Why do people mistreat their equipment?

[Mike Cruz]

Ok, so here I sit on a Friday night with nothing else to do, but rant. Boy, I’m becoming the cranky old man my wife says I am…
So, what is wrong with people? Why can’t people take care of their equipment? I don’t get it. I just don’t. How do you let $1,400 to $1,700 machines go to pot? (The respective prices of the two machines below…new.)

Recently, I’ve acquired a couple pieces of machinery; a Grizzly G1033 (20” planer) and a Delta DJ-20 (8” jointer). I can thank a fellow Creeker for the planer, but none of my comments apply to him because he never used the planer…he bought it used, and it sat in his garage until I got it. So, the condition of the planer was from its original owner. I got the jointer off CL, which, as it turns out, was a pawn shop “that acquired it from a friend who it sitting around in his shed….yada, yada, yada…”. Both units were shameful in different ways.
The planer had paint spattered, dripped, and sputtered on it, with some overspray to boot. And not just on the outside…on the bed, on the cutterhead (actually, to be more precise, in the knife groove of the cutterhead), on the rollers, as well as on the body. There were minor rust spots on the bed. And my brother and I tackled the adjustments…oh my G! EVERY adjustment that was possible (except for the chain that drives the sprockets) needed tuning. And not just a little, either. For anyone that has adjusted a planer, you will understand what I am about to explain, for others, you’ll get it, just follow along.

Measuring the bed relative to the upper assembly (where the feed rollers and cutterhead are) the front right post (1) was the frame of reference, so we’ll call that 0. Front right post (2) was .012” low. Grizzly’s specs allow for .016”, so this wasn’t so bad. Back left post (3) was .028” low. And back right post (4) was .048” low! There is NO WAY to have gotten a board even close to flat with those settings. We got them all to well within the allotted variance. They all ended up within .004, even post 2, it raised with the adjustment of the others. The chip breaker was set about ¼” above the cutterhead…no wonder why when I was trying the planer out before these adjustments, it seemed like more chips were on the bed than picked up by the DC. The bed rollers were at least a 1/16” higher than the bed! A recent thread about planer adjustments yielded a consensus that .002” higher than the bed worked best for most folks. I ended up getting them at .004.

The jointer. There is was so much paint splatter and overspray on this thing, I’m convinced it was used as a spray booth table. I did my best to get as much of the drips, splats, and fine droplets of paint off without chipping off the original paint. I gave up long before getting it all off because I realized that if I kept on going, I would have a rehab on my hands, and I just don’t have the time or patience for that right now…as if I would have it any other time… The bed was rusted. Lots of elbow grease, rust remover and a putty knife. That turned out as well as can be expected. Great, no. Perfect, no. It is obvious that it was “worked on”. But, as I’ve said in another post, the outfeed table ended up .0035 concave (well within specs) and the infeed table was even better. (Ha!, Van…another one!...or is that part of the same…I don’t know…) The motor was wired for 110, and when I rewired it for 220…man! I don’t know how that motor was turning, but it was NOT like the wiring diagram for 110. My rewire was successful (but wrong direction, then had to switch the black and red wires and presto, perfect). Now, I don’t expect everyone to clean their tools to the extent that I did when I got this, but c’mon, this thing looked like it was in a auto shop, caked with grease in the nooks, and there was no way to even get to some of the adjustments. The air compressor that I got off CL that came from a tire shop looked about the same. The blades had nicks so deep, that I’m not so sure that the blades can be resharpened. That led me to the decision that I could either get two new sets of blades (you have to have two, one for when the other set is out getting sharpened) or go with a Byrd head…guess which one I went for… So, that part of the tuning of the jointer was about changing out the cutterhead. {BTW, side note, I just saw a DJ-20 on CL today for $750 with a rusted bed, but the cabinet looked very clean…no Byrd head…I got mine for $400 with $329 for the Byrd…WOOHOO…Oh, Van, there’s another one!) Also, I found all sorts of plastics shavings in the jointer. I don't want to know what it was used for...
The bottom line, how, why, what on Earth are people thinking when they treat their machines like junk? I mean, yeah, these are Grizzly and Delta’s, not $3000+ machines, but still… Very nice, expensive (at least to my wallet) machines. I just don’t see how they get this abused.

I suppose I shouldn’t complain because I got such great deals on these because of the way they had been treated…

[Victor Robinson]

Because...

...they have lots of money...

...they don't care about taking care of their investments...

...they have other priorities or not enough time...

...they are lazy...

...they lose interest...

...they can't figure out what's wrong with the machine...

...they lost the energy to maintain their tools or became disabled...

...they are depressed...

...they really wanted to give a guy like you a good deal...

Shall I go on? :D

[mickey cassiba]

[QUOTE=Victor Robinson;1444337]Because...

...they have lots of money...

...they don't care about taking care of their investments...

...they have other priorities or not enough time...

...they are lazy...

...they lose interest...

...they can't figure out what's wrong with the machine...

...they lost the energy to maintain their tools or became disabled...

...they are depressed...

...they really wanted to give a guy like you a good deal...

Shall I go on? :D[/QUOTE
Priceless

[John Harden]

Too long. Didn't read. Care to post a Cliff Notes version of your rant? :o

[Steve Bracken]

Too long. Didn't read. Care to post a Cliff Notes version of your rant? :o

On the other hand .... lots of time to answer :D

To the OP .... The guys who, for a variety of reasons don't take care of things, provide us with all our Tool Gloats :)

[Tom Hintz]

I have to agree with you. too often I get email from guys who have obviously abused or neglected their tools yet in some of their minds it is the manufacturer rs fault for all of it. Another very common thing is the complaint that a $200 tool did not perform like the $1200 version or that the cheaper tool died early when the owner tried to force it to function like the more expensive model. Almost universally, they blame that on the manufacturer also.
The good news is that I get far more email from people looking to maintain or tune up their tools. There are plenty of tool abusers out there to be concerning but hearing from the ones that really want to take care of their investment helps me keep my focus on the good side of woodworking.

[Rick Potter]

Kinda like buying a boat, a motorcycle, or a sports car. They are either rode hard and put away wet, or they are babied. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

Rick Potter

[Neil Brooks]

Lots of us get enthusiastic about our new hobby.

In addition to that first, lengthy, and great response ... many people have medical woes befall them.

I've been out of town for two weeks, now. May be a five week trip. Medical stuff.

Eyes.

If all goes well, I'll be apologizing -- and making up for lost time -- to my shop.

If all doesn't go well ... my shop could slowly become a room full of neglected, rusting, withering, lonely, future tool gloats for ... somebody :(

Life ... happens.

Congrats on your new scores. A little love and time is usually all they need.

[Ray McCullie]

Hey, don't look at me. I'm doing a complete tear-down and rebuild of a PM54 (jointer) right now.

This thing must have been in somebody's barn and has changed hands at least three times before I got it. The mobile base sounded good but it's so rusted I might have to just junk it. And the chips, that thing had never been cleaned out. Every part I removed caused another shower of chips. The jointer is almost completely apart, except I can't figure out how to get the infeed table removed.

But I'm with you, why let a $900-$1200 dollar machine sit around outside and rust away. I mean at least coat it with machine oil or something for storage. Another thing that confuses me, why get a machine like that for "one project" and then turn around and sell it. How can you have a jointer and only need it for one project.

When I bought it the guy's wife asked me what project I needed it for, I wanted to lecture on the fundamentals of squaring stock but just said, "every project" and left it at that.

Guy has a PM tablesaw with a router table extension wing in it, rusting in place but I guess he still uses that. I felt sorry for it just sitting there. The top on that was really rusting too. Such a shame.

[Mike Cruz]

Cliff notes:

I've gotten some equipment, used, and they have been mistreated. Not $30 hand planes and $10 allen wrench sets. A $1400 planer and a $1700 jointer. Rust on beds, paint splattered all over. Just not treated with respect.

And I just don't get it!

[Mike Cruz]

Neil, thanks for that perspective. I suppose I hadn't thought of that. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that if you will no longer be able to work in your shop (please say it ain't so...that would be horrible), I would hope you would find good homes for your babies before they deteriorate. If you need to hold on to them for sentimental reasons, I would completely understand, but again, you'd likely still treat them with the respect they deserve.

[Tom Rick]

Honest use will wear out a tool over time.
Where does use become tool neglect depends on the user I suppose.
One thing I know is that production shops and working joes cannot afford to sit around buffing out the paint on tools- mostly there is not much paint left after a few years....

True story- I was yelled at for setting a jig saw down without a little ground cloth under it to protect the paint. Another guy laid into me for setting a crow bar on a job box of all things without minding the paint...!

All you can do is roll your eyes.

[Mike Cruz]

Tom, I certainly see your point. With use comes wear. But, from use does not come abuse and neglect. I worked in a shop for 5 years and no, we didn't buff paint and clean the machines any more than coating the cast iron tops with wax, and blowing the machines off with an air hose (and plenty of ventilation!). But that did, however, keep them looking nice.

[Will Overton]

There is a family near me who don't take care of anything they own. The builder landscaped the property, they let everything die. Both of their cars have dents and scratches from their kids. Both only have one working headlight. They buy furniture, destroy it and throw it away. They just don't care.

He is a trucker and has an old Peterbilt. He occasionally brings it home, to wax it. There is not a scratch on it, there is not a spec of dirt on it when he's done cleaning it, and you could eat off the floor of the cab.

