Am I alone?

[John Shuk]

The news that a 16 year old girl was missing in the Indian Ocean while attempting to sail solo around the world made me a little angry. (She has been found to be safe:))
Recently a 13 year old climbed Everest.
I'm sorry. What is wrong with these parents? These kids just aren't old enough to make these kinds of decisions for themselves.
I resect their abilities and applaud the dedication they show in rising to the levels that they have.
That said, these are dangerous treks with often fatal outcomes for many who undertake them. A child who isn't even old enough to consent to a legal contract, for good reason, is not capable of making a decision to engage in life threatening activities.
Again I respect and admire the spirit of these kids but I condemn the parents for allowing the kids to seek out these world record feats and face the most extreme adversity that this planet has to offer. Mother Nature will not spare them just because they are kids.
What do you think?

[Curt Harms]

I agree with you. At least when the children were setting "youngest pilot to......" "records" they had an instructor sitting there to keep 'em out of trouble (for the most part). I just read an article on the BBC news site where a highly experienced sailor said she being solo on the Indian Ocean in the winter was beyond foolhardy due to seasonal weather. Oh well, anything for 15 minutes of fame I guess.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Some people asked me if letting my then 15 yo son take flying lessons was safe, or later if I thought flying with him was safe.

There is a line that needs to be crossed every once in a while if we are to raise important citizens. While I think a sail around the world at 16 is way beyond responsible parenting, I can understand the decision-making process.
.

[Rod Sheridan]

Some people asked me if letting my then 15 yo son take flying lessons was safe, or later if I thought flying with him was safe.

There is a line that needs to be crossed every once in a while if we are to raise important citizens. While I think a sail around the world at 16 is way beyond responsible parenting, I can understand the decision-making process.
.

Exactly.

People need to take carefully considered risks to develop skills.

I don't think sailing the ocean, alone, is a carefully considered risk for anyone.

There are simply too many possible problems that are outside of human control for solo sailing of the ocean in a small boat.

Regards, Rod.

[Eric DeSilva]

Some people asked me if letting my then 15 yo son take flying lessons was safe, or later if I thought flying with him was safe.

There is a line that needs to be crossed every once in a while if we are to raise important citizens. While I think a sail around the world at 16 is way beyond responsible parenting, I can understand the decision-making process.
.

It is odd that when I heard about the sailing incident, my mind immediately flashed to Jessica Dubroff, the 7 year old who died in her bid to become the youngest pilot to fly cross country. I fear that both sets of parents were blinded by the quest for 15 minutes of fame to be rational about the risks involved. If we establish fame around being the youngest person to do X, at some point a young child is going to die because it is inherently something that shouldn't be done by a child. There are things that require an experienced hand to avoid accidents and rationally evaluate conditions. While I'm glad she is OK, I still think her parents should be flogged.

[Prashun Patel]

I love SMC. I was just about to post an OT thread about this. But for a different reason:

It's not the age that bothers me. I saw the interview with the 13yr Mt Everest climber. He's arguably in better shape and mind than some of the people who've attempted that before.

To me, the issue is an ECONOMIC one. My outrage about the 16yr old sailor was "who pays for her search and rescue"?

I think responsible people - 13, 16, or 70 should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as A) they don't hurt other people, B) We as taxpayers don't have to pay to bail them out, and C) Parents aren't pushing kids to do things they are not prepared to or want to do...

[Neal Clayton]

my 22 year old nephew handles a boat better than pretty much every grown adult man i see on the local lakes here. but then again he grew up in south louisiana and like most kids down there, everyone in the family had a boat. some had a boat but not a car. these are subjective, often times.

and C) is the situation 95% of the time. look at the hot air balloon kid from colorado. as soon as it was mentioned that the father had conspiracy websites and was submitting amateur video to news networks, we all knew it would be a hoax and the father would be behind it, for the purpose of publicity for himself.

either way i don't think it has anything to do with money (other than profiteering parents). we're gonna pay for the coast guard whether they sit around waiting for the radio to go off or whether they're actually rescuing someone.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Neal,

The CG ships sitting in port doesn't burn as much fuel as it does trying rescue someone.


The airplanes sent out to rescue that girl yesterday certainly burned more fuel.

Beyond that, often as in the case of this girl, those rescue teams put their life on the line in bad weather whether on the ships or the airplanes because someone's kid was trying to set a world record?

I agree it's for a few minutes of fame and glory and some profiteering.....maybe too much desire to puff up one's ego.

[paul cottingham]

I dunno. My grandfather fought in world war 1 (yes 1) at the age of 15. My father was 17 or 18 when he volunteered to serve in Europe during ww II. He wound up training other young men (and some much older than him, I imagine) to go overseas. I figure if you are old enough to die for your country at that age, you can probably sail a boat around the world at that age too. I take the fact that she survived that storm as pretty good evidence that she was old enough and experienced enough to take on this adventure.

[mike holden]

John,
First, not too many years ago, 16 was an adult.
Second, I dont believe that sailing with a radio is solo sailing, Joshua Slocum certainly did not have a radio.
Third, as long as people give these showoffs attention, they will continue. See the boy who hid in the attic while "his" balloon drifted away for an egregious example.

So, while I think that what they do is praiseworthy, it is so only when completed, and if they fail, and die, trying; then that is the consequence of the attempt.

Solo, should be solo, call me when you get there, if you are not back in x months, we will miss you, good luck!

If people choose to put themselves in harm's way, then rescue attempts should be nonexistant to minimal. Save the rescue teams for those that are in peril through no fault of their own. This would also put meaning into their accomplishment - you cant defy death if you dont actually defy it.

Not PC, but my thoughts,
Mike

[Rob Steffeck]

I dunno. My grandfather fought in world war 1 (yes 1) at the age of 15. My father was 17 or 18 when he volunteered to serve in Europe during ww II. He wound up training other young men (and some much older than him, I imagine) to go overseas. I figure if you are old enough to die for your country at that age, you can probably sail a boat around the world at that age too. I take the fact that she survived that storm as pretty good evidence that she was old enough and experienced enough to take on this adventure.

When your grandfather was 15 and in the service, was he alone? Was he making life and death decisions or were they being made for him? If he was a 16 year old seaman in the Navy, would they have put him in command of a ship and send him out alone? I think the answer is no, no matter how much experience he would have had on a boat.

