1 hp motor problem

[James Morton]

I have a reliant 6" jointer with a 1hp motor. It was set up for 110V when I bought it new about 8 or 9 years ago. I put 220 in my garage, so I rewired the motor to run on 220. Everything was fine until we moved and it sat for a year or so. My new garage didnt have 220, so I rewired it for 110v. Since then, the motor starts a little slow, then bogs down pretty easily when feeding stock, even on a very light cut. So I ran a 220 line to my garage, switched the jointer back over to 220, and turned on the machine to a horrific sound that could best be described as something that was getting ready to blow up. I checked my wiring and tried again, same deal. So i wired it back to 110 and its back to the slow startup and bogging down. Does anyone have any ideas what it could be? I was thinking capacitor but it does start and Im not sure that explains the bogging problem. Harbor freight has a 1.5 hp motor that would work, but if its something simple, I would just as soon fix it myself. My table saw and bandsaw are running fine on the new 220 line.

Thanks

[Ralph Barhorst]

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like it is just not wired correctly. On 110V it probably is only running on one of the two 110V windings causing the slow startup or the motor could be connected for 220V and only 110V is being applied to it. On 220V it is also probably running with the motor connected for 110V causing the motor to go crazy.

Carefully check the connection diagram on the motor.

It would be helpful if you could post a picture of the motor nameplate or give me the model number of the motor.

[Willard Foster]

Are there any spade connectors crimped onto the end of the wires? If so. there may be a bad connection that affects the 110 and 220 operation.

Do you have other motors that work fine in your garage?

I am unable to run tools (such as a bandsaw) from my garage because thewiring is too small and to far from the circuit breaker.

Bill

[James Morton]

Thanks guys for the responses. Im out of town for a few days and wont be able to get back to the machine until thursday. However, i remember that the motor says made in taiwan and I do not recall a model number, other than its a 1hp induction motor. Both my table saw and band saw have gone from 110 (when I bought them) to 220 to 110 (when I moved to my new garage) then back to 220 with no problems. When I get back, Ill doublecheck all the connectors to make sure nothing is loose or touching another wire. I hope its something simple. New small HP motors arent all that expensive, but I do have better things to spend money on...

Thanks again

[Chip Lindley]

I'm with Ralph. It is easy to connect the wrong numbered wires when changing from 115v to 230v and back again. The connection between eyes and brain can play tricks, standing on one's head in a confined space!

I had the same symptoms as you, with a real nice Rockwell 1.5hp TEFC motor bought off eBay. I checked my connections a second time, with same bad results, and was ready to complain to the seller!!! Next day (when I was fresh) I re-traced every connection and found I had two wires transposed!!! When I wire-nutted the correct wires, the motor Hummmms as it's supposed to on 230V.

[Curt Harms]

I'm with Ralph. It is easy to connect the wrong numbered wires when changing from 115v to 230v and back again. The connection between eyes and brain can play tricks, standing on one's head in a confined space!

I had the same symptoms as you, with a real nice Rockwell 1.5hp TEFC motor bought off eBay. I checked my connections a second time, with same bad results, and was ready to complain to the seller!!! Next day (when I was fresh) I re-traced every connection and found I had two wires transposed!!! When I wire-nutted the correct wires, the motor Hummmms as it's supposed to on 230V.

It's just annoying to go back to some work I did previously and ask "now why did I do that?"

[Chip Lindley]

I used to have a sign in my shop:

"Those Of You Who Think You Know Everything Are Very Annoying To Those Of Us Who Do!"

I took it down because now I can't Remember Everything I Know!! At the least, Instant Recall is long gone!

[James Morton]

Redid the connections to make it 220 again to try it in case I messed some connections up earlier. Turned it on to that awful sound and it blew the breaker. Only tried running for about 2 seconds before it blew. I took the cover off the capacitor and it was hot, considering it only ran for 2 seconds before popping the breaker.

