New Table Saw Logic and Age

[Larry Frank]

I currently have a Jet Xacta Table saw that has worked well. I am now looking at buying a Sawstop 3 HP professional cabinet saw. The jet is only about 6 years old and I will not get too much for it when I sell it. However, as I get older, I think that I would like something that has the built in safety factors.

A lot of this thought was based upon an almost accident with a chainsaw. I have used chainsaws for years without any near misses. I had been working a long time one day and it was hot and humid and I only had a little to do to finish up. I did not get cut or even very close but it was enough to stop and think about it. It was an Aha moment!! I did go out and buy a pair of chain saw chaps and promised myself that I would stop when I am getting tired in the future.

Now, back to the table saw. I can see a similar scenario with the table saw. It gets down to the costs. It will end up costing a couple grand by the time I sell my Jet and buy the Sawstop along with a dado cartridge and such. I expect that I will probably go through a couple of cartridges and blades over the years that I will have it.

Even though I have never had a close call with my table saws, I think that age and mother nature suggest that as I get older, the Sawstop would be a good investment.

What would you do?

As I wrote this, it became clearer. A Sawstop would save a finger and the cost to get one after I sell the Jet is around $2000. Why wouldn't I do this?

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I expect that I will probably go through a couple of cartridges and blades over the years that I will have it. If that's the case, what's going to protect you from your other tools?

If you seriously expect to stick your hand into a table saw blade several times, perhaps you need a new hobby?

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I know that there have to be about 35 threads containing 3000 individual posts on this topic. I know I have read most of them and contributed more than my own 2 cents. Not to be rude, but a quick use of the search function and you too can read hours worth of opinions on the topic.

[Mike Henderson]

If you have room for it, keep the jet and use it as a dado machine, or a crosscut with a sled. Use the SawStop for everything else.

I bought the SawStop PCS for the same reasons you mention and have never regretted it. It's a good machine without considering the brake, and the brake gives me some peace of mind that I won't maim my hand(s).

If you don't have room for two table saws, I would support selling the old saw and getting the SawStop.

Mike

[Larry Frank]

My comment about going through some cartidges and blades was aimed at the likely hood of having wet wood or something in the wood that would trigger the cartridge. In 30 years of using a table saw, I have not even come close to "sticking my finger" in a blade.

Yes, I have read almost all of the threads also. My thought was about getting one as get older and the added safety that it brings.

[Greg Peterson]

Larry - It's tough to put a price on peace of mind. Regardless, if the Sawstop is within your means I can think of no reason to not buy this saw.

I can understand having a spare blade and brake on hand just as a matter of eliminating down time.

At my relative young age of 46 I find that cuts and scrapes do not heal as quickly as they did twenty years ago. Recovering from a table saw accident at any age is difficult. There can be health/medication conditions that complicate the recovery from the kind of trauma a saw blade can inflict.

[Nathan Callender]

Have you considered one of the sliders? I think they provide some really good safety features, and as a bonus, I think they would make using a table saw much easier for sheet goods and such. Just another option I thought I would throw out. I know I would love to have one, but they are a little spendy. :-)

[Will Overton]

Larry,

I ordered the 1.75 hp PCS last week. Basically my reasoning was the same as yours. Aside from getting older, since I retired I spend more time in the shop and more time at the table saw.

I use my table saw primarily for ripping, so a slider would not be much help. Sheet goods I do comfortably with a track saw. The SawStop has about the same footprint as my zipcode saw which is going to my neighbor.

Although I have other tools in the shop that I could use to injure myself, I would not keep a second table saw in the shop. To me, that would be the same as turning the safety device off in the SawStop half the time.

[johnny means]

If that's the case, what's going to protect you from your other tools?

If you seriously expect to stick your hand into a table saw blade several times, perhaps you need a new hobby?

Why do people always bring up this faulty logic? The fact is if you are maimed in a wood shop the culprit will most likely be a tablesaw. In all my years of woodworking I have seen dozens of guys with serious permaneant injuries from tablesaws, one from a shaper, and one high teenager on a bandsaw. And before we get the "SS won't prevent kickback" post, let's admit that no one ever really get's more than a bad bruise from kickback, except the ones that cut off their fingers.

Larry, I'm 36 and the idea of spending the next 50 years of my life without fingers and my career scares the hell out of me. The first machine in my shop was a SS ICS. Hopefully, one day I can teach my son and daughter to use it without having to worry that they'll cripple themselves in their youth. My wife has exponentially better odds that I won't be her next patient in need of care.

None or all of these may apply to you, but you've obviously come up with your own reasons for wanting a SS. Let those who would deter you go cut there own digits off.