I have no problem with children trying to do amazing things. I would have had no problem with this girl trying to sail around the world with her father on board. Sailing around the world solo, especially at the time of year she departed, carries a huge amount of risk with the chance of death. That means that the parents were ok with the risk. To me, the benefit of a world record is not worth the risk of losing your daughter.

[paul cottingham]

Fair enough. I still believe we have turned teens into china dolls who need to be protected from themselves instead of trying to make them into independent autonomous people.

[Prashun Patel]

If people choose to put themselves in harm's way, then rescue attempts should be nonexistant to minimal. Save the rescue teams for those that are in peril through no fault of their own.

My thoughts too, Mike.

[Montgomery Scott]

At 18 a person is allowed to decide if he wants to join the military and die if necessary with or without a parent's consent.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.......those rescue teams put their life on the line in bad weather whether on the ships or the airplanes because someone's kid was trying to set a world record?..........

Ken - sorry, dude, but........IIRC she was in 30 foot swells and 20 kt winds, with the winds heading to gusts up to 60 kt. Sail lost, boat eventually dismasted. I am unclear how the sailor's age comes into that - as the gods of sky and weather, do Zeus/Jupiter seek out boats on an age-specific scale, or something like that? An older master sailor would have had clear sailing? Capt Ernest M. McSorley of the Edmund Fitzgerald would disagree - if only he could.

I know 16-yr olds that are fools, and 16-yr olds that are wise beyond their years. I know 55-yr-olds that are wise beyond their years, and 55-yr-olds that are fools when compared to the wise 16-yr-olds.

[Mitchell Andrus]

If people choose to put themselves in harm's way, then rescue attempts should be nonexistant to minimal. Save the rescue teams for those that are in peril through no fault of their own.


Well.... yea, I agree to a shallow point. To take this to heart though, you have to allow kids who skateboard without a helmet to die on the street of a cracked skull while you rescue the ones who wear a helmet, but break only a wrist. No helmet = too much risk, you're on your own. Right? Good luck with that one at a town hall meeting.

Rescue one, you've got to rescue all.
.

[Mitchell Andrus]

An older master sailor would have had clear sailing?

Perhaps an older master sailor would have stayed home or steered around it, or made the attempt in a better boat.

Yes, her age and inexperience had a lot to do with it.
.

[paul cottingham]

Ken - sorry, dude, but........IIRC she was in 30 foot swells and 20 kt winds, with the winds heading to gusts up to 60 kt. Sail lost, boat eventually dismasted. I am unclear how the sailor's age comes into that - as the gods of sky and weather, do Zeus/Jupiter seek out boats on an age-specific scale, or something like that? An older master sailor would have had clear sailing? Capt Ernest M. McSorley of the Edmund Fitzgerald would disagree - if only he could.

I know 16-yr olds that are fools, and 16-yr olds that are wise beyond their years. I know 55-yr-olds that are wise beyond their years, and 55-yr-olds that are fools when compared to the wise 16-yr-olds.

+1 Age can be pretty irrelevant. Experience and wisdom count.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Perhaps an older master sailor would have stayed home or steered around it, or made the attempt in a better boat.

Yes, her age and inexperience had a lot to do with it.
.

Well, now, Mitchell.....I don't know that her boat wasn't capable of the trip - it certainly came through that blow, it seems - upright, sealed, but no mast - and her older brother made the trip just last year. Ya' think she set out in an inferior boat to his? (If it was my little sister, I would do that, but she's been a PITA for many decades :p).

And how exactly does one steer around a huge storm in a boat/ship of any type? You can't outrun them, you can't move fast enough to get out of their way - little sailboat, or aircraft carrier group.

My big brother has driven airplanes for the USAF and commercial carriers forever, and he will be the first to tell you that the prevailing theory of "big sky little plane" doesn't permit you to avoid all storms - and he has a lot of speed, 3D to work with, fancy avionics, and a huge ground network of support. And a ship is supposed to "go around" a big storm in the middle of the Indian Ocean? Of course, if you knew a week or two in advance where the weather would be, you could avoid it. But then, if you knew that you would be a multi-jillionaire from using your foresight on the stock market.

There was no better master than McSorley, and there was no better ship than the Fitz, and they are at the bottom of Lake Superior.

Of course, if you are saying no one should try this crazy stunt - any age, any boat, any time - I'd agree with that. But then, Hillary, Lindbergh, Byrd, Earhart, Armstrong, et. al., put paid to that idea.

[Mitchell Andrus]

+1 Age can be pretty irrelevant. Experience and wisdom count.

Age is a perfect predictor of both experience and wisdom. A 55 year old might have made it through a dozen storms like hers, and known when to stay in port for a few days. No 16 yo breaks out in a sweat just thinking about nearly being killed - ya gotta have been there to feel the adrenaline. Just like touching a hot stove.

No doubt the next time she tries this, she'll be better prepared, maybe have a bigger boat, and likely make the call to stay in the shallows til the storm passes.

I know she had lots of real-time help on the weather.... did they miss the call here?

Just wondering.... was the goal to do this non-stop?
.

[Pat Germain]

I think it's great that kid was out there alone; just her, her boat and the ocean. By all accounts, she is a very competent sailor. That's all that matters. Meanwhile, that young lady's peers are driving around and texting nonsense to each other about how much their life sucks. It wasn't long ago when Navy officers started training by setting sail at age twelve.

Focusing on the rescue effort and its expense is ridiculous. This is exactly why these rescue units exist. She was a competent sailor, well equipped and sailing. Weather happens suddenly and unexpectedly at sea. It's not her fault her mast broke. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with her age or experience.

The Coast Guard rescues fisherman at sea all the time. An a lot of them were doing bone-headed things. Should we say they had no business being out there fishing?

EDIT: I agree completely with Kent!

Many folks here know I was in the Navy. Ever hear of the Bermuda Triangle? Here's the real deal. There's nothing mysterious or paranormal about it. It's simply an area where there are a lot small boats and aircraft sailing and flying between the US, Bermuda and multiple islands in the Caribbean.

Simply by the sheer number of boats and planes, you're going to see a lot of them disappear due to weather and mechanical failure. But add to this that many, many of those pilots and sailors are incapable of navigating or handling emergencies. Then throw in the fact they drink heavily enroute. This all adds up to "The Devil's Triangle". :rolleyes: Their age is irrelevant.

Case in point: When I was aboard the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt (TR), we fished two guys from the Caribbean. Their trimaran had capsized three days before we found them. They were sunburned and dehydrated, but otherwise OK. However, if the TR had not happened by, they would have soon been dead and never seen again. By the logic I'm seeing here, we should have sent a bill to those two sailors for having the audicity to capsize at sea.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken - sorry, dude, but........IIRC she was in 30 foot swells and 20 kt winds, with the winds heading to gusts up to 60 kt. Sail lost, boat eventually dismasted. I am unclear how the sailor's age comes into that - as the gods of sky and weather, do Zeus/Jupiter seek out boats on an age-specific scale, or something like that? An older master sailor would have had clear sailing? Capt Ernest M. McSorley of the Edmund Fitzgerald would disagree - if only he could.

I know 16-yr olds that are fools, and 16-yr olds that are wise beyond their years. I know 55-yr-olds that are wise beyond their years, and 55-yr-olds that are fools when compared to the wise 16-yr-olds.

Sorry my foot.

Age has nothing to do with it EXCEPT....she and her parents wanted their 15 minutes of fame and therefore she was out there AND rescuers were put in harms way in bad weather. It would not be nearly as headline garnering if it had been a 61 year old instead of a 16 year old.

If she hadn't been out there.....neither would have the rescuers.....

[Pat Germain]

Sorry my foot.

Age has nothing to do with it EXCEPT....she and her parents wanted their 15 minutes of fame and therefore she was out there AND rescuers were put in harms way in bad weather. It would not be nearly as headline garnering if it had been a 61 year old instead of a 16 year old.

If a 61 year old was trying to set a record we would have heard about it. Just like we heard about it when Richard Branson was trying to set ballooning records. I guess he shouldn't have bothered. He had to be rescued more than once.


If she hadn't been out there.....neither would have the rescuers....

Well, that's the case with any rescue, isn't it?

I don't think the objective was 15 minutes of fame. I don't know all the details, but it's likely she sought sponsors to assist with the cost. The girl is from a family of sailors. And she is a very good sailor. She wanted to challenge herself and set a record. That's part of the human experience. If she tried to go over Niagra falls in a barrel, I'd say, "Yeah, that was stupid and just for fame". But I think setting a sailing record is completely different.

[Neal Clayton]

Ken - sorry, dude, but........IIRC she was in 30 foot swells and 20 kt winds, with the winds heading to gusts up to 60 kt. Sail lost, boat eventually dismasted. I am unclear how the sailor's age comes into that - as the gods of sky and weather, do Zeus/Jupiter seek out boats on an age-specific scale, or something like that? An older master sailor would have had clear sailing? Capt Ernest M. McSorley of the Edmund Fitzgerald would disagree - if only he could.

I know 16-yr olds that are fools, and 16-yr olds that are wise beyond their years. I know 55-yr-olds that are wise beyond their years, and 55-yr-olds that are fools when compared to the wise 16-yr-olds.

that's basically my sentiment. growing up in the new orleans area with a family that loved to fish, i can say, with not so much gusto but more with some caution, that i have been out way too far in way too small a boat. the ocean isn't very forgiving. it's a pretty far cry from a ride around the average freshwater lake, when an afternoon shower can give you 10-12 foot seas in a matter of minutes, and if you can't get the engine running again you're not gonna get any closer to home because the tide is taking you further out.

that's one of the reasons why we have a coast guard. that's their job, and from my one experience with them (dad had a heart attack on a fishing boat out in the gulf), they do it well. he's alive and well today because the coast guard got there so fast with the helo. i've never heard of a complaint that coast guard response to any situation was less than "everything that can possibly be done to sort this out". so i don't think there's any need to pick and choose who they help the most.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........Their age is irrelevant.......When I was aboard the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt (TR), we fished two guys from the Caribbean.....

age: my point exactly. There are a lot of solo sailors out there that are way older than 16, and they would have been in the same predicament in weather like that, and they have been there more than once.

Me thinks the Hon Mr Fitzgerald is generally annoyed by folks that have to be rescued, for whatever reason - and I have no argument with you, Ken - just think that the age itself would seem to make no difference.

Anyone finally find Amelia, and they would be heroes - their 15 min cemented in. Coupla bucks spent on that search - and I'm not saying she should or should not have ventured out, only that age isn't the driver. If she hadn't been out there, neither would the rescuers/searchers.

next: How in the heck does an 1,100 foot carrier even SEE a coupla guys in the ocean? Makes me think of Huck and Jim on the raft with the steamboat bearing down on them. Per Wiki - "The Big Stick" (love that moniker) @ 260,000 hp and 30kt top end (yeah - right - like I believe that number), slinging $jillion warplanes off a perfectly good surface at 180mph........ and there are some guys out there floating aournd on the currents that you happened across? Yikes. Betcha those guys have rooted for Navy in every game since.

[Tony Joyce]

"If people choose to put themselves in harm's way, then rescue attempts should be nonexistant to minimal. Save the rescue teams for those that are in peril through no fault of their own."

And who gets to make the decision which is which?

[Pat Germain]

next: How in the heck does an 1,100 foot carrier even SEE a coupla guys in the ocean? Makes me think of Huck and Jim on the raft with the steamboat bearing down on them. Per Wiki - "The Big Stick" (love that moniker) @ 260,000 hp and 30kt top end (yeah - right - like I believe that number), slinging $jillion warplanes off a perfectly good surface at 180mph........ and there are some guys out there floating aournd on the currents that you happened across? Yikes. Betcha those guys have rooted for Navy in every game since.

Even more amazing, we found them at night! Actually, it was a very alert lookout we had up on the signal bridge. He saw a tiny light in the distance and reported it. Then he got permission to turn on the zillion candlepower light we had up there and, sure enough, the light was coming from two clowns clinging to an upside-down boat.

You'd think those guys would have been appreciative. All we ever heard from them was a tiny post card from one guy's mom saying, "Thanks for saving Bufkin". :rolleyes:

There's no end to the boneheads on the water. Later on TR, we were doing shock trials in a closure area. We had literally thousands of pounds of TNT sitting off the starboard side ready to cook off when some sailboat wanders in to take a look at "The big ship!". We sent a helicopter to chase them off and announce they were in a closure area. They got on the radio and said they wouldn't leave until we compensated them for the sails the helicopter damaged. Boy, I wanted to push the "BANG!" button right then!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Kent,

Once again you obviously don't understand and don't want to understand what I am saying.....

I don't have a problem with the Coast Guard rescuing a fisherman having a heart attack.....or rescuing commercial fishermen from a sinking vessel....or any other maritime event of a commercial nature.

