Garage Cabinet Making

[Michael Parr]

I am about to start a project to install a bank of garage cabinets that are 6' high and 7' wide with 4 or 5 double wide doors to open. I have some questions and hope I can get some good advice:

Things I know I will be using: Kreg Pocket screws for joining and an EZ PBB to make all my cuts.

1. Should I go with Home Depot Plywood or, unfinished MDF or melamine finished MDF? I am concerned that the Plywood will warp easily since they are usually the cheapest cut. I would put down a better cut on the doors and end pieces. I have worked with MDF before but not on this large a project. Is there a concern that there is enough strength to hold all the garage or house overflow items? If both types are equal what should I be concerned with?

2. Should I go frame-less or framed faces? I like the look of face framed and it allows me to remove one 6' member from each cabinet (1 Box with 4 ... 3 sided add ons). If I go frame-less it looks like I have to have a piece of MDF for each door to attach to. Could I go with 1 piece and offset the hinges so I don't weaken the area.

3. Should I plan on gluing all the pocket hole edges? Will the screws be strong enough alone? I can also do a small dado to strengthen each joint? Should I consider doing all 3? Also if I use a stain or pain should I take care not to stain or paint were I plan on putting the glue down.

Any other help would be appreciated at this point since I have about 4 weeks tell I start and am doing research now.

[Von Bickley]

I would go with plywood. I don't use MDF or any other form of compressed cardboard or wood chips.

I would get plywood from my local lumberyard. I can get better plywood for about the same money or less.

For garage cabinets, I would go with paint.

I do like to use dado joints and glue on cabinets and shelves.

I prefer face frames on cabinets, but that's just a personal thing.

Have fun building your cabinets and post some pictures while you are building them. :):):)

[Eric DeSilva]

I am concerned that the Plywood will warp easily since they are usually the cheapest cut.

Don't worry about that--plywood from the BORG usually comes pre-warped. Great for building curved cabinets.

[Joe Chritz]

1. Should I go with Home Depot Plywood or, unfinished MDF or melamine finished MDF? I am concerned that the Plywood will warp easily since they are usually the cheapest cut. I would put down a better cut on the doors and end pieces. I have worked with MDF before but not on this large a project. Is there a concern that there is enough strength to hold all the garage or house overflow items? If both types are equal what should I be concerned with?

Look for HVPA graded plywood. I can find it at my local Menards but that is far from normal to get good plywood at home centers. Expect $50+ per sheet for 3/4 paint grade birch. If you hit a lumber yard B2 grade is perfect for painting. I actually like good melamine for carcass construction and wouldn't have any issue with it in garage cabinets. Be sure to do a separate toe kick to keep it from wicking moisture from the concrete.


2. Should I go frame-less or framed faces? I like the look of face framed and it allows me to remove one 6' member from each cabinet (1 Box with 4 ... 3 sided add ons). If I go frame-less it looks like I have to have a piece of MDF for each door to attach to. Could I go with 1 piece and offset the hinges so I don't weaken the area.

I like framed cabinets. Properly assembled and constructed either is plenty strong. There are millions of each out there. 99% of the cabs I build are FF construction. Euro boxes usually have individual boxes so there would be a piece for each door right next to each other.

3. Should I plan on gluing all the pocket hole edges? Will the screws be strong enough alone? I can also do a small dado to strengthen each joint? Should I consider doing all 3? Also if I use a stain or pain should I take care not to stain or paint were I plan on putting the glue down.

I glue all edges. Even melamine I glue with melamine glue. I don't use pocket screws to assemble cabs. I use #8 zip-r style screws butt jointed. Screws are covered with applied ends for exposed cabs. Not real practical for a garage cab. I would probably opt for pocket screws with a small cleat under the bottom. Probably not needed but you can get some heavy stuff in a garage cabinet
.
Any other help would be appreciated at this point since I have about 4 weeks tell I start and am doing research now.

Straight and square is the key to building any carcass construction.



Good luck

Joe

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have quit buying plywood from the local Borg. As stated, I can get better quality for the same price at several of the nearby lumberyards.

Like Von I use dados, glue, screws and paint.

[Michael Parr]

Well square and straight is why I went with a track system. I grew up with a table saw and my Dad always made me the holder and not the do-er. I like that I can make what lines I want and clamp the track saw on that line and get that exact cut. I also like how easy it is to square up cuts with a power bench from Eureka Zone.

Thanks on the input for the plywood. Now to start searching Santa Clara country for a good lumber yard unless someone close to me has found one.

A question on face frames: How wide should I make the frame. If I am using 3/4 Ply should I use double the width so there is about 3/8" on each side.

PS I am already converting to metric since I hate figuring what line it hits between the 3/8 and 7/16 line. It is easier to be 1/2 of a mm percise with a decent tape measure.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Don't worry about that--plywood from the BORG usually comes pre-warped. Great for building curved cabinets.