[Victor Robinson]

Being cognizant that our bodies and minds don't function exactly the same as we get older is important.

All that matters is that you have the peace of mind to work safely and confidently with the saw and get accomplished what you want to.

If, for you, that means working on a saw with safety technology, that's what you should do, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

[Ray DuBose]

I just recently went through some if the same things trying to decide to order a new Table Saw. I placed my order last week for a Euro Style Slider. It was down to it and a SawStop Pro.

How a Cabinet saw is operated is flawed in the fact that your pushing your hands into the blade, if you slip or something is kicked back your either in line to get hit or your hand is going to move into the blade. Euro Sliding Saws your standing next to the blade and pushing things past the blade from the side so if you slip there is nothing in front of you to dismember you, or if there is kickback you are standing to the side rather than in line for the wood to fly at you.

The Saw Stop Cartridge is a Great Bandaid for a Flawed Design Saw rather than just going with a better design in the first place.

Ray

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Larry, I'm glad to see that you're making safety part of your tool purchasing plan.

I'm with Nathan and Ray, I own a Euro slider (Hammer B3 Winner) and sold a General 650 to buy it.

The Euro sliders do have the safety aspect of being a sliding saw, as well the ability to handle sheet goods.

Sheet goods aren't a large portion of what I do, I mainly use solid wood, however as I get older, it's simply safer for me not to wrestle/balance sheet goods on a table saw.

Check out the Hammer K3, apparently it's at a great price in the USA right now. The short one ( 51 inches?) has the same sliding table as mine, it's great.

The other issue is a good riving knife, which the Hammer has, as well as a 3 position rip fence, which can be normal, low for bevels or ripping thin strips, and pulled back so it ends at the blade to reduce problems when cutting solid wood that may twist.

If you don't want a slider, a Saw Stop is the only cabinet saw I would consider purchasing.

Regards, Rod.

[Van Huskey]

First, I agree with Ray from a pure safety standpoint I think a slider stands out.

Second, the fact that you are talking about it answers your own question, and only one you can answer. You ask what we would do, I did something different, I bought a PM2000.

Third, I have yet to see anyone regret a Sawstop purchase, you will likely be the same.

[Tom Rick]

Same boat and I am considering a slider- One of these days I will get the time to question the slider guys on machine use.....

One other thought- after years of NEVER having a guard on a TS I am thinking it might not be such a bad ideal to get one on the saw. It just might keep a stray digit from wandering into the blade.

[Keith Albertson]

Larry,
I bought a Sawstop PCS when I felt like I had outgrown my Delta Contractor. I used that saw for 15 years, but was ready to take a step up to more power and better dust collection. The fact that my contractor had a miserable splitter that I had long since removed, and no riving knife or anti-kickback device may me concerned as well.

when I researched tablesaws, I was impressed with the fit and finish of the Sawstop. No one I spoke with regretted the money they spent. Since I've had my PCS I've been very happy witht he performance of the saw. My cuts are square. The saw doesn't bog down. Dust in the air and on the floor is basically non-existant. The riving knife is excellent. I love my saw.

Truthfully, I never researched sliders. I didn't really know that they existed for home hobbists, I thought they were production saws. If I did it again, I'd look at a slider, and that might make the choice harder.

As far as safety is concerned, you'll have to be the judge. I would buy the PCS even if it didn't have the safety brake. But I'm glad it does, "just in case." I'm an orthopaedist. I see people's "just in case" moments all to frequently.

I kept my contractor. In the end, I had 15 years of jigs and sleds built for it, and it will take time to make those for the sawstop. I occasionally use it for dados or things I have jugs built for, but mostly it is a flat, sturdy outfeed table. It would have cost more to make a new outfeed table than I would get selling the old saw on Craigs List.

[george wilson]

LOOK,if YOU think you could have an accident,invest in the Saw Stop. Someone mentioned medications. That is a real consideration. I know,I'm on them. You can get slower,and less careful as you age. I know that too. Go with your own instinct. You know yourself best.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Why do people always bring up this faulty logic?


It was in response to his thinking that he'd go through several sawstop cartridges. Wrong assumption on my part. Sorry.


......................................... And before we get the "SS won't prevent kickback" post, let's admit that no one ever really get's more than a bad bruise from kickback, except the ones that cut off their fingers.



I would have agreed with you, but a younger guy in our shop last year got a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of maple stuck about 4" into his stomach. Spent 3 days in the hospital with a bruised kidney.