What I am saying is that to me....IMHO.....it is immoral for idiots or ego maniacs to put themselves in positions that require rescuers be unnecessarily endangered to rescue those folks.

You and Pat say that age didn't matter.....without researching in any fashion....what's the age of any of the other hundreds of folks climbing Everest this climbing season? If you can honestly tell me.....without researching..... call 911 because I will have a heart attack and need rescuing.

Obviously the only reason you know that kid was 13 is because he and his parents got their 15 minutes of fame.

Other folks have had problems sailing the world solo and the lead headline was not "16 year old girl's emergency beacons both radioing for help".....

If someone is doing something for a practical, useful reason, I have no problem with rescuers being required. But for rescuers to be endangered or God forbid, killed or injured because of someone trying to break a record....I'm sorry it's immoral in my book.

[Larry Frank]

Ah, the variety of thought and opinions. Every parent makes the descisions as to how to be raise their kids to be both independent and protected.

My wife and I were on the conservative side and everything has worked out fine for the kids and the parents. I cringe every spring as high school graduation approaches as there are too many kids killed with the combination of alcohol, cars and late night. Another choice for a parent, do you allow your kids to be kids and out late at night or do you place limits on them? It is a choice a parent will have to live with.

I think that this is an issue for the girl and the parents. The outcome given the sea conditions could have easily been fatal or the daughter and boat lost forever. You have to ask how they would have felt with that outcome and was the risk worth the reward. Only they can answer the question?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, Once again you obviously don't understand and don't want to understand what I am saying......

Ooohhhhhh - I actually think I understood your point pretty clearly the first time. I just don't happen to agree, that's all. I'll go off in my corner and look for a different dead horse........;). Simply a difference of opinion - No harm, no foul, in my book. Cheers.

[Pat Germain]

If someone is doing something for a practical, useful reason, I have no problem with rescuers being required. But for rescuers to be endangered or God forbid, killed or injured because of someone trying to break a record....I'm sorry it's immoral in my book.

So we shouldn't rescue rich folks who get lost or injured at sea while heading for Nassau to drink and gamble? That doesn't seem like a practical purpose to me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Even more amazing, we found them at night! Actually, it was a very alert lookout we had up on the signal bridge. He saw a tiny light in the distance and reported it........

You're driving/riding the most impressive piece of nuke-powered "power projector" ever invented - I'd hope (and am glad to hear) there are eagle-eyes standing watch 24/7.

So - really, now - how fast does that sucker really go when you stomp on the throttle? Betcha that fantail was taller than the command bridge.

[Jon Lanier]

I concur... what is wrong with these parents.

Just because one can... does not mean one should.

[Jon Lanier]

Fair enough. I still believe we have turned teens into china dolls who need to be protected from themselves instead of trying to make them into independent autonomous people.

My first thought of concern was not navigating the oceans. My first thought came about a 16 year old girl who looks to be adorable. There are jerks out there that could easily take advantage of her on the high seas. And calling out for help doesn't seem to work if you need help within minutes.

I then thought of all the Piracy that has been going on. Yea, they'd take her hostage too.

Just not worth it.

[Pat Germain]

You're driving/riding the most impressive piece of nuke-powered "power projector" ever invented - I'd hope (and am glad to hear) there are eagle-eyes standing watch 24/7.

So - really, now - how fast does that sucker really go when you stomp on the throttle? Betcha that fantail was taller than the command bridge.

Oh, the Navy loves to stand watches! On a carrier, there are people on watch in engineering, all the time, 24/7, year round. Yes, even in port. The engineering spaces are ALWAYS manned. Underway, there is a team on watch on the main bridge, on the signal bridge, the fantail, in Combat, in Flag Command and in Intel. When flight operations are ongoing, there is a watch for the arresting gear. The main mess desk is open twenty hours a day, so those guys are almost always working.

I honestly don't know how fast a nuke carrier can go. You see, when they're new, they take the reactor to a certain point and say, "That's 100%". It's got a lot of steam left, but for safety and othe reasons, they set that. I a true emergency, I expect they will push it beyond 100%.

I can tell you on TR, the monitor which showed the current speed stopped just over 30 knots. But I could certainly feel the ship accelerating long after that. Enterprise is probably the fastest carrier, and possibly the fastest large ship, afloat. While the Nimitz class have two reactors, Enterprise has eight!

[Joe Chritz]

Kent,

What I am saying is that to me....IMHO.....it is immoral for idiots or ego maniacs to put themselves in positions that require rescuers be unnecessarily endangered to rescue those folks.



We call that Thursday night. ;)

Joe

[Steve Schlumpf]

I find it interesting that everyone is so passionate with their opinions but, instead of offering mine, I am going to remind everyone to keep their emotions in check and, if need be, just agree to disagree.

Thanks! Have a great day!

[Leo Voisine]

Hmmm - I dunno

I think we often times underestimate what our kids can do.

I think we lower our expectations too much, as to what they "should" do.

I think we "baby" them too much.

I think kids should be doing calculus in high school.

I am a parent - my kids are grown and have their own families now. We all have GREAT relations with them.

No - I don't think 16 is too young to sail around the world.
Yes - I do think 16 is too young to sail around the world.

It depends on what they have learned prior to being 16.

Most of the kids in the US that have been raised in homes with very low expectations - yes - way too young.

[John Shuk]

I agree that kids may be babied too much. I agree that many kids are capable of great feats. Many kids show amazing wisdom.
Those kids under 18 or so can't get a tattoo without parental permission or even get a drivers license without a signature in many states. A parent is not allowed to tell the courts that they thought it was okay for their underage child to have relations with an older person.
We have laws like that in hopes that a youth will gain the requisite life experience to allow for long term thinking.
We have to accept at some point that a young person has to live with most decisions being made for them.
Did her folks explain to her that she could die attempting this? That the could float for days dying of thirst while she slowly goes mad? That the mast could break off and disable her?
I've read many first hand accounts of shipwreck victims and people stranded at sea.
If I said okay to a trip like this and my kid died I would feel responsible... and I would be. I would blame myself for the world's loss.... and I should.
Some synonyms for custodian:Keeper, steward, defender, guardian, protector, shielder.

[mike holden]

Well.... yea, I agree to a shallow point. To take this to heart though, you have to allow kids who skateboard without a helmet to die on the street of a cracked skull while you rescue the ones who wear a helmet, but break only a wrist. No helmet = too much risk, you're on your own. Right? Good luck with that one at a town hall meeting.

Rescue one, you've got to rescue all.
.


Mitch, your response is flawed in that the kid out skateboarding is NOT trying to attempt a prodigious feat. Sailing around the world solo is both prodigious and dangerous. Choosing to do so includes accepting the risk. The kid out skateboarding is just having a good time and is neither accepting a great risk nor attempting a prodigious feat.
Apples and Oranges, but I see your point, and for the kids on the street, I agree with it.
Mike

[Pat Germain]

Did her folks explain to her that she could die attempting this? That the could float for days dying of thirst while she slowly goes mad?

I saw a TV interview with her parents. Yes, they all understood she could die out there sailing across the planet. They all understood the risks. As her father pointed out, teenagers die every day in car wrecks. Driving is dangerous. Yet most parents allow their teens to drive and ride in cars. Sailing around the world is probably no more risky than driving cross-country on a two lane highway.

I also wondered about the danger from pirates. I'd like to think that girl has, at the very least, a .45 pistol and lots of ammunition.

Overall, we've already accepted that people find themselves in situations where they need help or require rescueing. Therefore, we have established organizations which help and rescue people. We pass laws requiring some training and safety gear and then let them do as they wish.

[Matt Meiser]

Mitch, your response is flawed in that the kid out skateboarding is NOT trying to attempt a prodigious feat.

I don't know--check out YouTube some time...

[John Shuk]

"Sailing around the world is probably no more risky than driving cross-country on a two lane highway."
I have to differ with that statement.
Fifteen foot waves don't usually occur on most highways.

[Pat Germain]

"Sailing around the world is probably no more risky than driving cross-country on a two lane highway."
I have to differ with that statement.
Fifteen foot waves don't usually occur on most highways.

But you don't have speeding boats driven by texting morons coming at you on the high seas. ;)

[paul cottingham]

I think the fact that she survived the storm says she was old enough, and experienced enough. Most of th spoiled, pampered 16 (or 20 or 26 year olds) I know would have curled up an died.

[Kent A Bathurst]

But you don't have speeding boats driven by texting morons coming at you on the high seas. ;)

Says the guy with a few thousand tons of warship strapped to his a**...........:D :D :D

[Matt Walton]

I think it depends greatly on the person doing it. I also think that anybody could have been caught in that situation, but there may or may not have been things that could be done. I'm 15, going to be a Junior next year, and finished Saxon's Advanced Mathematics last year. Now I am homeschooled, but I went through this course in a homeschool group, so it was the pace of public school if not faster. I am fully qualified to do Calculus next year (as a Junior), and the only reasons I am not doing it is because I have other stuff that I need to do, and we wouldn't have the same awesome teacher.

It seems to me that either nobody has heard about her, or has simply forgotten about it, but has anybody read the Australian girl's blog? she sailed around the world, and didn't touch land once. http://www.jessicawatson.com.au/
Maybe we Americans are breeding the intelligence out of public school kids like we did with turkeys. You know what, scratch that last analogy. That's just weird... :rolleyes:

[Joe Chritz]

It seems to me that either nobody has heard about her, or has simply forgotten about it, but has anybody read the Australian girl's blog? she sailed around the world, and didn't touch land once. http://www.jessicawatson.com.au/
Maybe we Americans are breeding the intelligence out of public school kids like we did with turkeys. You know what, scratch that last analogy. That's just weird... :rolleyes:

Nope, I think you hit it just right.

Joe

[Mike Henderson]

I'm late to the party but here's my opinion.

She was very late starting out, which put her into the southern ocean during storm season. Many experienced sailors have been quoted as saying her voyage was foolhardy because of the timing.

So why didn't her parents say to her, "Because of the problems we had getting the boat set up, you should wait until next year and leave earlier."? The answer is because she would have been 17 and too old to set the "Youngest solo circumnavigation". So they encouraged her to go, even though other experienced mariners recommended against it.

Then, she had problems with her auto pilot so she put into South Africa, which eliminated the record - because the record required no port calls.

So why did she continue on at that point? No possibility of a record, heading into the southern ocean in storm season? Somebody was not making mature decisions, either her or her parents.

I understand Ken's position. Because of the poor planning and imprudent decision making, a lot of money was spent rescuing her, and people were put at risk. The captain of the fishing boat fell into the ocean during the rescue and had to be rescued himself. Suppose someone had died during her rescue? How would she and her parents live with that, knowing that your poor planning caused someone's else's death?

So my answer is that she shouldn't have been out there in the southern ocean in a small boat, with winter coming on. No matter what her age. And the only reason she was out there was because her parents were seeking their 15 minutes of fame.

Mike

[Mitchell Andrus]

Well said, Mike.
.

[Curt Harms]

.............
Many folks here know I was in the Navy. Ever hear of the Bermuda Triangle? Here's the real deal. There's nothing mysterious or paranormal about it. It's simply an area where there are a lot small boats and aircraft sailing and flying between the US, Bermuda and multiple islands in the Caribbean.
...............


I think there's an additional factor, at least for airplanes. There's a lot of airplanes flying around the "Bermuda Triangle" that aren't the most airworthy things to ever take wing. Many airports have "cockroach corners". The ones in S. Florida and the Caribbean take up a fair bit of the airport. Old, poorly maintained, corroded from being unsheltered in a salt water environment. I flew a Cessna 172 down there years ago. More than 4600 hours on the engine and I found out later it had never had a major overhaul. Normal TBO (time between overhauls) is 1600 hours. TBO didn't apply in this case because it wasn't used in air carrier operations. When the compression on a cylinder got low, they just put on a new cylinder and kept on flying.

[John Shuk]

I just don't think her parents have the right, morally, to allow her to put her life at this level of risk. Things like this keep coming up in the news and I think it is wrong.

[paul cottingham]

My first thought of concern was not navigating the oceans. My first thought came about a 16 year old girl who looks to be adorable. There are jerks out there that could easily take advantage of her on the high seas. And calling out for help doesn't seem to work if you need help within minutes.

I then thought of all the Piracy that has been going on. Yea, they'd take her hostage too.

Just not worth it.

Must admit, hadn't thought at all about the piracy angle.

[Ben Hatcher]

My old boss served on the Enterprise and said that they bent the hull doing speed tests. Top speed was 70 mph! As for the 30 knots, as I'm told, in order to launch planes, they need a 30 knot head wind. If that is true, 30 knots is more like a normal cruising speed than a top end.

[Joe Chritz]

Not that this is a huge surprise but this link may shed a little light on daddy o's though process.

Sailor Abby Sunderland's Dad Signed Her To TV Deal Before Her Doomed Voyage

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/06/14/sailor-abby-sunderlands-dad-signed-reality-doomed-voyage/

Joe

[Pat Germain]

Well, I must admit, Mike's information as well as the new info on the "TV deal" puts this situation into a different light. I too am starting to question this whole endeavor.

[Ed Harrow]

Many of the things our daughter has done resulted in some rolling eyes... She took the train to Boston to go to high school for a start... We constantly enlarged her corral as she showed herself capable.

While this kid showed herself to be a very capable sailor, in the end she, and the boat, came up short. The boat, IMOO, was in no way suitable for such a venture. Fast? Yes. Utimately seaworthy??? A truely competent sailor would have been able to figure out some sort of jury rig, and would likely have given serious consideration to the weather. Many boats abandoned in a Fastnet race were later found floating.

Going out, with the expecations of being rescued, is way too common today. Read the AMC annual and note the number of people who wandered down some trail and ended up calling 911...

A better story (tho not particularly well written) is entitled Maiden Voyage. The author, who's name I don't recollect, was two years older, and with less sailing experience, I believe. She wasn't out to get her name in lights - a big difference.

Talk about rambling ;)

[Mike Henderson]

I'll just add the comment that a lot of the records organizations have eliminated the "youngest" category because it pushes younger and younger kids to do very dangerous things.

A 16 year old, Australian Jessica Watson (http://www.jsyk.com/2010/05/17/jessica-watson-makes-history-by-completing-sailing-trip-around-t/), completed her solo, non-stop, round the world sail. Soon, it will be a 15 year old trying to sail around the world. And if s/he makes it, then a 14 year old will try it.

High time we quite recognizing/encouraging these "youngest records".

Mike

[Mitchell Andrus]

Not that this is a huge surprise but this link may shed a little light on daddy o's though process.

Sailor Abby Sunderland's Dad Signed Her To TV Deal Before Her Doomed Voyage

Joe

There ya go. Balloon Boy all over again.

Gee, maybe I can get my kid to scuba dive down to the Titanic. ....Oh ya, I forgot. He's 19.... Too old to be put in harm's way.
.

[Bill Leonard]

16 or 60, why would anyone attempt a circumnavigation in the Southern hemisphere in the winter, let alone solo? Shortest route, possibly, but the same distance in January not May/June!

[Curt Harms]

You're driving/riding the most impressive piece of nuke-powered "power projector" ever invented - I'd hope (and am glad to hear) there are eagle-eyes standing watch 24/7.

So - really, now - how fast does that sucker really go when you stomp on the throttle? Betcha that fantail was taller than the command bridge.

but I was told that during the '70's attempted Iranian hostage rescue operation the Navy had to use P3's to shoo the little boats out of the Enterprise' way. There were no destroyers etc. fast enough for the job. The guy telling me this was a crewmember on the P3. He also said the wake endangered small craft a good distance away.

[Pat Germain]

but I was told that during the '70's attempted Iranian hostage rescue operation the Navy had to use P3's to shoo the little boats out of the Enterprise' way. There were no destroyers etc. fast enough for the job. The guy telling me this was a crewmember on the P3. He also said the wake endangered small craft a good distance away.

It is true that there are no cruisers, destroyers or frigates which can keep up with a nuke aircraft carrier. Not only do they have crazy amounts of power, but they have a significant advantage in length to width ratio. This is a property of fluid flow mechanics where the greater the difference in length to width, the easier it is to move through the water. So, in this area, an aircraft carrier is similar to a canoe.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Well, I must admit, Mike's information as well as the new info on the "TV deal" puts this situation into a different light. I too am starting to question this whole endeavor.

Ditto. Wacko. But - wacko at any age, to press my original point. Parents are clearly nuts - but you can't choose your parents, apparently.

Pat - here is something I just saw that'll take you back. I personally could not handle the pucker factor landing on a runway that short. Plus - by my count - just over 3 seconds on launch to the open sea under the wings. Holy Strap In, Batman!!


http://vholdr.com/video/lap-around-boat

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Kent,

The only time I may have snookered my youngest son was with that pucker factor.

In HS and in college he was a ski instructor. He was an adrenalin junky. At the ski resort where he worked, he was one of 2 allowed to teach aerials. When skiing with him the first time, I had him clear me in the air.

He called me up one day from San Antonio. "Dad....I hope you don't mind....I applied to the air force to be a pilot"

My reply "That's okay son....if you want to be a 2nd class pilot"....

His immediate comeback "What do you mean 2nd class pilot?!@#$%^&*

My reply "Son I was 15 when I flew and landed a single engine air plane on a 10,000' runway. That's 2 miles long. Let's make it 1200' long, 200' wide..it is doing 30 knots into a 30 knot wind...it's rolling, pitching, yawing and you have a hook on your butt and there 4 wires down there but just in case, you are gonna land full throttle and flaps so that if you would miss the wires, you might come around and try again. And.......God forbid! that the sun gets down before you do!"

He called me up a few weeks later....."Dad...I've applied to the Navy to be a pilot!"

If nothing else....those Navy pilots have courage....I helped train a few during the '70s.

[Pat Germain]

Ken, is your son now a Navy pilot?

I work with two F/A-18 pilots. They are both the most laid-back and cool cats you'll ever meet. If anyone talks about the crazy things they do when launching from and landing on a carrier, they just shrug it off.

While I never rode in a fighter jet, I have been a passenger in a Carrier Onboard Delivery or "COD" aircraft multiple times. It's a twin engine, turbo-prop with a small passenger compartment in the back and a tail hook. The passenger seats face aft and there are only two small windows. So, if you're not sitting right next to one of those windows, you can't see anything.

When the cat first launches, it is by no means a gradual acceleration. Imagine being strapped into a chair with a 100 foot cable attached to a speeding freight train. Suddenly, the slack runs out and, BANG!, you're jerked off the deck. I could actually feel my eyes being sucked out of my head. Then you go from five G's to just over zero G's and it feels like you're surely falling into the drink.

Landing is, of course, the opposite. You yank and bank in an oval pattern around the ship until getting clearance to land (again, unable to see anything). This is where most people decide to hurl. Luckily, I was never the path of projectile vomiting. Others weren't so lucky. The plane winds down to an idle and pretty much glides in. As soon as the tail hook is over the arresting wires, the pilot drops the plane straight down, hard, with a "WHACK!". Then he goes to full throttle. For a few seconds, the plane is at full throttle and being held back only by a cable with the entire airframe shaking.

