Starting to hate antique dealers again

[george wilson]

I went to a few antique stores today,to try to find an old BODY casting for a Stanley plane. Only found complete,but real rusted ones for way too much money. Saw a #2 with a broken tote for $295.00. I'm no Stanley collector,but that seemed a bit high for condition,wasn't it? Rust+broken handle. I saw a pocket knife for $95.00 that I got 2 of from ebay for $10.00 and $15.00.

Then,there's the "it isn't old enough to be antique,but we'll make it an antique anyway." Generally junk I used to see in JUNK SHOPS when I was younger.

Then,there was the really beat up 100# anvil,chipped all over its edges for $350.00. Had been out in the weather for many years,too.

I'll probably get a gut full as I'm going to the big flea markets in Pa. soon.

[Matt Meiser]

Generally junk I used to see in JUNK SHOPS when I was younger.

Doesn't that mean that junk is antique now? :)

[George Sanders]

George, I seldom look in a dealers shop for the very reasons you describe. I had a great day today after a long dry spell. All my loot came from yard sales.

[Brian Greb]

"All that rust addz value don't it?
"And a broke handle addz cherictor right?"
"Sure shoot'n it'd rare look adit, it almost didn't make it this long."


Antique used to mean something... but now it seams to mean any old thing. With this new definition comes new rules on price... such as the more rusty and dusty something is the more value it has, "cause it must be old".

There is a lot of that happening around here in the local shops too.
I blame the pricing confusion on interior decorators, lack of knowledge, greed, and the new crop of gullible people that will pay top dollar for a rusty piece of junk. That's just how I see it I could be wrong.

[James Scheffler]

The other day in an antique shop there was a pretty rusty No. 80 cabinet scraper for $45. I was able to talk him down to $40, if I paid cash. :rolleyes: I put it down and politely told him it was more than I wanted to pay. I really didn't think it was worth more than $20 in that condition (and I know that many are found for less). But pretty much everything there seemed at least 50% higher than it was worth.

I know there are a zillion of those out there, so it shouldn't be hard to find one at a fair price. However, it was a little bit of a letdown because this place had a huge stock of old tools, with a lot in decent (user) condition. They must really cater to collectors at those prices, even though very few were in the sort of condition that I thought collectors would be after. They've been in business 20+ years, so it must be working out. I don't get it. :confused:

Jim S.

[Dale Sautter]

George, check for a PM for more info... in case it didn't go through: linky (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_nkw=Stanley+Handyman+plane&_trksid=p3286.c0.m301). Several under $20, and will work great for an infill.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a few castings with cracks that I would let go real cheap.
I have my best luck in some antique stores where there are multiple sellers. I think those may be antique mall stores.

I think one problem may be that people look at the highest price somebody with too much money paid for a mint Stanley plane and figure a rusty #4 from the 1980s will clean up and is worth just as much as the mint SW.

There are a few shops I do not go into because their prices are outlandish. There are a few that I try to stop in on every time I am in the area because they have some good prices.

I need to take a picture and show my gloat from a yard sale yesterday.

jim

[Roy Lindberry]

I have a few castings with cracks that I would let go real cheap.
I have my best luck in some antique stores where there are multiple sellers. I think those may be antique mall stores.

I think one problem may be that people look at the highest price somebody with too much money paid for a mint Stanley plane and figure a rusty #4 from the 1980s will clean up and is worth just as much as the mint SW.

There are a few shops I do not go into because their prices are outlandish. There are a few that I try to stop in on every time I am in the area because they have some good prices.

I need to take a picture and show my gloat from a yard sale yesterday.

jim

My dad took me down to Kalama a while back looking for hand tools. I guess he's found some really good deals there in the past, but we didn't find anything. Stopped by a bunch of antique shops in Centralia on the way home, but still no luck. Even so, I think things down your way are better pickins than up here in kitsap county (unless you're in the Longview in Eastern WA). Do you do a lot of tool hunting in those areas?

[george wilson]

I'm pretty sure that I will find a casting at the major flea markets I am going to attend. thank all of you for your interest. I'll let you know of any success in a few weeks.

[Jim Koepke]

My dad took me down to Kalama a while back looking for hand tools. I guess he's found some really good deals there in the past, but we didn't find anything. Stopped by a bunch of antique shops in Centralia on the way home, but still no luck. Even so, I think things down your way are better pickins than up here in kitsap county (unless you're in the Longview in Eastern WA). Do you do a lot of tool hunting in those areas?