FINALLY! A use for BORG ply! ROTFLMAO

[Dave Cav]

Get a copy of Practical Shop Cabinets, http://www.tomclarkbooks.com/tomclarkbooks.com/Practical_Shop_Cabinets.html

Money well spent.

[mickey cassiba]

Don't worry about that--plywood from the BORG usually comes pre-warped. Great for building curved cabinets.
Shouldn't have publicly stated that...now they'll start selling it as "special" curved plywood. With "special" prices.
Mick

[Bob Carreiro]

Had a bunch of CDX leftover. Coupled it with 1x4 junk pine from the box stores (screwed and glued to CDX) and used some 2x materials for framing. It is 13' L X 11' H X 34" D and houses all I wanted stored.

The top panels ride in grooves and slide easily. A broom handle with a wooden "puck" fastened on one end (shown hanging in pics) opens and slides the upper panels to reveal their contents. The 7 foot high, hinged doors provide ample room, and have yet to be fitted with shelves. I plan to attach a clamp rack on the center under-wall and add small refer to the right for cold drinks on hot days in the shop.

good luck with your job, and happy WWing,
Bob

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Bob, that looks real nice. My home was built using metal studs ( what a pain) so I can't hang anything real heavy on the walls. The builder did put 1x strips between the metal studs for the kitchen cabinets but nowhere else. So your solution to storage eliminates that problem. Thanks! Alan

[Greg Scull]

Any other help would be appreciated at this point since I have about 4 weeks tell I start and am doing research now.

I have had some limited success searching craigslist for plywood. For a while there was a signmaker who was selling used sign boards 4x8 sheet of 1/2 or 3/4 MDO that was 10$ a sheet. I didn't have the cash when I saw it or I would have started building my cabinets already. Still waiting on him to re-post some more.

[Richard Dragin]

Floor to ceiling pantry built from BORG ply about two weeks ago. Built in so no boxes needed. I used pocket screws to build the face frame but finish nails and glue to attach the face frame to the cabinet. If I were building boxes I'd glue and nail or better yet a 7/16" crown stapler, that builds a solid case.

The ply was straight and has stayed that way. It's not birch although that's what the tag says. Looks more like something from the Philippines but very few voids. I shaped the edges to a 3/8" inset round over using a RAS with a cutter head from the 50's. It matches all the existing built-ins from that time period. I have since added the pulls.

If you can find better ply for the same price like others have said, than that is a better choice.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Pantry/IMG_0534.jpg

[Michael Parr]

Richard Those cabinets look great. That looks like what I want but I have to deal with the garage track and I want them about 6" wider then the current track (The same thickness as the old ones).

How did you make them without boxes? I have not seen any plans on something like that.

[Richard Dragin]

I built a base out of 2x6 and firing strips on the walls.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Pantry/Untitled.jpg

Box it out and add shelves, firing/ledger strips in back on the wall and and attached to the face frame in front.

Here is the face frame right before I glued and shot it on.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Pantry/pantry4.jpg

All the horizontal dividers and shelves where Melamine and had ledgers in back and pocket screws in front to the face frame. I ran the horizontals full and pieced in the verticals.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Pantry/pantry3.jpg

[Michael Parr]

Richard thanks for the pics. Im trying to think how to replicate this in the space I have and will keep it in mind.

[Glenn Vaughn]

Don't worry about that--plywood from the BORG usually comes pre-warped. Great for building curved cabinets.

I just got some from the local BORG 23/32" "cabinet grade" for $30 a sheet. No warping, one side clear and we have not found any voids. From South America - not from China.

[Michael Parr]

Glen I guess I would have to find something that is not from China then.

[Eric DeSilva]

I just got some from the local BORG 23/32" "cabinet grade" for $30 a sheet. No warping, one side clear and we have not found any voids. From South America - not from China.

I've just given up. My last attempt was buying a few sheets that had substantially more plys than the ordinary ones, it was not made in China, but I can't recall where it came from. It was 3/4" (minus a bit) and seemed relatively flat. Until I cut it into 1' wide strips for some utility shelves, then it twisted and warped. I also seem to recall being unpleasantly surprised by a bunch of voids. Since then I've been buying my plywood from a real wood supplier.

[Mark Fox]

Get a copy of Practical Shop Cabinets, http://www.tomclarkbooks.com/tomclar..._Cabinets.html


I agree with Dave, Waiting for my book as we speak.

Mark

[Greg Portland]

1. No HD, get some pre-finished plywood (preferably with a stain resistant surface). Melamine is OK if you want the absolute cheapest solution. Just be careful with the construction... particle board is not strong.

2. Offsetting the hinges is a standard practice for that style of hinge (versus double plywood). For cheap melamine cabinets I would avoid face frames (extra work, little benefit). For something with visible wood it becomes a personal preference.

