Router table vs Shaper

[Joe Markovich]

Greetings All:

I am in the process of updating and reorganizing my shop. I am going to get much more involved in making cabinets and raised panel cabinet doors. I must have read a 1000 reviews and opinions on router table vs a shaper. One of my concerns is the overall size of the raised panel cutter for use on router table. I think a 3 inch diameter cutter of this type belongs on a shaper.

Well to finally get to the point; I need some serious opinions on router table or shaper as well as some recommendations on a specific model and brand names for both. This is the last step of my shop updates and I would like to move forward with this ASAP.

The more I read on the Internet, the more confused I get.
Thanks

[Joe Chritz]

There isn't a definitive answer.

If you are going to drop 800-1200 on a power feeder than get a shaper.

Shapers have a lot more power, allow a lot more options but the tooling is way more expensive. You do have the option of inset tooling which is really good stuff.

Router tables are cheaper overall but you are generally limited to hand feeding operations.

Raised panel shaper cutters are 5" plus. The stile and rail cutters start around 3".

Joe

[Jeff Duncan]

You've read 1000 reviews and opinions and yet you want more??? Seriously this one has been beat to death, not trying to be a jerk but really this poor horse has been beaten enough already;)
good luck,
JeffD

BTW the answer is both:D

[Stephen Cherry]

Making doors for a few sets of kitchen cabinets each year: router

going into production: shaper

Unless you just want the shaper, then get that. Sometimes you see them used for prices that are not much higher than a big router with table.

My advice, don't over think it. If you have a good sized variable speed router, go with that, and keep you eyes open for a shaper. Also, if you decide on the shaper, I would consider 3 HP plus.

[Jeff Monson]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=141142&highlight=router+shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=134401&highlight=router+shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127707&highlight=router+shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127169&highlight=router+shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14339

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26912

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54594

This has been beaten to death, if you need more links, use the search button.

[Derek Gilmer]

Get the shaper.

I've got a "3HP" router in a nice lift and have made a few raised panel doors.

And, I'm going to Springfield this weekend to Grizzly's tent sale to hunt for a good shaper, of the real 3 hp variety. Our preacher at church as a has grizzly 1.5 hp and a grizzly 3 hp shaper. After talking extensively with him I'm going with the 3 hp for my little shop.

[Tom Welch]

Shaper hands down. Some advise that I was given when I was in your shoes, was get the most HP you can. I have 3 shapers, 2 - 3 HP units and a 5 hp unit. Knowing what I know now, I would get a 5 hp unit, with a 1 1/4 spindle. Brand only depends on what you can afford and what features you want. (I have 2 deltas 3 hp and a 5 hp powermatic)
That said, however, the price right now on the Grizzly 3 hp shaper during their summer sale is a very good deal. However, this is a no frills shaper.
Don't forget the powerfeeder. It is almost a must have for safety.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Joe, I vote for the shaper if you're willing to spend the money on other items to make it worthwhile.

I'm on my second shaper now, it has a tilting spindle and a sliding table (Hammer B3 Winner).

I use my shaper for cutting tenons (sliding table is great), and I cut all my rebates on it (flawless).

I always use solid wood so I have a 40MM insert head that takes HSS knives, the knives are in the $20 range and produce a superior finish in solid wood.

You can get one of those heads from CMT, Dimar, Felder etc.

I also have some brazed carbide cutters, and an insert rebate head.

I like the shaper because it's quiet, powerful, smooth and has reversible spindle rotation for times when you need to attack the grain from the other direction.

The larger cutter diameter on the shaper results in better cutting geometry and surface finish.

I have a stock feeder on mine for a few reasons (one of those extra cost items);

- produces better results than hand feeding due to hold down force, constant feed speed

- keeps your fingers out of the cutter area

- allows climb cutting for tough grain/species problems

As with all things the devil is in the details and the devil in the shaper is the fence.

A good fence should be;

- tall and long

- square to the table

- easily adjusted in line, or parallel with each other with easy to use micro adjusters

- have the ability to install safety bars over the opening to prevent wood from tipping into the fence opening (only required if you're hand feeding)

In that respect I think the Laguna shaper had a nice fence, so probably do others. Many have mediocre fences.

- have good dust collection

Keep looking and reading, as well watch some videos on the Felder site about combination machines, showing the shaper portion in action, and the videos on the Laguna website.

I've never owned a router or a router table, and see no reason to start now, I haven't needed to do anything that a shaper couldn't do, yet.

[David Prince]

The router table and shaper both have their place in your shop. For what you are talking about doing, the shaper will give you the best results. A 3 hp or better is a good choice. The smaller units have pretty small tables and don't have many more benefits than a router. Balancing a raised panel section on such a small table is challenging.

