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Steve Clarkson
06-15-2010, 12:37 PM
Someone asked me to make a die for cutting paper (which are usually made out of metal)......like a paper punch. Is there any way to make one?

Doug Griffith
06-15-2010, 1:12 PM
I would guess they're requesting a steel rule die. The best ones I have purchased were all made from 3/4" ply that was cut using a laser. The blade was then bent and inserted into the kerf.

Dan Hintz
06-15-2010, 1:47 PM
Steve,

Unless it's a small die, you need to cut a pretty deep slot (with low kerf) into the plywood to hold the metal strip. I don't think this type of work is really suited to our lower-wattage systems.

Doug Griffith
06-15-2010, 1:58 PM
All the dies I've used had the carrier (plywood) cut all the way through and then reassembled. The thickness of the blade provides enough friction to hold it all together. This way the cutting pressure transfers through the blade to the die fixture and only uses the carrier for alignment.

Cutting the carriers in layers on our lesser powered systems wouldn't be difficult. The difficult part is the blade. Precision bending it is an art form.

Dan Hintz
06-15-2010, 2:07 PM
All the dies I've used had the carrier (plywood) cut all the way through and then reassembled. The thickness of the blade provides enough friction to hold it all together. This way the cutting pressure transfers through the blade to the die fixture and only uses the carrier for alignment.
Never knew that (never seen it)... interesting idea, though I assume this is for a die that's not very complicated (i.e., I wouldn't want to piece together a complicated design... "Damn, where'd piece 143a go?!").

Doug Griffith
06-15-2010, 2:33 PM
Here is a well used punch for a 3rd generation iPod hard shell skin. It has spring loaded brass inserts that eject the plugs. It also has 2 threaded inserts and 2 dowel locaters that hold/align it in the fixture.

Steve Clarkson
06-16-2010, 9:02 AM
Here is a well used punch for a 3rd generation iPod hard shell skin. It has spring loaded brass inserts that eject the plugs. It also has 2 threaded inserts and 2 dowel locaters that hold/align it in the fixture.

Thanks Doug........you do make some very interesting things!

Doug Griffith
06-16-2010, 10:52 AM
They do get pretty interesting at times. Right now I'm engineering a line of vaporizers. The first one has about 15 injection molded parts with the housing being shaped like an organic gun grip. The customer provided a clay model which I'll make sure all the components fit inside. Then I'll add laser cut pieces (representing the membrane switch and battery cover) at the top and bottom and blend in. Then cast as resin, cleanup, scan as a mesh, smooth, and convert to parametric data that I can bring into Cobalt. I'll then rapid prototype a working model for the customer to "experiment" with. All this in 10 days.

In the steel rule die photo (bottom-side), you can see where the rectangle was tabbed at the top. The blade has a half-circle notch at that point.

John Barton
06-18-2010, 4:42 AM
I am having some leather cutting dies made right now. The factory that is doing them makes dies all day for cutting the take-out boxes.

They have a laser the size of a small apartment - they cut the paths into 1" pressure treated plywood.

Then they use a computer assisted bending machine to bend the steel using the same pattern. Then they insert the steel in manually and have a manual bending machine to fine tune any sections that need a little more tweaking.

It's all very neat. I think that we can also make our own simple dies this way. All I need is the manual machine for the bending as most of our stuff is not complicated.

Michael Oswald
06-18-2010, 9:39 PM
I work for a steel rule die shop, if you need a die, let me know. Our lasers can not cut the kerf right. You need a .028" wide kerf top and botton to insert the steel in to. Smaller lasers around 500W or some CNC mills can do this, but not laser/engravers.

If you need more info let me know or PM me.

Richard Rumancik
06-18-2010, 11:24 PM
You can cut a dieboard with a 30 watt if you cut it in layers and bond. The dowel pins were used to align the layers for bonding. It was cut in 4 layers of baltic birch. It obviously takes longer and requires some careful work, but it is possible. You still need to find someone to bend and install the rules.

I recall a company promoting a system where the dieboard was done on a CNC router. In that case, the dieboard was done in two halves with a tapered bit. The two halves were glued together so that the enlarged end of the cuts touched, so the top and bottom of the slot measured .028" to support the rule. This was what inspired me to develop my method.

You need to develop a stategy to handle the bridges. I left bridges in two layers, and cut through in the other two. In that case, dowel pins are advisable on the center section as well. The dowel pins can be pressed out when the bond is cured.

This one was done on a Mercury. One dieboard was sawed in half to show the cross section.

Michael Oswald
06-19-2010, 10:51 AM
That is a nice system Richard, a lot of work but very cool you are able to make it work.

At the same time, a die shop can cut most jobs in 2 minutes on a 2000W machine, cost $4-7 max per sq ft and roughly $10-$15 for the lasering, depending on the number of inches.

Let me know if there is anything you may need professionally cut down the road. Thanks.

Richard Rumancik
06-19-2010, 3:52 PM
Thanks for the offer; I'll keep it in mind. Do you also install rules as well? That's the problem I face as I can't install rules. It's difficult for me to sell this as a product, as anybody I talked to wants the die complete and I don't intend to get into the knifing.

How does your shop price the bending and installation of the rules?

I never really took this very far other than prove to myself that it could be done.

Michael Oswald
06-19-2010, 4:31 PM
We do install the rule in all dies, but, we do not send rule prebent for you to install in your board. Problem is if the rule and board are not the "exact" same, you will have a gap in the rule or a tight rule (if this is a radius corner shape)

Steel rules can be made to +/- .005 so they are very accurate when done correctly.

Also, since you are taking several lasered boards using pins to register, this not ideal for the rule to stay/hold into the board. Basically the kerf is not cut straight up and down in dieboard. You really want a reverse hour-glass appearence where only top and bottom plys are actually gripping the rule.

The CNC routers that cut dieboard in 2 boards and then glue together are ok, they get the job done but are not very practically.

Basically as a minimum charge, $20 for the lasering and board, $20 for the rule and installing of the rule for just a small 1 up shape. You need to wiegh out is what your doing time/materials worth $20?

I give you mad respect though for getting this done the way you did on a 30W machine. Just don't know where you go from here to sell as a product.