graywacz]

Apples to oranges, I have a straight knife machine. Thanks.

[Mike Cruz]

So, Erik, how much do you want to charge for forming one of those for me?

[Erik Christensen]

mike -

it is very easy to do. just wear a GOOD respirator with a carbon filter as PVC off-gasses some nasty stuff when heated & leather gloves. I used 6" light weight ASTM 2879 so it was very easy to shape.

use any high output heat source - i used an outdoor propane cooking burner, gas grill would work too - some use large torches like for sealing roofs. I make a plywood mold of the basic desired shape - heat the pipe till it starts to get soft & jam it over the mold - not hot enough to deform - put the heat back on - repeat till you get the pipe to the mold insertion dept you are shooting for - hold on mold till it cools - a nice mist from a hose speeds the cooling greatly.

take your new molded pipe end - cut to length & trim the end to get the fit you want.

I'd do it for ya but you really want to do it at the machine so you can test the mold rough & finished pipe so it can be re-heated if necessary.

from what i have seen of the general skill level of those who hang here I believe this is a simple process that anybody could do & get good results 1st time.

check out bill pentz's site - he has a much more detailed set of info & it was where I got the idea to try this

enjoy

[Mike Cruz]

I kinda knew/was afraid that would be your answer... ;)

I guess I'll have to give it a try. Unfortunately for me, schedule 40 is what is readily available here...without going and getting a 13' green S&D for more per foot than a 10' schedule 40. Plus, good or bad, I started with schedule 40, so I'll have to continue with it. Thanks for the info. I'll check out the site, too.

[george wilson]

Mike,I will have to get back into posting pictures. It's been so long I've probably forgotten how.

A thought: Why wouldn't it be possible for Grizzly to design a side discharging hood that can be mounted left or right. It's been some time since I had the hood off of my planer,but it seems to me that a piece of sheet metal with screw holes could be made that would screw onto the edge of the hood. The hood would have corresponding threaded holes for the screws to thread into. The piece of sheet metal would be 4 or 5" wide,or whatever it would take to span the gap from the hood to the machine.

I can't recall off hand if there is anything(like a bent flange),or whatever on the bottom of my hood to lock it into the machine. If there is,maybe it,too,could be detachable,and use the same set of threaded holes that the "spanner" piece used.

I can see that a one direction only hood would not fit everyone's shop.

What I did for my planer hood was to simply take a piece of ductwork that is about 8" or 10" long,and is made to slide inside the longer ductwork pipes to connect them.( I can't recall what this short piece is called,senior moment!!). I squeezed one end down oval and traced it against the rather floppy hood. Then,I cut away the 4" hood exhaust pipe,and trimmed it out to fit the 6" pipe. Then,it was tack welded onto the hood. Fit pretty well,since the thin metal of the hood could be bent to fill up any gaps. Doesn't look bad,either.

[Erik Christensen]

mike -

see if you can find a supply of 6" ASTM 2879 - it is MUCH thinner than even the green S&D and is white to match the sched 40. My pipes are all ASTM 2879 with sched 40 fittings and they work together with no problem.

I can get a 10' stick of ASTM 2879 for about 13$ but it took a bit of searching to find a local retailer - plumbing shops here don't carry it but irrigation suppliers do

[Paul Johnstone]

Did it improve pickup? Looks like the exact same casting as I have on my Jet 15".

This is a similiar experience, but not exact. Maybe it will help.

I had the Jet 13" planer/molder. It came with a 4" dust port, which seemed to be adequate, but I converted it to 6" (using a HVAC metal "funnel") It's hard to tell if that was really worthwhile to do, as the 4" hood always seemed to work well.

Now I have a 20" Jet planer with a spiral head. It came with a 5" opening. I ran my 6" ductwork to the planer and then reduced right at the opening.
It is working fine, so I am really hesitant to modify the hood.

Same with my 8" jointer. Came with a 4" opening, I changed it to a 6" opening. That was considerably less effort, so I don't regret it. Did I see a change in performance? I don't think so.

Ok, but here's another caveat.. if you plane really soft wood like basswood with straight knives and take deep passes, I've noticed that you can get long shavings which can clog things up. If you do a lot of this work, I think bigger ductwork is a good idea.. Even with 6" ductwork, I try to take light passes to avoid this problem.. But overall, I mostly plane/join oak and maple. I don't think planing/joining produces a lot of fine dust. But this is purely my opinion.. I am not sure that it's necessary to modify the port on a planer or jointer. I really respect Bill Penz's work, I am just questioning modding these machines, as it is a considerable amount of work.

Now modding a tablesaw, sander, etc for larger ductwork is DEFINITELY worthwhile.

Just my opinion/experience.. maybe it will help.

[george wilson]

Paul,those LONG SHAVINGS are exactly what I think the problem might be for a 4" opening. As I said,we had regular trouble at my old job with the planer clogging,even when planing 12" wide wood. Especially cypress,which gets so electrically charged that it sticks like crazy to everything. Out atmosphere was pretty dry. I had a 8" swing open door added to the dust hood on that planer. I just didn't want to wait and find out later that the 4" might be too small. I am sure a side discharging port would be better. The chips would hit the back of the hood,and exit the port parallel to it rather than crossways.

Now,with the very short chips made by a spiral head,I don't think a 4" would be any problem.

[Mike Cruz]

Scott, I was looking at another thread yesterday about a 20" Grizzly planer. The OP was asking about a couple of used planers and one that he linked to showed the side port that you THOUGHT you were supposed to be getting. I know your planer is a 15, not a 20, but when I called Grizzly, they had some of the side discharge dust ports available. I ordered one. Not positive it will fit, but it looked like it would. AND it was only about $25! You might want to call them to see if any are available for your 15".