It all boils down to priorities.

[Jeff Gunter]

The jointer may not have ever seen the inside of a woodshop. Many plastics can readily be shaped with woodworking tools -- delrin and soft stuff like that. I could imagine some custom metal shop where plastics are occasionally machined and end products painted. Could also explain the deep nicks -- somebody missed a taking out a little screw before shaving the edge of a piece of plastic down. This isn't to defend the condition of the machine; but it may have come from the wrong side of the tracks.

[Myk Rian]

Because...

...they have lots of money...

...they don't care about taking care of their investments...

...they have other priorities or not enough time...

...they are lazy...

...they lose interest...

...they can't figure out what's wrong with the machine...

...they lost the energy to maintain their tools or became disabled...

...they are depressed...

...they really wanted to give a guy like you a good deal...

Shall I go on? :D
You forgot one. They loaned it to a friend who abused it, and got it back so screwed up they said the heck with it.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Cliff notes:

I've gotten some equipment, used, and they have been mistreated. Not $30 hand planes and $10 allen wrench sets. A $1400 planer and a $1700 jointer. Rust on beds, paint splattered all over. Just not treated with respect.

And I just don't get it!

Large tools in a small, very busy shop. I can relate.

Paint spatters.... eh.
Electrical problems... brother-in-law trying to help keep an old machine running.
Rust... age. I use my tools daily and there's rust in a few spots.

Tools aren't my babies, and I'm not proud of them. Or my car. I'm proud of my kids and they also have paint spatters on them.
.

[Austin Grote]

I don`t care how anyone treats their machines, doesn`t affect me one bit. Not everyone (me included) worships their machines. When summer comes, I throw a furniture pad over my machines and don't uncover them until fall.

Paint splatters on a machine...The Horror.

[Neil Brooks]

I'm proud of my kids and they also have paint spatters on them.


LOL !

I love it !

[Mike Cruz]

Mitchell, I don't know about your tools, but I'm talking about rust on the bed/working surfaces, not the body. I understand that after 20 years you get dings and scratches that, in a humid environment, will cause some rust. With rusted working surfaces (beds and fences) your machinery simply won't be accurate. As anal as you can be about discussions, I hope that you direct some of that towards your equipment...

Austin, agreed, what someone else does with their stuff isn't any of my business, I just don understand how you don't respect your property...whether it is a car, your house, your tools, or your family. (No, your family isn't "property"...), but they are yours, as you are theirs. Note: I don't worship my tools, or anything else material for that matter, but I do appreciate them and have respect for them. Unless I got it for free, I had to earn the money to pay for them. So, in my mind, disrespecting the tool is disrespecting myself. You may not see it that way, but I do. And while you may not worship your tools, you have the common sense to cove the tools when you know you won't be using them for a while. So, I would say that my rant wouldn't have been aimed to you and your level of tool care.

And Mitchell, your kids SHOULD have paint splatter on them...shows they've been working and keeping productive! Unless your kids is one of the ones you see on America's Funniest Home Videos...then it is a kid rolling in a pool of spilled paint on the living room floor, rubbing it on his little brother's head...

And Mitchell, it is funny that you mention the word "proud". It seems to me that a major problem that I find with many people is a lack of pride...for themselves, their things, their country, etc. Wow, this is going to go to the Off Topic section... I'm not saying that you should walk into your shop and gaze at the glory of your metal, but having pride in them is not a bad thing. I think it leads to respect of themv and keeping them clean and running properly. I'm not talking about obsessing over them and polishing them every day, saying good night to them, leaving a light and the radio on so they don't get lonely...

[Aaron Berk]

I for one understand.


Paint splatters, thats the one that gets me. How in the world do you end up with the amount of paint you described? Thats abuse in my book.

[Mitchell Andrus]

And Mitchell, it is funny that you mention the word "proud". It seems to me that a major problem that I find with many people is a lack of pride...for themselves, their things, their country, etc. Wow, this is going to go to the Off Topic section... I'm not saying that you should walk into your shop and gaze at the glory of your metal, but having pride in them is not a bad thing. I think it leads to respect of themv and keeping them clean and running properly. I'm not talking about obsessing over them and polishing them every day, saying good night to them, leaving a light and the radio on so they don't get lonely...

Proud is an odd word. misused, it starts wars.

Someone looked at my car once, noted it was dirty and asked my if I wasn't proud of my car indicating that if I was proud of it, I'd wash it. I lit into him but good. No, I'm not proud of my car nor any of my stuff most of which was built by someone else. I'm proud of the things I've accomplished, like my kids' abilities to learn and to know the difference between 'pride' and 'respect' and 'care'.