Yeah. It's an "E-Ticket"! :D

[Brent Ring]

So many opinions, such an intersting thread to read.

For the record, all decisions for your children depend on their level of maturity and experience (combination making up wisdom). It may be ok for a 16 year old, it may not.

My compassion extends farther than to leave someone floating in the middle of nowhere just because they wanted their 15 mins or so. Thats just my personal level of compassion. Yours may differ.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Pat,

No. He was in Flight Officer school in P'cola, fell down some stairs, injured his neck and developed migraines. He could get in immediately if he went as a FO. He was far enough through school that he had to give them 4 years. He got assigned as a ship's company officer aboard the Chucky V and found out he liked the Navy. He has a degree in pre-med so he ended up being the medical administrative officer. He's currently in dental school on a Navy scholarship. He resigned his commission and enlisted and is a CPO currently. As an enlisted man, the 4 years of dental school count towards retirement. As an officer they don't. Of course, all doctors and dentists start as LTs. so he goes right back to the same rank he had when he resigned. He has IIRC 12 or 13 years towards retirement currently.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Pat, hull speed of a displacement hull is based on waterline length. The maximum threoretical attainable speed is 1.34 x the square root of the waterline length. Planing hulls are a whole different animal and max speed is largely dependent on power available. Hence adestroyer, frigate, or cruiser doesn't have the waterline length to atain anywhere near as fast a speed. Just bunch of old info from my active sea kayaking days.

[Rick Prosser]

Wow - ya just never know what you might learn on one of these threads...:cool:

[Charlie Reals]

My old boss served on the Enterprise and said that they bent the hull doing speed tests. Top speed was 70 mph! As for the 30 knots, as I'm told, in order to launch planes, they need a 30 knot head wind. If that is true, 30 knots is more like a normal cruising speed than a top end.

I have a fresh crisp Ben Franklyn says the Big E has never neared 70mph:D:D Top claimed speed is 33knots. Yes, she can move fast enough to vibrate and spring the hull but she wont approach 70 mph. Man what a ride that would be though. I was on a DE with a flank speed of 28 knots which we couldn't maintain for more than two hours. The big E and any other nuke can maintain flank speed until the ship shakes apart or the fuel cells deplete.
We were in escort the first time the Enterprise came into Frisco. Had to wait till low tide and even then it was close under the Gate.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Charlie,

When my youngest son was ships company the USS Carl Vinson, I rode it from San Francisco to Bremerton.

I was on the flight deck when we cleared the Golden Gate bridge. As a former ET, I was watching antennas and thinking "these guys are pros....they know what they are doing"......:o

[Charlie Reals]

Charlie,

When my youngest son was ships company the USS Carl Vinson, I rode it from San Francisco to Bremerton.

I was on the flight deck when we cleared the Golden Gate bridge. As a former ET, I was watching antennas and thinking "these guys are pros....they know what they are doing"......:o

That must have been when she came out of the docks at hunters point.I believe they can lower the antanna masts if needed.
Growing up in the bay area allowed me to witness our Naval power at it's best. At one time there were 15 military installations around the bay. Now the Coast Guard is all that is left.
In the sixties there could be as many as 3 carriers in port at a time.
We even launched a few round the world jaunts from there but we were all over 19 (back on subject) or had parents permission lol

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Charley.....it was around Thanksgiving of 2000.

They deployed to fly the southern NoFly Zone in July of 2001.

They returned in January of 2002. For Christmas 2001, I bought my wife a 1-way ticket to Pearl Harbor. She flew to Peal Harbor early in January....she and the youngest son ran around for 30 hours and they both boarded the Vinson. She road it from P.H. to San Diego and then on to Bremerton.

Their next deployment was around the world and eventually to overhaul in Viriginia. The son deployed with them and flew back at the end of his active duty from Australia.

[Pat Germain]

I have a fresh crisp Ben Franklyn says the Big E has never neared 70mph:D:D Top claimed speed is 33knots. Yes, she can move fast enough to vibrate and spring the hull but she wont approach 70 mph. Man what a ride that would be though.

If there was a way I could prove it to you, I would take that bet, Charlie. ;)

[Charlie Reals]

If there was a way I could prove it to you, I would take that bet, Charlie. ;)
Pat,
I believe you would lose lol. I think what happened here is someone misunderstood km/h to mean mph.

Naval specs show 33.6 kn or 38.7mph which is also 62.2km/h hence the 70 mph. I have a nephew on board the big E now, I sent him an email and asked lol, I haven't heard back. Lord that ship is 50 years old, just came out of a refit and is due for decommission in 2013.
Charlie

[Pat Germain]

Pat,
I believe you would lose lol. Well, that's the required formula for any bet, isn't it? :p

The average sailor wouldn't know how fast a carrier can go.

I will share one experience (minus a critical detail). I was riding the Cruiser San Jacinto years ago. We were on Plane Guard for George Washington. I was in Combat and I could hear all the voice comms on the ship. One exchange went something like this:

"San Jacinto this is George Washington. Going to XX knots. Request you stay in company, over."

"George Washington, this is San Jacinto. Get real, over."

[Charlie Reals]

Well, that's the required formula for any bet, isn't it? :p


The average sailor wouldn't know how fast a carrier can go.

I will share one experience (minus a critical detail). I was riding the Cruiser San Jacinto years ago. We were on Plane Guard for George Washington. I was in Combat and I could hear all the voice comms on the ship. One exchange went something like this:

"San Jacinto this is George Washington. Going to XX knots. Request you stay in company, over."

"George Washington, this is San Jacinto. Get real, over."

Ya know Pat you are correct.I will say though, You were in a far different Navy than I was in. :D I stood my last QD watch in 1969. Back then any sailor could tell you most if not all of the data on the ship they lived on. Not today! Sad. At the same time, back then there were only two ships in The Navy that were nuke.
I did hear back from my source on the Big E. He say's she's fast but not that fast. He is in what we referred to as the "black gang" or ships propulsion . I think that takes him outa the realm of "average sailor" on this one:). I was a BT from the bunker fuel days.
Oh well, after fifty years the bet still goes uncollected by either side.
Charlie

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I try not to judge other people, especially when I don't know the facts and circumstances.
Out of circumstantial necessity, I was doing things from age ten that most folks never do in their entire lives.