Heres what I am working with...

http://usera.ImageCave.com/drewmorton/DSC01664.JPG

http://usera.ImageCave.com/drewmorton/DSC01663.JPG

http://usera.ImageCave.com/drewmorton/DSC01662.JPG

Could it be the capacitor? it will start the motor (though it does start slowly), but it boggs down bad when feeding stock.

[Jerry Marcantel]

When the motor is winding down, did it have an audible click when it's almost wound down? If it did, pull the back end of the motor off, look for points where several wires connect on the piece of flat round fiberglass. If you see points, see if you can seperate them by pushing or pulling on them.... If they don't, and your capacitor is good, that's your problem.... Seperate them, dress the points like you would on an old car, using a thin file, put the back back on the motor and see if it starts. If it just hums, it might be your capacitor. I know you know Eggsakilly what I'm describing, so I have faith in you with this little problem......Jerry (in Tucson)

[Chip Lindley]

What Jerry said. If all connections are correct, a faulty start winding *switch* can blow the breaker as you discribe. Unless the capacitor is melted or exploded, doubtful that it is bad yet.

(Some disassembly required, but worth it!) Once you have the fan-end of your motor disassembled, check that the centrifugal switch slides up and down the shaft under spring tension. You will see how the contacts on the plastic sleeve fly outward to break contact as the motor revs to full speed. Long-term use can cause arcing, and allow these contacts to weld to the other half on the motor. The sleeve may only be stuck, and not free to slide. IF, for either reason, these start-winding contacts are stuck together, the motor keeps running with the start winding engaged, draws excess amperage, and blows the breaker.

Do as Jerry suggested, and dress the contacts with a fine file. Clean off the shaft with rag moistened with mineral spirits. When dry, a shot of dry lubricant such as Teflon on the shaft where the plastic contact sleeve slides, may keep things sliding nicely. Never use an oily lube (WD40) inside the motor, as it may only cause more problems. Operate the sleeve several times to see that it slides freely up and down the shaft before closing up the motor.

Re-assemble, and try your motor again. There's a good chance it will run as intended now! Good Luck.

[James Morton]

jerry and chip, thanks. The centrifigal switch seems to be operating correctly. I do hear the click when the motor is winding down. I took it apart to here:

http://usera.ImageCave.com/drewmorton/DSC01665.JPG

Moved the switch up and down a few times and it moves freely:

http://usera.ImageCave.com/drewmorton/DSC01666.JPG

I reassembled and tried it again. It blew the circuit again. I checked the capacitor and it was very hot considering the motor only ran for a second or two before popping the breaker. Do I need to go further into the motor than this? I guess thats my next step...I cant break it any more than its already broken...

[Chip Lindley]

James, looks like the centrifugal switch is working properly.

Next step is to try a different capacitor. If you have another 1hp motor around, you could swap caps. to test on your motor. Otherwise, buying a cap. from a motor shop or electronics supply won't be much of a financial blow. Take the cap with you so they can match the mfd. value and voltage. Use a screwdriver to short the two terminals on the cap. so nobody will get a nasty discharge jolt. Make sure the new cap. is same size and will fit inside the metal cover on your motor.

[Norman Hitt]

How about the Bearings? Will the motor turn freely by hand with no roughness in the bearings or binding?

[James Morton]

Norman,

Yes, the motor turns freely and smoothly. No odd sounds that would lead me to beleive the bearing are bad. I can spin it by hand and it makes a couple of revolutions.

Chip,

Ill take the capacitor and head to a motor shop. Thanks for your help everyone.

[Jerry Marcantel]

James, I would replace the capacitor if you are absolutly sure you have all the wires in the proper order???........ Jerry

[James Morton]

Jerry, I am as sure as I can be that the wires are in the right order. But, I am going to check once moer to be sure before I go out and get the capacitor. Wouldnt be the first time I thought I did it one way only to find out upon further inspection that I didnt. Thanks for your help.