The reason you didn't find any in Kalama is that I stop in there when ever I get the chance. There are a few shops to check. One of the guys has his prices on the high end. One shop does estate sales. The one at the south end of town on the east side of the street is the mall I like to check into the most as there is one guy that sells tools there and his stuff is always changing. There are a few people who have tools in their displays there, but the one guy has good prices and his stuff sells a lot.

I keep thinking Kalama would be a great place to have a tee shirt shop. It just seems a natural place for a Kalama Tee.

Unless one liked to bake Crumpets, then it could be Kalama Tea.

jim

[Tony Zaffuto]

George,

When you're saying the big fleas in PA, which are you speaking of?

T.

[James Taglienti]

I like antique malls and stores. It just depends where you go. I have found some good resale opportunities in the malls and stores in my area.

If a dealer is asking outrageous prices for things then I let them go. It is a little frustrating to see some of this stuff. The condition is not a factor to many of these people. I bought a type 9 #3 for $10 and it was immaculate. next to it was a type 15 #5 that was hideous, and they were asking $20. It's puzzling.

Also, dealers have to try and make money from what they bought. The Gold standard is "double your money."

Some stores sell things for 2 - 3 times the going rate on ebay. I usually try to leave a card or a phone number for those sellers, to let them know I have tools for sale :D

[Derek Cohen]

What so puzzling?

The antique stores are in the business of selling something that passes for antique. They are not selling tools. The buyers are not likely to be woodworkers but someone that wants an object d'art. Some are considered fashionable - witness the antique shop benches that end upin kitchens or hallways.

I seriously doubt that the antique store owners know anything about tools. If it is rusty or decrepid, so much the better .. it just looks more "antique". #1 and #2 look cute, so expect a high price. And look at the prices on the battered, useless woodies! Blades and wedges are optional.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Coloccia]

I went to a few antique stores today,to try to find an old BODY casting for a Stanley plane. Only found complete,but real rusted ones for way too much money. Saw a #2 with a broken tote for $295.00. I'm no Stanley collector,but that seemed a bit high for condition,wasn't it? Rust+broken handle. I saw a pocket knife for $95.00 that I got 2 of from ebay for $10.00 and $15.00.

Then,there's the "it isn't old enough to be antique,but we'll make it an antique anyway." Generally junk I used to see in JUNK SHOPS when I was younger.

Then,there was the really beat up 100# anvil,chipped all over its edges for $350.00. Had been out in the weather for many years,too.

I'll probably get a gut full as I'm going to the big flea markets in Pa. soon.

Uhm, sir, that's not "rust". That's a "patina". Oh, and that handle isn't broken. It was common for craftsman to modify their handles to suit their hands, this particular one having been modified for a gentleman missing several fingers. Really, sir, if you're going to shop for antiques, you should educate yourself a little bit so you don't seem so foolish. Perhaps tools aren't your thing. Might I interest you in this antique 8-track tape player? Only $250 and I'll throw in the Tom Jones cassette.

[Louis Reynolds]

I forget the name of their business, but we have a couple of guys that sell at the Silver Moon flea market here in central PA (Route 15, Lewisburg). Their prices are fair and they typically don't buy junk. They sell more than just woodworking tools. I got a beautiful bark spudder and full sized wood adz from them...$50 for the pair. They've come in handy more than once...

[george wilson]

I love it!!! Another thread for everyone to rant on!! I'll have to think up another touchy topic.:) really,though,it's truly aggravating.

[Roy Lindberry]

I went to a few antique stores today,to try to find an old BODY casting for a Stanley plane. Only found complete,but real rusted ones for way too much money. Saw a #2 with a broken tote for $295.00. I'm no Stanley collector,but that seemed a bit high for condition,wasn't it? Rust+broken handle. I saw a pocket knife for $95.00 that I got 2 of from ebay for $10.00 and $15.00.

Then,there's the "it isn't old enough to be antique,but we'll make it an antique anyway." Generally junk I used to see in JUNK SHOPS when I was younger.

Then,there was the really beat up 100# anvil,chipped all over its edges for $350.00. Had been out in the weather for many years,too.

I'll probably get a gut full as I'm going to the big flea markets in Pa. soon.

I was at one of the local consignment malls recently and there were a bunch of molding planes (mostly just bodies) for $40 a piece. What did this guy think he had? One of them was a body only and had obviously lost a fight with a fire....and the tag? $40. I recently purchased three molding planes on ebay for about$10 a piece including shipping, and two of them work well and are in great shape...the third, I'm still trying to figure out what it is/does.