[thomas prusak]

Is there a difference when it comes to how much material can be removed per pass ? shaper compared to router

[Leo Graywacz]

My 3HP shaper will do a 15º bevel with a total cut of 1 5/8" in hard maple all day long with a 5" carbide panel cutter. I have a 1/4 HP feeder on it. Wother every penny.

I have 3 shapers all 3 HP - cope, stick, panel.

[glenn bradley]

Seriously this one has been beat to death


This has been beaten to death, if you need more links, use the search button.

Come on guys. Would we say the same thing about the next Festool, Saw Stop, Workbench or Bandsaw thread?? All of those have been discussed to death. If we don't talk about things, we may as well turn the forum into a static reference site ;).

Your kitchen? Router Table. 3" bits are no problem for an appropriate router.
Everyone Else's kitchens? Shaper. But I still wouldn't get rid of my router table.

[John Harden]

Come on guys. Would we say the same thing about the next Festool, Saw Stop, Workbench or Bandsaw thread?? All of those have been discussed to death. If we don't talk about things, we may as well turn the forum into a static reference site ;).

Your kitchen? Router Table. 3" bits are no problem for an appropriate router.
Everyone Else's kitchens? Shaper. But I still wouldn't get rid of my router table.

+1 on this and Rod's advice.

I have a 5 HP, variable speed, reversing shaper with power feeder that utilizes a sliding table (Felder). Very slick, but I still use my router table more often.

However, I rarely do raised panels as my tastes tend more towards flat panels (Mission, Greene & Greene, etc.).

If you intend to do lots of raised panels you'd probably be better off with a shaper. To clarify, by "lot's" I mean more than what you'd ever find in one home.

Having said that, I'll still always have a router table. They are very fast and convenient, particularly if I want to do a quick round over or a small profile on something. My shaper is part of a combo machine, so having the separate router table helps me not have to change any settings.

Just my .02.

Regards,

John

[Joe Jensen]

Making doors for a few sets of kitchen cabinets each year: router

going into production: shaper

Unless you just want the shaper, then get that. Sometimes you see them used for prices that are not much higher than a big router with table.

My advice, don't over think it. If you have a good sized variable speed router, go with that, and keep you eyes open for a shaper. Also, if you decide on the shaper, I would consider 3 HP plus.

OR....
- Hate sanding burn marks and uneven-ness from profiles, buy a shaper
- Hate the high pitched squeal of a a router, buy a shaper

A brand new top brand feeder is $1000. You can buy a great used 1HP feeder for under $500 here in phx almost every week. I just sold a fantastic Powermatic model 26 3HP shaper for $900. I see too many people getting into their router table setups for over $1000 without a feeder.

But, shaper cutters are more expensive. Grizly sells decent cutters, a panel raiser from them is like $99.

In use, there is a HUGE difference between a shaper and a router table for making doors.

[Steve Griffin]

I use my shaper almost every day. It's up there with jointer and planer as the trilogy of invaluable milling tools. Here's my thread on how I use it for nearly every piece of wood in every project:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=135238

Router table? use it about twice a year. Last time I used it was to put 1/8" rounds on the ends of 1000 ledgers for wine racks. There are very few times that a handheld trimmer or router, or the shaper, doesn't get the job done.

-Steve

[Mark Woodmark]

I have a router bit adapter for my shaper. It accepts 1/2 inch shank router bits. I have never used it. I do not have a power feeder though. What would this gain me other than the safety thing?

[Joe Chritz]

I have a router bit adapter for my shaper. It accepts 1/2 inch shank router bits. I have never used it. I do not have a power feeder though. What would this gain me other than the safety thing?

The ability to climb cut (no chip out ever) and the ability to have 100% feed speed from start to finish. Perfect hold downs and hold ins. Ability to set up the shaper as an edge jointer or the ability to run molding or door parts and have the machined and dimensioned all in one pass.

I am sure there a lot of others I am missing. It seems the options are nearly limitless.

Joe

[thomas prusak]

How many passes does it require to mill a raised panel ? 11/16" thickness or so . Using a shaper?

[Leo Graywacz]

one

..............

[John Harden]

This is true. One pass and it'll be smooth as a baby's bottom. A router table will provide the same results, but it'll be a lot more work with 2-3 passes and you'll have to be careful about feed rate and router RPM.

Use a shaper with a power feeder and as my five year old son says it'll be "easy peasy, lemon squeezy". :)

Still, unless you're doing a LOT of raised panels, I still like my router table.

Regards,

John