Extra-new turner question

[William Powell]

I picked up the HF 34706 yesterday. The one they told me on the phone they didn't stock in Little Rock. Those folks are a trip. I also picked up the 35444 tool set.
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-high-speed-steel-turning-set-35444.html
They didn't have the light colored handled ones.
This set includes-
3/8", 3/4", 1" spindle gouges
5/8" parting/bead tool
5/8" round nose scraper
1/2" and 1" skewed chisel
5/8" parting tool

Anyway, I have never turned before yesterday. So I am really new. So, let's assume I'm unemployed and shouldn't spend any more money as I may need it later for something as silly as food. I understand I should have a roughing gouge and at least 1 bowl gouge. So, I did rough out a fir blank with the 1" spindle gouge. Not having any idea of how it should go all I can say is it worked. Then I did some practice with the other tools.

Given the tool set above, which one should I use to rough out a spindle blank?

I know I will need an alum. oxide grinding wheel. Should I get 100 or 150 grit?

Before I go out in the shop and ruin something, can one sharpen with a belt sander instead of a grinder? If so, which grit, as I'm lead to believe the grits are not comparable?

Let's say I win some lottery money, anyone have experience with the Ben's Best tools Penn State sells? If so, what is your opinion of the tools? I ain't a fixin' to buy any Sorby stuff just yet.

Actually I'm funemployed right now but my severance package will end...

I feel like a kid with this new strange spinning thing.

Thanks
Bill

[Tim Rinehart]

I like your approach...just throw caution to the wind and give it a go as fast as you can!!
For roughing smaller stock while practicing, you can pretty much use any of the tools...but here's my caution to you...get someone hands on to work with you if at all possible to go over some basic lathe safety and how to best use some of the tools. There's alot of opportunity to get hurt if you don't know what to expect using some of these tools. There should be local clubs you can contact to find members in your area.

AAW has a listing of chapters, check this for locations that aren't too far away, and realize that some members may be closer to you than you realize. http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp#43

I would probably use the 1" spindle gouge (seems huge for spindle gouge...you have a picture?).

Most people seem to sharpen with 100/120 white aluminum oxide on slow speed grinder. Easiest to control and less abusive to tool.

Use belt grinder...sure, I've done it in a pinch, but takes alot of practice to 'hand grind', which isn't a bad thing to know with either grinder or belt sander. I would use a 100 grit, or finer, for touching up using a belt grinder.

[Cathy Schaewe]

That 1" spindle gouge, pictured on the right side of the tool set in the link you posted, is what I would use to rough out the spindle blank, if it was really rough (like square). If it was moderately round, I'd use the skew.

I'm looking to get rid of a couple of my ben's best tools, including a bowl gouge, since they simply don't compare with the Thompson tools. PM me if you're interested, and we can discuss.

[Bill Bulloch]

William, You can actually roughout spindles and bowls with a bowl gouge. I know a few turners that don't even own a roughing gouge. Get a 1/2" or 5/8" one for this purpose -- I would think the bigger the better.

If I had to I would probably use the larger of the spindle gouges to rough out a spindle blank, but DO NOT use it to try and rough out a bowl blank. You could break the tool or tool rest and end up hurting yourself. I am speaking from experience here.


Benjamine's Best are good tools. I started with them and after going through the sharperen "Learning Phase", I still have lots of tool left. I still use their spindle gouges, but have moved on to P&N bowl gouges for most of my bowl work.

I have the 60 and 120 White Grinding wheels. They work just fine. I have used the belt sander for the Skew, but that is all.

I lived in North Little Rock back when I was in the Air Force. I lived on Short 17th Street, down near the River.

[Thom Sturgill]

I started with the same tool set. Roughing with the 1" spindle gouge is fine. The Benjamin's Best tools are a good value, but of course are not a match for top of the line tools like Doug Thompson's.

I rarely use the parting tool in that set as I did not like that one. I ended up buying two others, both thinner. I also reground the pointed scraper as I never used it. I do use (and like) the German or European style spindle gouges even though I have since bought standard (English/American) spindle gouges (ones designed like the 3/8" gouge in that set). They work great on large coves.

While I use a grinding wheel, many turners do use sanders. IMHO the finer the grit the better the cutting edge. I think of the edge from a course wheel as a serrated blade as opposed to a finely sharpened chef's knife. You may want to invest in a slow speed 8" grinder and wolverine system before buying better gouges, or search the internet - there are several options for home-brew jigs.

Welcome to the Vortex!! (and the forum).

[John Keeton]

William, that is the better HF set of tools, but I am surprised that it doesn't include a roughing gouge, which would be ground straight across on the end. The cheaper set includes that instead of the 1" spindle gouge. I bought the cheaper set with my first lathe - the 34706 - and still use them.

Nonetheless, Tim is right - use the larger one for roughing. It would be a little easier if it were actually a roughing gouge!

DON'T use any of these tools for bowls! I have a few BB tools, and for the money, they are a good tool. I would not hesitate to buy the bowl gouges and roughing gouge from them.

[Cathy Schaewe]

John is right (of course). When I look closer, that 1" spindle gouge isn't straight across the top. I thought it was, on first glance. My bad!:o

[Tim Rinehart]

Followup and somewhat implied from others here. The BB tools are a good value, and alot of turners have started moving away from them as better tools come out and support their needs better, so keep on look for some deals in SMC classifieds and PM offers like Cathy offered.

My advice is to use these less expensive tools if you are hand-grinding especially, as they will do the job for you, and provide a nice sharp edge, but may not hold edge quite as long as some better steel, like in Thompsons tools, and others.

