Grizzly G1023RL or G690? Move the short rails or cut the long ones?

[Gene Waara]

I’ve been working with wood for 25+ years even putting myself through college while selling Craftsman Power Tools (back when the salesman were on commission and actually KNEW something about the tools). It’s now time to replace the TS I bought while working there those many years ago as I am REALLY tired of measuring the fence to the front and back of the blade for every cut and the blade bogging on thick material . Without starting a Unisaw vs. Grizzly or new vs. used debate, I have decided to order a Grizzly G1023RL or G690 before the summer sale ends (I want a riving knife).
My shop is about 320 SF with no possibility of expansion (finished lower level) so the saw will be on a mobile base and must have a fence shorter than 52”. However, I really want more than the 29 ½” rip capacity right of the blade that the G690 offers (26” on the G1023RL), preferably 34-36”. I know I can move the rails to the right and gain about 12 more inches of rip width. Looking at the pdf of the G690 manual, it appears the holes are predrilled so you can only mount the rail one way. So can I assume I would have to drill all new holes to change the rip capacity? If I drill new holes can I assume I can have any left/right combination of the total rip (12 + 29 ½)? If I sacrifice the 12” of left rip will I regret it? In all my years I can only remember needing the left rip a few times but what do others need it for?
Another option, though I know it is a sacrilege, is ordering the G691 (or G1023RLXZ) with the 52” rails and cutting them. This would give me more right rip capacity while saving the left rip capacity. There are a couple of threads on cutting rails so I know what is needed. However, I don’t want to add a support leg and extend the mobile base as I fear this would defeat the mobility I need. How wide can I make the wing and still have adequate support from the rails? Will there be a problem cutting the wing to accommodate the new rail width? Also, I’ll eventually rebuild the wing to hold a router plate and lift (again, to save space). How wide can I go without a leg support and still adequately support a router and lift or would I need to support the wing diagonally to the cabinet bottom?
Finally, what is the advantage of the G690 over the G1023RL (or vice-versa)? The prices are virtually identical. I know there are a few additional inches of rip width on the G690 but if I buy a long fence and cut it that advantage is eliminated. The G690 is also 28 lbs. heavier – better trunions? 4,300 rpm motor vs. 3,450 – good thing or bad? Anything else? WOW - this is a really long post but thanks for any and all advice!

[Van Huskey]

Welcome!

First, I would go ahead and cut the rails of the longer railed saw, you don't lose anything and get all you can use but no more. I would still put support legs on, they don't compromise mobility. Use the extension table to move it on the mobile base like a wheelbarrow (just a SLIGHT lifting of the rails to get the feet to slide), this is the method used to move a PM2000 with its built in mobile base.

No problem cutting the wing, though you may have to reinforce along the cut to replace the surface used to mount it to the TS wing.

To add a rounter just cut and rout a ledge in the wing to fit a router plate, rout and install a miter slot if you prefer one on a router table. Much better solution than the cast iron Grizzly that does not accept a plate. You would need legs for much of a cantilever at all BUT see above, you want legs anyway and there aren't any real negatives.

The 1023 and 690/1 both have some pros and cons, however if you want a saw before August you are going to be getting the 690/1, there have been no shipments of the redesigned 1023 yet and the last word someone posted from Griz was early August and backorders to be filled first. The actual timeline could be sooner or later but they have pushed this back more than once so far. If you are willing to wait then we can start the pro/con discussion.

[Joe Leigh]

Good questions.
Firstly there can be no real life comparisons between the 1023RL and the 690 because there hasn't been a single 1023RL delivered yet nor will there be for some time. On paper the 690 comes with a Leeson motor while the 1023 uses an import. Not sure how important that is to you.
As for how far to the right you can go before needing support, that answer is it depends. If you don't plan on an expansion table or router table you can probably get away with the 34-36 inches you mentioned. Every model table saw I shopped for included support legs on any saw over 30".

[Van Huskey]

On paper the 690 comes with a Leeson motor while the 1023 uses an import. ".