[bruce cain]

Check out the Abernathy boys from Frederick

[Kent A Bathurst]

.The average sailor wouldn't know how fast a carrier can go.......

I'm not as knowledgable as the average sailor, but I have had anecdotal conversations with a few former members of USN. The information I gleaned from those is pretty basic - whatever they publish as "top speed" ain't nearly at the true number. So when they publish "30kt" I say "BS". Don't want them Rooskies to have the real numbers (right - like they don't know already).

[Zach England]

When I was 16 all I did was drink and take drugs and screw up. A little time on a boat might have done me some good...or gotten me killed. Yeah, probably the latter.

[Brian Ashton]

I'm late in this so I may be completely out of tune with what's being said...

I met a fellow once who was doing the drywall on one of the houses I built (he was in his early 20s when I met him) that at the age of 12 sailed a boat from eastern canada to england and! then on to australia. He did it on his own. He said he'd been sailing since he could walk. The short story is, is his dad and he were to set out from canada and sail to england. But his dad had other ideas and said to him at the dock that it was his to sail - on his own. Apparently he kept saying to his dad that he was ready to do it... so his dad said ok. He told his son that he'd be waiting for him in england. He did that voyage back in the 80's so he truly did it on his own - not like the aussie girl or american girl who had all but the ability to let someone log in and sail the boat for them... The second leg was to australia. The father was there but he did nothing to help (the son said he literally did nothing but eat). I suspect that there are hundreds that have done it but like this fellow no one knows of them... because they felt there was no need to make a media spectacle out of it.

A side note to this is he and his dad have spent their lives sailing the ocean. They only return to canada to make enough money to go back to where ever the boat is in storage to get back on the sea - what a life!

I have no problem with the young wanting to climb every mountain... It's part of what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom; along with sheer ignorance! Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail... What's for curtain you can't stop the young from dreaming and the few that act on those dreams. I say let them have it.

[Jay Knoll]

Well this has been an interesting thread, I have never done around the world sailing but I have been offshore quite a bit and while one plans when one can, you never know what mother nature will send at you. But,there are times when you don't want to be in a particular place if you can and trip planning is important. However, we really don't know the motivation behind that decision so much of what has been said here is speculation

Here's another perspective

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/06/17/coleman.sunderland.parents/index.html

Jay

[Bryan Morgan]

The news that a 16 year old girl was missing in the Indian Ocean while attempting to sail solo around the world made me a little angry. (She has been found to be safe:))
Recently a 13 year old climbed Everest.
I'm sorry. What is wrong with these parents? These kids just aren't old enough to make these kinds of decisions for themselves.
I resect their abilities and applaud the dedication they show in rising to the levels that they have.
That said, these are dangerous treks with often fatal outcomes for many who undertake them. A child who isn't even old enough to consent to a legal contract, for good reason, is not capable of making a decision to engage in life threatening activities.
Again I respect and admire the spirit of these kids but I condemn the parents for allowing the kids to seek out these world record feats and face the most extreme adversity that this planet has to offer. Mother Nature will not spare them just because they are kids.
What do you think?

I am a diehard libertarian. People should do whatever it is they want to do as long as it isn't harming anyone else. If these things are what these parents and children are choosing to do, more power to them. If bad things happen, they will be responsible for it. Whats to get mad about? Its not like they are kidnapping other peoples' children and putting them in danger they are not prepared for. Kids can get killed riding their bikes down the street, yet I see many children on bicycles... Can't live life bubble wrapped and stuck in a closet for safe keeping. Would I send my kids off in a sailboat around the world? If they trained hard and I was confident in their abilities, why not? As I get older, I'm actually realizing that age doesn't necessarily mean wisdom or higher skill levels or abilities.

[Mitchell Andrus]

However, we really don't know the motivation behind that decision so much of what has been said here is speculation

Here's another perspective

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/06/17/coleman.sunderland.parents/index.html

Jay

I read the article... life is more complicated now than it was in Melville's time, or Lindberg's days or in the 1800's.

We've got better ways to teach kids than to send them off to a farm or factory at 12. We've got protective services that will come and arrest parents for letting their kids climb cliffs in national parks, or roam the streets at night, or drink a single beer in public. We remove playground equipment that's to hazardous to climb on but was perfectly fine 20 years ago. Families have about 1.9 kids these days, not 5 or 6 or 7 and we don't loose a few to disease or farm accidents or in car accidents like we used to.

The uproar over this stunt (and until it's shown that she had to sail to Australia for a loaf of bread, it was a stunt) is understandable when the people squawking about it know full well that they can't let their own kids ride in a tank of an SUV without a seat belt for fear of being fined or jailed.

I think we do know the motivation. She wanted to do what she knows how to do and the parents calculated the risk that they might loose a child and then let her do it simply for the value of having attempted it at best, and the loss of her life at worst.

The upside.... 15 minutes of fame and a few thousand dollars from the book deal. That's enough, apparently.
.

[Dennis Peacock]

Just a word of caution here.......

Leave politics out of this discussion. Please and Thank You.

[Greg Peterson]

We don't criticize or judge parents that allow their attention deficit children to get a drivers license on their 16th birthday.

This was a family decision. We may not have to like it, but for our own good we should respect it.

[David Gregory]

Fair enough. I still believe we have turned teens into china dolls who need to be protected from themselves instead of trying to make them into independent autonomous people.

Good point. It wasn't that long ago that 12 was considered prime marrying age in this country and in Europe. Age is an attitude, not a disability or handicap. I know plenty of 30 somethings that don't have the smarts to find their own backsides with both hands and a roadmap. Life comes with risks. The 16y.o. who went sailing could have been attacked by predatory individuals sure. That could also have happened in her own home right here in America. She could have run into a worse storm that capsized her boat and drowned her. She could have been hit head-on by a drunk driver right on the very street she lives on, here in America.

So, to all you doom and gloom naysayers, what's your point? Who pays for the fire dept. to come put out your house when you screw up? Who pays for the paramedics to cut you out of your crushed car when you screw up?
Way to easy to sit home behind your computer and point accusatory fingers at others when you have no clue as to "the rest of the story" now do you?

Life is risky. People learn and discover new and fascinating things by stepping outside the box and trying something that the nay sayers said couldn't be done. If mankind had listened to the nay sayers for the last tens of thousands of years. we'd still be living in caves and trying to figure out what that loud noise and bright light was that made fire.