[Don Jarvie]

Jim,

I just redid my Relient jointer and the motor had each wire with a loop on the end and you had to remove the screw and put the different wires together and screw them down.

You may want to cut off the loops on the end, strip the ends and them tie them together. This may help if the wires aren't sitting right in the holder.

It may be worth a shot. I had no issue changing my motor from 110 to 22o and mine had sat for 8 years.

If all else fails post a WTB in the classifieds. Someone must have a spare 1hp around.

[James Morton]

I have a tractor supply nearby that sells 1hp motors, I may get one and fix this motor to use on my old model 10er shopsmith. The 1/2 horse motor on there is lacking when I use it as a lathe. Which was exactly one time. Im still trying to get good at the flatwork before I get going on the roundwork. But, it was fun watching those shavings fly!

Don, how do you like your reliant jointer? For the price, I am pretty happy with mine. (Until now). But, the fence is flat and the tables are flat and co-planar. Its not a DJ-20, but what the hell, I think i paid 300 bucks for it brand new. I get some snipe when edge jointing, but when face jointing I get no snipe at all. I think my technique is off, since it doesnt happen all the time.

[James Morton]

Ok, so the tractor supply motor is $199, but it looks good so I take it home. Hooked it up without putting it into the jointer to check it out, turned it on and it hums, and no lag. Unhooked it to put in in the jointer, and lo and behold, its too big to fit in the jointer cabinet. Argh!

Anyway, I checked the capacitor on the old motor, and if I am thinking this correctly, I think the capacitor is good, according to my multimeter. On ohms, it swings to zero ohms, then slowly drops to infinity. From what Ive read, this means its good. So, if my capacitor is good, my wiring was good, etc., and the motor still doesnt work, I have to think the only course of action with this motor is a motor shop for a rebuild. I think the grizzly motors would fit in my jointers base cabinet, so I have to call them monday to see what the dimensions of their 1hp motors are. The dimensions are not listed on their website.

Anyway, thanks for everyones help.

[Dave Beauchesne]

What Jerry said. If all connections are correct, a faulty start winding *switch* can blow the breaker as you discribe. Unless the capacitor is melted or exploded, doubtful that it is bad yet..

James - do what has been posted so far, but I have to disagree with Chip's attached quote. Capacitors do not have to be exploded or melted when failed. I am a 30 year + HVAC kinda guy and have seen all kinds of failed capacitors.

Get another capacitor to test what you have, or take it to a motor shop and have them bench test it if you are unsure.

JMHO

Dave Beauchesne

[David Cefai]

A failing capacitor could cause the symptoms described.

[James Morton]

hi guys,
Update...I took the capacitor to a motor shop. Although he didnt have one like it, he tested it for me and said its reading just fine. I came home and reinstalled the capacitor and doublechecked my wiring again. Flipped the switch and same results. I did not have the motor in the machine when i checked it, and I noticed some sparking or flashes of light coming from within the motor, my best guess is it is coming from when the "points" are. I took it apart again, took out the flat fiberglass piece that the "points" are under, tried dressing the points with some fine sandpaper, and reinstalled and used a dry lube on the shaft so the centrifigal switch would have some lube. Turned it on again and same deal. It must be something with these points, maybe they are not opening up or something. Anyway, the grizzly motor should fit, and it was cheaper than the tractor supply motor, so I ordered it. Ill take this motor to the motor shop for a proper diagnosis and maybe ill end up with a spare motor. Thanks for everyones input.

[Don Jarvie]

Jim,

The jointer isn't the greatest but it does its job. I tore it apart, repainted it and set it all back up. I still have to fine tune it.

My only issue was the set screws that hold the blades in. They round over very easy so I had to cut them out when I got a nick in the blade.

I got new ones from Jet and replace the blades. OWWM.com on the Wiki page has a few articles on setting up a jointer. Also, there is a bit on motor repairs. May be helpful.