They kinda suckered me too, the Leeson is also an import from Taiwan. Not sure if this makes any real difference but an American made Baldor, Leeson or Marathon means something to me but it may be just mental, either way I dunno if the motor makes any difference as the one coming n the 1023 is the one they have used for years in the 1023 series.

[Gene Waara]

Quote: If you are willing to wait then we can start the pro/con discussion.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been a long time lurker and active on other WW forums but this one seems to have the most Grizzly experts. I'm really in no hurry. I'm a hobbist and want it for the winter months when I spend more time in my shop. I know the G1023RL is not yet available and the promise date has been moved once again. My comparison questions were more directed to the current 1023 since I assume the new saw will (hopefully) be as good or better thant the current 1023.

[Cary Falk]

I thought the major difference is the 1023 has a under table blade dust shroud thing. If I wansn't in a hurryI would be inclined to wait. I would buy the long rail. Set it up and use it and see if it really is too big. If you don't grow to love the extra length then cut it down.

[Van Huskey]

OK pro/con G0691 vs G1023RLX:

1. current price has the the 691 at a $145 advantage
2. weight is essentially the same
3. both require 220v 691 will run on a 20 amp circuit 1023 requires 30 amp
4. The 691 has an Asian Leeson more efficient motor 12.8A vs 18A for the Grizzly Asian motor, the 1023 uses a time tested motor the Leeson is new to the Grizzly line
5. The 1023 uses a more modern Poly V belt that should transmit less vibration than the triple V and be more efficient in power transfer
6. 1023 is listed as taking a 7/8" dado, 691 13/16"
7. 691 4300 rpm vs 4200rpm
8. 691 has a greater max depth of cut 3 1/8" vs 3" at 90*
9. 691 has greater left of blade 12" rip vs 8" 1023 has greater right of blade rip 52" vs 50
10. Table is essentially the same size
11. The fences are different and 690/1 owners have reported poor flatness of the fence on the 690/1 this hasn't been an issue in the past with 1023 versions
12. 691 made in China, Taiwan for the 1023
13. 1023 has a blade shroud for dust collection
14. 1023 has a bigger off switch
15. 691 has RIGHT (fixed after Jim caught my error) side DC port, in the rear for the 1023
16. 1023's "improved" blade guard MAY be better, but it is definately different
17. 1023's general design has been time tested and has always tested well in the bang for buck section of reviews, the 690/1 is doing the same in tests now


Thats the majority of the differences, some are open to debate as to which is better if either and some are just non-issues. I find it hard to understand why Grizzly didn't leave one saw at the bottom and give the other all the pros, instead they have 2 saws in almost the same price point. Assuming the 1023 is a resonable legacy to the 1023s of the past they will both be solid saws, no frills to be sure but the best priced of the no-frills saws as well. If I had to choose I would probably wait for the 1023 dust collection and the Poly V drive are big deals to me.

One caveat the longer you wait the more likely you are to end up with a PM, Delta, SS or maybe even a Euro slider. That assumes you hang around here during the wait time... :D

[Jim O'Dell]

Van, you nailed the comparison dead on...except for one thing. :D:D The dust port on the 690/1 is on the right side. To me, this was one of the biggest things they got right on this. How many people have their DC hook up come off the ceiling and to the left of their TS??? Or behind for that matter. Just creates the need for more elbows, and thus a loss of dust collection.
Gene, I wouldn't plan on cutting the factory table down. It has a support system of metal bracing under it. I also don't think it would support a router lift if you are so inclined to do that. If you want the router, for sure build your own extension and size the thickness properly to support the lift and and router you want to use.
I'm thinking about moving the rails on my 691 to the right. You can easily move one step, just shy of 7", and still get 2 bolts in the CI, one in the top, one in the right extension wing. Mark the CI table and drill, and easily add one more. Mark the angle iron for the front rail, and get a 4th. Move one more step to the right for another 7", and you can have 3 bolts in the CI.
I'm building a new torsion box extension to replace the damaged factory one. It is 49" long compared to the 35 to 37 the factory one is. It will allow me to move two steps if I decide to do that.
If you ever use the fence to the left of the blade (I never have even on my old Ridgid saw which I mounted a 36" Biese fence all the way to the right to get 50" rip capacity), cut down the 691 and have both sides. Jim.