[Derek Gilmer]

I would have agreed with you, but a younger guy in our shop last year got a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of maple stuck about 4" into his stomach. Spent 3 days in the hospital with a bruised kidney.
See, it is a bad bruise :D

[Peter Aeschliman]

Add me to the list of people who don't regret their Sawstop purchases.

The point about the slider is very valid too though. I don't regret my purchase, but I am left with the need for a better way to square up panels. Sliders do that in their sleep.

In terms of safety, the slider just as safe (well, maybe a little safer actually) than a Sawstop when using the sliding mechanism. But if you have to do a rip cut, which is when people are most likely to injure themselves, the SawStop has a major edge.

I have seen some posts where people talk about rip-cutting on sliders by using the sliding mechanism... so if there is a way to do that easily, then I guess a slider is in fact safer.

[Michael Parr]

Not to get too far off topic but have you looked at a track saw system. I love my Eureka Zone Power bench and can also use it as a router and clamping station. Personally I am afraid of table saws. I want to work alone and I want to spend less then 2000$. I did this and have had a lot of luck. I will use a system like this to make garage cabinets this summer.

PS My biggest problem is at 5'5" I can't handle a full sheet of plywood with any precision. Since I can set the wood down and leave it there tell its in a more manageable stage. When starting out I used the professional wood shop in the area and mis cut 3 out 4 sheets and had to re-square them after back to my track system. Next time I go and buy full sheets im cutting them in the parking lot so they will fit in the SUV with my track system.

[Jay Jolliffe]

I'm in the same boat as far as getting a saw stop because of an accident which wasn't really bad, but could of been worse. I'm looking at 3800.00 for the saw with a few extras.....How much is the hammer k3..compared to the saw stop

[Fred Belknap]

Larry I want to assure you that what you are thinking of doing is a very good idea. I will be 72 in a few months, and I don't feel old but there are things that I would do twenty or even ten years ago I don't feel as good about doing now. A minor accident when you are older is more life changing. Go for it, I may do the same one of these days. We can't live forever but live as much as you can while you can.:D:D

[Van Huskey]

I'm in the same boat as far as getting a saw stop because of an accident which wasn't really bad, but could of been worse. I'm looking at 3800.00 for the saw with a few extras.....How much is the hammer k3..compared to the saw stop

Right now the K3 is on sale starting at 2999.


http://www.feldergroupusa.com/

[Steve Bracken]

Hi Larry, I'm glad to see that you're making safety part of your tool purchasing plan.

I'm with Nathan and Ray, I own a Euro slider (Hammer B3 Winner) and sold a General 650 to buy it.

The Euro sliders do have the safety aspect of being a sliding saw, as well the ability to handle sheet goods.

Sheet goods aren't a large portion of what I do, I mainly use solid wood, however as I get older, it's simply safer for me not to wrestle/balance sheet goods on a table saw.

Check out the Hammer K3, apparently it's at a great price in the USA right now. The short one ( 51 inches?) has the same sliding table as mine, it's great.

The other issue is a good riving knife, which the Hammer has, as well as a 3 position rip fence, which can be normal, low for bevels or ripping thin strips, and pulled back so it ends at the blade to reduce problems when cutting solid wood that may twist.

If you don't want a slider, a Saw Stop is the only cabinet saw I would consider purchasing.

Regards, Rod.

I would second all of this!

The blade brake is decent in of itself, but a good riving knife is an absolute must.

My choice, if I had the $5000, would be a sliding table saw. Safety isn't added to these machines, safety is the design concept.

[Don Bullock]

If you have room for it, keep the jet and use it as a dado machine, or a crosscut with a sled. Use the SawStop for everything else.

I bought the SawStop PCS for the same reasons you mention and have never regretted it. It's a good machine without considering the brake, and the brake gives me some peace of mind that I won't maim my hand(s).

If you don't have room for two table saws, I would support selling the old saw and getting the SawStop.

Mike


I'm with Mike on this one except I need to add that my wife insisted that I buy a SawStop and found the resources so that we could "afford" one. Mine replaced a Craftsman that I bought in the '70s so it went when the SawStop arrived. Like Mike, I have never regretted the purchase of the SawStop, but if I had the additional funds necessary I might be tempted to sell it and buy a European style slider.

[Chip Lindley]

Anybody who is afraid of a given tool should never own or use one. Just as a horse senses an insecure rider, so do tools become skittish and unpredictable, at the hands of a nervous user.

For the moment, we have the freedom to make choices in these United States. It's Your Money! Use it any way you want.

[Steven Green]

I'm getting older myself, and I've had more than a few close calls with tools. What I have managed to learn is if you ask yourself that kind of question the answer is always already there for me. Whether it's saving time, money, or labor I'm usually better of taking the long laborious safe way.