I'm no more 'proud' of my table saw or car than I am of my garden hose or washing machine. Same things - tools. Just tools. The value of the items owned has no bearing.

If someone needs to be proud to defend against rust or defend their country, so be it. Like you said, it can lead to respect. I prefer 'care' or 'maintenance' in order to maintain usability. I am proud to be an American, but that's not why I'd fight to the death to defend her. "Proud" is the word that's most often used, but I think it's misused in the context of tools and 'things'.

Are we REALLY proud of our tools like we're proud to be Americans? I hope not, it trivializes the concept of patriotism. All too often in this country, pride is used as a weapon and a wedge, unfortunately.

Sorry for getting so philosophical. Just trying to define an abstract concept.... it isn't easy.
.

[Tom Rick]

Oh that's just me posting before enough coffee Mike...
You said rant and I figured I would give it a try!

[Mike Cruz]

You know, you have a point. I likened the word proud with pride. You are right, I am not proud of my tools, but I do take pride in them.

As for being proud of your children's ability to learn... There are two ways of thinking about that: 1) They are going to learn no matter what you do. It is the nature of the beast. Not that they will learn the right way, or to do the right thing, but they WILL learn. 2) The level of their learning can be, in great part, due to genetics. So, being proud of their ability to learn could be seen as a bit conceited. Not saying you are, just pointing out a view.

Don't get me wrong. I do understand the being proud of your children thing. I just know you like banter...:D

[Mitchell Andrus]

You know, you have a point. I likened the word proud with pride. You are right, I am not proud of my tools, but I do take pride in them.

As for being proud of your children's ability to learn... There are two ways of thinking about that: 1) They are going to learn no matter what you do. It is the nature of the beast. Not that they will learn the right way, or to do the right thing, but they WILL learn. 2) The level of their learning can be, in great part, due to genetics. So, being proud of their ability to learn could be seen as a bit conceited. Not saying you are, just pointing out a view.

Don't get me wrong. I do understand the being proud of your children thing. I just know you like banter...:D

I enjoy a good discussion.

I think you hit it though. I'm proud that I can afford any tool in the store, but I'm not proud of the tool.

Perfect!

So, getting back to the OP: Someone bought tools but wasn't proud of them, but might have been proud of the ability to own them.

OK?

That allows for paint spatters and rust on his possessions, but I'm sure he'd give you an argument if you said he wasn't proud to be able to buy them.
.

[Dave Lehnert]

Are we REALLY proud of our tools like we're proud to be Americans?
.

:confused: I' m proud of my American made Shopsmith and the employees I help keep working.

[Mitchell Andrus]

:confused: I' m proud of my American made Shopsmith and the employees I help keep working.

You didn't make the tool.... so what are you really being so proud about? Pride in owning the tool or pride in the abilities you've acquired that allow you to put it to good use?

I'm thinking the latter.
.

[Rick Fisher]

My biggest irk is soda can rings on cast iron.

[Mike Cruz]

Those aren't soda can rings. Anyone drinking soda is thinking clearly enough to not put them on a cast iron top. They MUST be beer rings. Likely those rings are 5th or 6th beer rings...:D

[johnny means]

Mike, I think what your missing is that you were buying someone else's junk. Hence the care they got. Remember the old adage,"One mans trash is another man's treasure." Something that you don't need or want doesn't warrant a whole lot of your attention.

[Jim Rimmer]

There is a family near me who don't take care of anything they own. The builder landscaped the property, they let everything die. Both of their cars have dents and scratches from their kids. Both only have one working headlight. They buy furniture, destroy it and throw it away. They just don't care.

He is a trucker and has an old Peterbilt. He occasionally brings it home, to wax it. There is not a scratch on it, there is not a spec of dirt on it when he's done cleaning it, and you could eat off the floor of the cab.

It all boils down to priorities.
I think you may have hit on it here. Without getting involved in Mitch's philosophical discussion, I wonder about people who don't take care of or maintain very expensive investments. (This could go to the pride issue but I think it's just common sense). I've seen many houses that are in dire need of just common maintenance - paint, replacement of rotten boards, cleaning, mowing, etc. Houses, cars, expensive tools - I don't understand why people don't take care of things they paid a lot of money to get.

[Callan Campbell]

Here's a few more-;)
Stupid is as stupid does?
I used the planer as a drop cloth cause it's big and stops the paint from getting all over the floor:p
I don't know what this long machine with the two big cast iron tables is called, but it sure grinds my plastic soda bottles up real nice so they don't take as much space in my trash can- That way you don't have to get off you butt and empty it as often:p:p
I hate the color of my tools, but it takes too long to repaint them. I'm gonna do it one paint splatter as a time. It looks more "artistic" that way too, hey look at me, I'm a dang artist now.....:p:p:p