[Van Huskey]

The dust port on the 690/1 is on the right side. .

Oops! Never got passed failing that left/right test in kindergarten!

[Gene Waara]

Wow - thanks for the great comparison/comments, guys. I have spent a lot of time reviewing specs but there are items mentioned that I missed. That's why I asked the experts! It is still possible a Uni will come along on Cl and I'll go that route and buy an aftermarket riv but the Griz will do all I'll ever need - as you mentioned, bang for the buck. I'll continue to watch posts for additional information and will have to spend even more time in the shop staring at the floor trying to find room for the 52" rails.

[Van Huskey]

[QUOTE=Gene Waara;1447783]That's why I asked the experts! QUOTE]

If there is a 690/1 expert in the world it is Jim. He probably knows as much as the guys building them! He probably also is the only person in the world that has done a ground up restoration of a saw that has only been out a few months. Further, he probably has the only G0690/1 that wood cut instead of the other way around... :D:D:D

[Jeff Miller]

Read this thread it's how I did mine

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127083



You could do it without making a router table out of the extension.



JEFF:)

[Jim O'Dell]

Van, if you're talking about the 690 that passed it's flying test before it's first session cutting wood.....well....errrr.....that wasn't me. :o I'm the one that saved pennies all last year to get mine. Although, I read through the owner's manual at least 3 times before purchasing the saw. OK, maybe more like 30 times. It made for really good reading when I was locked in this little room with no windows. :eek: I can't remember who did the rebuild, but I will still bow to him for who knows this saw the best. Jim.

[Aaron Wingert]

I took delivery of my G0691 yesterday and have nothing but good things to say about the saw from my first impressions during assembly. I hadn't put my hands on one in person, but trusted everything I read about this saw. I was pleasantly surprised by the overall quality of the saw and although I haven't got it ready to run just yet I'm just tickled with the purchase.

I'd opt for cutting the rails on a G0691, and plan on making your own downsized extension table from wood and melamine or whatever surface you want. The rails come with plastic insert caps that will cover up the cuts you make, if you make them cleanly.

[Ray Bell]

You may want to check with Grizzly before cutting rails, or installing a router in the extension table. I was going to install a router in my 691 table, and was told by two different CS folks that this would void the warranty for the saw. We kind of went round and round, as it just didn't, and still doesn't make sense to me. This has no effect on the table saw mechanism at all, but it states in the warranty agreement that any modifications will void the agreement.:confused:

[Van Huskey]

You may want to check with Grizzly before cutting rails, or installing a router in the extension table. I was going to install a router in my 691 table, and was told by two different CS folks that this would void the warranty for the saw. We kind of went round and round, as it just didn't, and still doesn't make sense to me. This has no effect on the table saw mechanism at all, but it states in the warranty agreement that any modifications will void the agreement.:confused:


Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: your modification must be directly responsible for the failure for them to legally deny coverage.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Note that even without the legs there really isn't significant sag. The reason you want legs is to avoid tipping the saw with that huge lever arm!

[Ray Bell]

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: your modification must be directly responsible for the failure for them to legally deny coverage.

Thank you, I wish I had known about this when I was talking to them.

[Gene Waara]

[QUOTE=Jeff Miller;1447798]Read this thread it's how I did mine

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127083


You could do it without making a router table out of the extension.




Beautiful work Jeff. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks to all for the great advice!

[scott vroom]

Gene, I moved my G0690 rails one hole to the right....added ~7" (now ~36.5"). It was easy, I drilled one hole on the cast iron....soft metal, easy to drill. I am very happy with this solution (I also have a small shop).