The concensus will typically be to sharpen using a Wolverine system, especially if you are using bowl gouges, and swept back spindle gouges. You can make your own if on a budget (I did for over a year), and get by, but I wish I had the variability plus consistency of the Wolverine to experiment on different grinds with. Lots of fairly recent topics in here dealing with sharpening, so may want to search on that topic.

Good luck and be sure keep us posted on some of your first pieces. Whether the pieces are really good or really bad, this forum will help you evaluate how you're doing and offer any advice you ask for.

[William Powell]

There is a club chapter that meets in Hot Springs. Probably 60-70 miles from my house. A little far.

I have found a beginner's class at our Arts Center. I may take that later this year if I can get in. It's limited to 4 students.

Good to know I chose the right tool to rough.:rolleyes:

I'm thinking these tools need sharpening now. I am used to an edge on chisels and these aren't that sharp. What would you compare the edge I'm looking for to?

The fir is probably not the best turning wood but I wanted to start on something soft. Quite a lot of fuzzies. I'll probably try YP next. I did pick up a small poplar blank at Lowes while I was getting some other stuff. I actually looked at the cutoffs to see if there was any free stuff for practice. Next I'll be scouring the neighborhood looking at tree limbs and such...carrying my chainsaw where ever I go...

I have read and watched videos online. I do think a good book might be useful. Any recommendations?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Well as far as DVD's Let's see if I'm the first to mention Bill Grumbines Turned Bowls made easy. Great stuff. He has 2. You can get both.

[William Powell]

I understand not to use spindle tools for bowls. But, I thought I could use the scraper to finish the inside and perhaps a couple of others for detailing the outside. Should I get that thought out of my mind?
Thanks

[David E Keller]

You can use the scraper to turn the entire bowl, but I'd work on a relatively small scale if you choose to do that. The large skew can be used flat on the tool rest as a scraper on the outside of the bowl... Very light touch.

The tools you bought will not be sharp on arrival, so sharpening them is in order.

Welcome to the vortex!

[John Hart]

Anyway, I have never turned before yesterday. So I am really new. So, let's assume I'm unemployed and shouldn't spend any more money as I may need it later for something as silly as food.....


I just want to say that I am so impressed that you bought a lathe and tools instead of food. ;)

Spoken like a true veteran, already hopelessly spinning to the extreme depths of the vortex. :)

I think I'll go have a shavings sandwich.

[William Powell]

I can grow food and do...

[Allen Neighbors]

William, welcome to the vortex... and it is a vortex... Sounds like you're off to a good start!! Hands on help is really close to being a necessity!!
You've got some good advice here...
I have a Delta two speed grinder, with an 80 grit for shaping and a 120 grit for touching up the edges of my bowl gouges.
As far as the belt sander is concerned, I have one that I use for all my spindle gouges, all my skews, my Vee Point, my 3 point (3 facets/1 point), and all my hand chisels.
It's one of those old Sears 6x48 belt sanders. I saw a modification online somewhere... I stood the belt verticle, and flipped the motor over to make the belt run in the opposite direction (up, and away from the tool edge). I then built a horizontal platform with spaced holes to hold a V-block at the right distance from the belt for the correct bevel angle. The holes are closer together nearer the belt. Then I marked certain ones for certain tools.
The second pic shows how I flipped the motor.
I use a 120 grit belt... and it lasts almost for ever... well, at least a year, anyway.

[John Keeton]

William, PM sent!

[Mike Peace]

I have the same HF set. Take your 1" spindle gouge and regrind it flat across and it will do fine as a roughing gouge until you decide you need better.

You can tell from the responses that if you ask 10 turners a question that you will get 10 different answers. Welcome to the vortex!

[bobby lynn]

William, I'm in England about 20 miles south of you. I'll help you if I can. Tried to send a PM with telephone # hope it went through.

[Jake Helmboldt]

William, everyon's comments so far have steered you in the right direction, but I'll chime in as well.

If you go with a wheel, I wouldn't go over 100 (unless you have a coarse and a fine wheel). For sharpening and reshaping that 150 would glaze really easily.

The belt sander is a great choice for sharpening. The only downside is you have to figure out how to make or modify a rest and/or gouge jig. But Sorby's sharpening system is essentially a belt sander with bells and whistles (i.e jigs and platforms). Klingspor sells a belt that is specifically intended for sharpening, so if you have a belt sander then look into making a jig and rest to work with it and save some food money. I have a grinder belt combo and use both.

Most people will go from sharpener to wood, but with a skew you should hone for best results. You can use a fine diamond hone or a stone. I find that a fine oilstone gives a really sharp edge that is retained well and only needs occaisional touch-ups.

Everyone likes Grumbines video, but I personally prefer Richard Raffan's Turning Wood for getting started. It covers bowls, platters, end-grain hollowing, and spindle work. I think it is a great resource for getting started, and there is a companion book as well which has a lot more details. You can buy both for less than $40 on Amazon. Money well spent in my opinion.

Welcome to a very slippery slope; you'll need to get a job, especially if you want to eat more than what you can grow.

[William Powell]

Oh, you folks and your jobs. We may be in Arkansas but we have advanced things like soup kitchens.;) Besides, I could sell my helicopter if it comes down to it.

I appreciate the input and will follow the advice. Also, thanks to Bobby for offering hands-on help. I'm going to take him up on that.

Bill

Joking about the helicopter.

[Barry Elder]

You should check in with the club that meets in Hot Springs as there may be members nearby who could mentor you. Makes the learning curve much easier! Welcome to the world of natural beauty!!!