Some people think old=valuable. Unfortunately, especially for users, to be valuable the thing generally needs to be all there and in decent condition. I might buy planes just for parts, but only if its a steal.

[Tom McMahon]

I don't know about you guys but my hobby is not supplying 100 year old tools to hobbyists for 3 cents on the dollar of what a new LN's costs.You forget that a dealer is paying rent on the space, advertising, all the time invested, etc, etc. Most knowedgable dealers are pricing stock at slightly above the ebay past sales price which is continuously declining. The not so knowledgeable tend towards twice what they payed. From experience nobody's getting rich in the antique business in todays economy.

[George Sanders]

I think a lot of the dealer stores with multiple booths contain items bought or priced at the peak a couple of years ago. They may have too much invested in them to reflect the current economy. That's one good thing about auctions, if the economy is down the prices usually reflect that.

[Harlan Barnhart]

I need to take a picture and show my gloat from a yard sale yesterday.

jim

Just callin' out Jim K. on this one. Makin' sure he's not goin' to slip away without pictures.

Peace,
Harlan B

[george wilson]

No,Tom,I don't forget that dealers are paying rent,etc.. We have a business ourselves,and though have a home location now,we paid rent in different commercial locations for several years.

There are plenty of cases of excessive bumping up what some items are worth out there,though. I knew a shop where this crook was selling Galle' lamp reproductions for $1650.00,when they could be had for $285.00 in Ebay(I bought 2).

I don't care if you are paying rent. That is just excessive. We have stayed in business for over 15 years by pricing our jewelry fairly,looking after customers properly,and immediately sending a new piece even before we get the old one back if anything ever breaks,or was somehow not what was ordered.

[Mark Wyatt]

I keep an eye on the auctions in the area when looking for tools. You can often get great deals, especially on things that need a little repair. Some auctioneers I know (and they know I will open an item at a decent price) and I can get what I would like put up for bid relatively quickly without waiting all day.

As with most things in life, patience also pays off.

[Tom McMahon]

George I agree there are crooks in the antique business but there are in most businesses. I've been involved in antiques in some way for many years and many of my closest friends are dealers. Most dealers I know are honest people just trying to make a little money. Many started as collectors and when thier own collection became too large they became dealers. Many of them know one area very well but know little about other areas, they make mistakes in their pricing, sometimes too high sometimes too low. I have worked one day a month in an antique mall for the past five years and never once has anybody walked up to the counter and said this item is priced to low I will give you this much extra. I was working the mall one day when a man walked up with a scrimshawed bone Intiut fish hook he said it came out of a box of bone knitting needles marked $3 each. I imediatley called the dealer knowing it was a mistake, he said give it to him it was my mistake. There are plenty of fair dealers selling for fair prices, some on this site. People search the antique malls and yard sales looking for the under priced things they can steal and then proudly post them on these forums as gloats.

[george wilson]

Nothing wrong with making a buck. It is capitalism. I know dealers too,who have become dealers to feed their own collections. Making a PROPER markup is honest.

Nothing wrong with getting a bargain either. It is really up to the professional seller to properly research his items. Note I said professional,not the little old lady at a yard sale.

[Bill Rusnak]

I went to a few antique stores today,to try to find an old BODY casting for a Stanley plane. Only found complete,but real rusted ones for way too much money. Saw a #2 with a broken tote for $295.00. I'm no Stanley collector,but that seemed a bit high for condition,wasn't it? Rust+broken handle. I saw a pocket knife for $95.00 that I got 2 of from ebay for $10.00 and $15.00.

Then,there's the "it isn't old enough to be antique,but we'll make it an antique anyway." Generally junk I used to see in JUNK SHOPS when I was younger.

Then,there was the really beat up 100# anvil,chipped all over its edges for $350.00. Had been out in the weather for many years,too.

I'll probably get a gut full as I'm going to the big flea markets in Pa. soon.

George, when are you coming up to PA and what areas will you be in?

Bill

[Trevor Walsh]

Usually I don't scoff at dealers or sellers at antique places, and if their prices are unreasonable I just walk away. One trip about a month ago to an open air flea market though, I broke these habits. I had been hunting for a tiny axe for roughing small turnings or spoons. I found a perfect one, rusty yes, nails in the eye to tighten it up. I ask the guy how much, he replies $100. I laughed, I was feeling fun that day so I asked why. He says "It's old American" There's no mark, I say How do you know? Says "Dunno, but it's rusty" I walked shaking my head.