3. Glue everything. Dado's are highly recommended if you're just brad nailing things together. With Kreg screws I don't feel that dadoing is necessary. If you paint then you don't have to worry about glue issues (assuming a decent primer).

Melamine + Kreg jig + glue + edge banding is a very quick way to slap some cabinets together. Having said that, Grizzly sells decent melamine cabinets at a good price (if you're looking for cheap storage and not a project).

[Paul Wolf]

Richard, I really like your pictures too. I'm planning on building some storage in the basement. I was planning on building boxes, but before I go down that route, was wondering what some of the pros and cons are of boxes vs. built-ins. Thanks.

Paul

[Ryan Hellmer]

I really like Bob's design with the CDX frame and panel construction. I have used the same concept. Used my rail and stile bits to make the frames (even for cabinet sides- think high end kitchens with raised panel ends) with 1/4" OSB for the panels. It really actually looks pretty nice and gives you straight and stable with minimal use of material. It makes extra sense for me as I can use all the random scraps from our sawmill for the R/S material. If you wanted to paint them it would really liberate the choice of materials. I've not liked the plywood I've gotten at BORG and HATE HATE HATE MDF, and particle board except in very limited applications (cabinets is not one, unless it's only for the laminate countertop). Good luck.

Ryan

[Mike Cooper]

Thanks on the input for the plywood. Now to start searching Santa Clara country for a good lumber yard unless someone close to me has found one.



Check out EarthSource on 7th St. in San Jose. Used to be PALS (Plywood and Lumber Supply). A little expensive, but very good quality.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

MDF SAGS. MDF SUCKS (paint, glue, the life out of the guy trying lift and to cut it), MDF is very very heavy but cannot support its own weight on spans much over 15", so support must come from the design, possibly a face frame or stiffeners. My opinion, stay away from MDF as much as possible for carcass construction. Coat it with melamine, same junk but white, no stronger though perhaps a touch more wear and 'casual' water resistant. You can get melamine on chip board that can at least hold its own weight, and possibly the weight of your stuff. No joy to work with (read VERY HEAVY WITH RAZOR SHARP EDGES) but more durable, as long as you keep it dry. Check with a supplier of cabinet grade sheet stock for REAL melamine products, because that stuff at the borg is not the bottom of the barrel, its the crap they put under the barrel to keep it off the ground. And you can almost forget the craig jig on both melamine and MDF. They really call for special screws like confirmats, pocket screws are marginal in MDF and chip board unless you want to pilot each hole...and that just takes too much time.

Most plywood is made with at least water resistant glue, which is nice in a garage. The garage always seems to me one step closer to the out doors than the rest of the house, and that can mean wet or at least humid. I am presently on a job using 4X8 sheets of Russian birch, 3/4", exterior grade glue, and this is fantastic stuff. Something like 13 plies, very thick face veneers, very stable, tough as nails, but holy cow expensive. Just north of $100 per sheet. So that is the other end of the price spectrum. I love prefinished maple too, but even C-3 is probably more than I would want to pay for garage storage. So what to do on a budget?

My thinking is check out the borg plywood. Buy one sheet (though not if from CHINA, in that case skip it) and try it out. Cut it up and see how it behaves for your application. I once ripped 35 sheets of borg "birch" faced poplar (made in chile?), $28 per sheet, into 2 1/2" strips for a customer, and it was OK. There was definitely some movement and twisting, but not as bad as some of the products I'd gotten there, and frankly good enough for the application. Would I build a custom kitchen from the stuff? No way buddy, bot for some junk catchers in the garage? Maybe just the thing. It might be easier to make FF cabs than frameless with lower quality plywood as the frames can help keep the plywood a bit straighter. Frameless really requires top quality sheet stock and very precise cuts.

I would also call a real local cabinet goods supplier and get a price on C-3 or shop grade birch or maple. Tell them what you want to make and see what they have and at what cost. Do not assume the borg is your only or best option. If your into this wood working thing it might be a good way to start a relationship with a quality supplier that can be rewarding going forward. The borg is very unlikely to ever evolve into a consistent provider of quality anything as far as wood workers are concerned.

[Jeremy Milam]

I built simple cabinets with HD 3/4 inch birch ply 2.5 years ago and they're doing fine.

I will say, it's got a melamine top to it. It's very heavy and I can't overstate how razor sharp the edges are, my father-in-law ended up with several stitches in his hand helping me get it home.

Jeremy

[Vijay Kumar]

Thanks on the input for the plywood. Now to start searching Santa Clara country for a good lumber yard unless someone close to me has found one.



I have purchased both from PALS and Macbeath both in San Jose. They carry pretty good quality sheet goods.

Vijay

[scott vroom]

[QUOTE=Michael Parr;1446143]Now to start searching Santa Clara country for a good lumber yard unless someone close to me has found one.

I can recommend Macbeths Hardwood in San Jose for quality plywood. You can get a sheet of domestic 3/4" C-2 hard maple (great for painting) for just under $50.