For some reason I though guys sold here to make some cash, not drag piles of iron around and pay to park it someplace for a few hours. Maybe I'm a nut though, I'll hustle on down to my favorite dealer with $1 $3 and $5 piles with pretty good user stuff. Skipping him and the the dude yelling at me for taking a woodie spokeshave blade out, "Those are antiques, you shouldn't take them apart!" Damn I wanted to sharpen it too, but I guess that ruins the patina.

[john brenton]

Well it just comes to a point of bad business and ignorance on their part. Ever since that damned "antiques roadshow" came out everyone thinks their items are potentially priceless...which is fine...IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND ACCEPT THAT IT ISN'T!!

You get these sellers at your regular antique mall or swap meet with these unreasonable prices and you make a reasonable, if not GENEROUS offer and they act as if you just slapped them in the face. The next time you go to their booth...there the item sits. And the next time...there it is.

.
No,Tom,I don't forget that dealers are paying rent,etc.. We have a business ourselves,and though have a home location now,we paid rent in different commercial locations for several years.

There are plenty of cases of excessive bumping up what some items are worth out there,though. I knew a shop where this crook was selling Galle' lamp reproductions for $1650.00,when they could be had for $285.00 in Ebay(I bought 2).

I don't care if you are paying rent. That is just excessive. We have stayed in business for over 15 years by pricing our jewelry fairly,looking after customers properly,and immediately sending a new piece even before we get the old one back if anything ever breaks,or was somehow not what was ordered.

[David Weaver]

Seems all of the guys with "rare" and "unusual extremely rare" tools are now moving to ebay. There are so many BINs up there of really stupid things, like $200 #8s, $100 beat hatchets, and $135 carving gouges that it's annoying to set up searches. I keep a text file with all of the bum sellers in it and save searches to weed them out - it's a total waste to even have their tools show up in search results, and it's kind of a pain that peebay won't let you store skipped sellers in your profile so you never have to do that. It was a better tool shopping experience when they charged more for the BIN listings, which discouraged people from putting up sales where they're just looking for an easy mark.

The local guys here are pretty harmless, though they can be annoying. I don't mind when people don't mark their tools with prices when they are folks who have good prices - I understand that it's a pain to tag everything all the time. When it's people who don't mark their tools, only have a couple and then ask ridiculous prices, like $6 a pound for a rusty beat up anvil or such things, you wonder if they set the price to how the questioner is dressed. Got one of those in one of my recent trips, and I said "wow" when they guy said "$6 a pound cash" and then for giggles I asked him how much it weighed and he said "probably around 100" (you're selling it by the pound but don't know how much it weighs? I didn't say that, would've peed him off, just said "wow"). As I was walking away, the guy said "i didn't bring it here to give it away".

[Karl Andersson]

My dad's retirement job is owning an antiques shop down near George (Norfolk), but he doesn't "do" tools much because he doesn't know the values (so I don't have my own private supplier, damn it). That doesn't stop most of the dealers out there.

There was a huge shift in the type of people who were antiques dealers starting about the same time as eBay and American Roadshow. A majority of dealers used to be experts in specific types of antiques - my dad learned enough to teach dating early American furniture by tool marks, etc at local colleges. Now the majority rely on their price guides they keep in the car at the auction, searching for things that will make them rich selling out of their antiques mall booth.

A box of old "charming" patinated tools will sell pretty high at a dealer auction for a few reasons: 1) most "antiques" in the mall stores are aimed at women- tools are mostly a manly thing; if you have just one stinky old plane to make hubby pause and look, maybe you can sell those repro depression glass sherbert cups to his mate. 2) Rust looks really nice if it is oiled - add to it lightly-polished brass and it's acceptable for a den decoration. Some even use polyurethane varnish so they don't have to re-oil. 3) Wives, family, and friends of toolies will buy overpriced "antique" tools for them if they look ancient and give them at birthdays, christmas, etc. as a favor to us. And we have to accept them with joy, not letting on that there should be a blade in that "wood planer 18thc", or that a Handyman block plane in the box really is about as useful as the day it was made.

George, I assume you'll be coming through Maryland on your way to PA; I know where there was (a year ago) a barn full of tools with an ANTIQUES sign and an old farmer who apparently thought I was made of money - maybe you'd have better luck getting him to part with stuff. Cooper's tools, lots of Stanley planes and parts, barn augers, etc. There's also a Tuesday night junk auction at a fairgrounds that has yielded stuff occasionally...send me a PM for details.

[Bob Glenn]

I was in a large "antigue mall" last year and noticed three consquecutively numbered 20 dollar bills for sale for 120 dollars! :rolleyes: