Green Logs to Lumber...

[David Nelson1]

How long is the waiting period, after a tree is felled, before it's advisable to mill the log(s) into lumber? I have an opportunity to haul away some nasty ole hickory logs just for the labor. :rolleyes:

[Steve Bracken]

How long is the waiting period, after a tree is felled, before it's advisable to mill the log(s) into lumber? I have an opportunity to haul away some nasty ole hickory logs just for the labor. :rolleyes:

No wait that I know of. Just slice the logs, seal the ends and sticker, stack and cover them.

With some lumber, I belive you have to wait for the log to start rotting a little, if spalted boards are the aim.

[David Nelson1]

No wait that I know of. Just slice the logs, seal the ends and sticker, stack and cover them.

With some lumber, I belive you have to wait for the log to start rotting a little, if spalted boards are the aim.

Thanks Steve, I was thinking the same thing because of the lack of info. Hopefully well get a second opinion.

[Dave Lehnert]

Not sure myself but think the question is more how long can one wait before it's too late. I have noticed at the larger hardwood sawmills that they have sprinkler systems set up keeping logs wet.

Anyone know the reason for keeping the logs wet?

[Scott T Smith]

Not sure myself but think the question is more how long can one wait before it's too late. I have noticed at the larger hardwood sawmills that they have sprinkler systems set up keeping logs wet.

Anyone know the reason for keeping the logs wet?


Dave - Veneer logs are typically kept wet in order to keep the wood moist prior to cutting.


David; in a perfect world, you would fell the tree (and apply end sealer) on day 1, mill it on day 2, and get it into the kiln (or stack it for air drying) on day 3.

Unless you are trying to make spalted wood, you will have your best color and least degrade if you mill it asap after felling the tree. Some species are more forgiving than others; this is just a rule of thumb.

End sealer is much easier to apply to the end of the logs versus the ends of the individual boards.

[Josh Brower]

Dave,

I disagree with Scott's answers on a couple points:

Veneer logs are kept wet to avoid end checking which can reduce their length to shorter than panel (that magic length they make plywood out of) length. Veneer shorter than that is dramatically less in value. The inside moisture of a log does not really change by the sprinklers. See this months Fine Woodworking page 85 photos titled Hand-Picked and Kept Wet.

Another point I would disagree with would be getting the best color. As a member of the Period Furniture Makers Society and a miller of musicals grade walnut I can tell you that many fine furniture makers would not buy wood that was dried immediately after felling and cutting. The reason is extractives (see Bruce Hoadleys book Understanding Wood 2nd Ed). Extractives are what give wood its color. They are much like the dyes people apply to wood. When you immediately dry wood in a kiln the water is pulled longitudinally through the length of the tree and out the end rapidly like you are drinking through a straw. When the movement is rapid the extractives within the tree are carried with the water out of the tree and much of the color is removed from the wood. Sometimes this is done on purpose (for example when walnut is steamed to even out the difference in color from heartwood to sapwood), but normally the richness of slowly air dried wood is much preferred. Once the wood is below 30% moisture in most species it is safe to speed up the drying in a kiln without losing much of the color.

As an owner of many kilns including dehumidification and vacuum I can tell you the water removed from lumber with high moisture content is not clear and definitely tinted to the color of the lumber. The vacuum kiln boils the water through the face of the lumber and the extractives are caught inside, so the color change is not a problem here. I only mention it because few people can afford to dry normal wood in one.

My answer to your question is simple? When do you have time to mill it? As long as you follow what Scott said about sealing it and then either avoid spalt or try spalting it there is no harm cutting it now or later. PM if anyone has any further questions.

Good Luck,

Josh Brower

[Gene DiNardo]

I mill most of my own timber and air dry all of it.
once a tree is felled there is no doubt the wood starts to degrade.
The species, the climate, and how the logs are stored determine the rate and severety of degrade.
Even if you seal the ends, the logs of most species will start to check after about 5 to 6 months. I am not refering to end checking, that's a given. I mean surface checks,little cracks on the outside of the logs. The longer the log sits, the deeper they will go, especially if exposed to sun,wind, and rain and snow. This is mainly a concern if you are planning to use live edge boards.
Another reason to mill them as soon as reasonaly possible is to beat the bugs to the wood.
If you keep the logs off the ground and out of complete exposure you should be OK for a couple of months.
Im in Pa. so climate is not much different than Md.
For air drying to about 9 or 10% , I shoot for about 6- 9 months an inch of thickness (depending on time of year and species).
Hope this helps.

[Joe Chritz]

Google Gene Wengert and some of his articles on milling and drying logs.

He is a researched for the US forestry products lab and a professor at virginia tech, or at least he was.

Tons of good information.

Joe

[David Nelson1]

Sounds like everyone is in agreement about the time line so.... I'll get a sawyer to pop in and take care of my light work.:rolleyes: Thanks to all for the education.

[Scott T Smith]

Dave,

I disagree with Scott's answers on a couple points:

Veneer logs are kept wet to avoid end checking which can reduce their length to shorter than panel (that magic length they make plywood out of) length. Veneer shorter than that is dramatically less in value. The inside moisture of a log does not really change by the sprinklers. See this months Fine Woodworking page 85 photos titled Hand-Picked and Kept Wet.

Another point I would disagree with would be getting the best color. As a member of the Period Furniture Makers Society and a miller of musicals grade walnut I can tell you that many fine furniture makers would not buy wood that was dried immediately after felling and cutting. The reason is extractives (see Bruce Hoadleys book Understanding Wood 2nd Ed). Extractives are what give wood its color. They are much like the dyes people apply to wood. When you immediately dry wood in a kiln the water is pulled longitudinally through the length of the tree and out the end rapidly like you are drinking through a straw. When the movement is rapid the extractives within the tree are carried with the water out of the tree and much of the color is removed from the wood. Sometimes this is done on purpose (for example when walnut is steamed to even out the difference in color from heartwood to sapwood), but normally the richness of slowly air dried wood is much preferred. Once the wood is below 30% moisture in most species it is safe to speed up the drying in a kiln without losing much of the color.

As an owner of many kilns including dehumidification and vacuum I can tell you the water removed from lumber with high moisture content is not clear and definitely tinted to the color of the lumber. The vacuum kiln boils the water through the face of the lumber and the extractives are caught inside, so the color change is not a problem here. I only mention it because few people can afford to dry normal wood in one.

My answer to your question is simple? When do you have time to mill it? As long as you follow what Scott said about sealing it and then either avoid spalt or try spalting it there is no harm cutting it now or later. PM if anyone has any further questions.

Good Luck,

Josh Brower

Josh, very good points, and well described. I frequently make the mistake of typing a quick response as opposed to a thorough one, and it bites me every time!

When I responded about the color changes I was thinking of light colored woods such as holly, maple, pine, etc, which start to stain very quickly in the log during the summer months here in the Southeastern U.S.

Gene Wengert promotes the "get it into the kiln quickly after milling" philosophy as the best method of minimizing degrade. However your points about color extractives are very valid and provide good insight into various options available depending upon the desired end result.

There does not truly seem to be any "single best method" when it comes to drying wood; rather the answer frequently depends upon species, geographic location, time of year, desired end use, markets, etc.

Thank you for providing additional insight in your response.

Scott

[Frank Drew]

I'm partial to air-dried lumber, but I'd feel better to have the log ends sealed ASAP after felling, and the log sawn into lumber very soon after that, points that Scott already made.

I have (once) gotten excellent material out of a largish walnut log that stayed in the round so long that the bark fell off, but I'd consider that very much the exception and I assume, though don't know, that where it lay satisfied Gene's points about not being right on the ground, and shaded from direct sunlight. The color of the boards supports Josh's point about color extraction in walnut.

[Peter Drouin]

Anybody worked with white pine logs taken out of a river? Thanks Pete

[Carl Beckett]

Good to see you, you found the right place.

Maybe start a new thread on this topic - let me help (I will start a thread to discuss river logs)

[Scott Driemel]

I'm not sure where you are but here in the Northwest, it's like this. Soft Maple, Alder, & Birch are the three big hardwoods for us. I'm too far North to see any Walnut.. (my loss) The commercial mills will ONLY accept these logs in a 2 week window max from felling. The biggest reason I'm told is that 90% of it is for export, particularly to Asian markets where the "whitest" wood is the most valuable. After two weeks the mills claim that the wood darkens slightly and is no longer marketable to this strong market for them. I've spoken with mill owners in WA who stockpile maple logs 25 feet high and they sit for years. I've bought some of this and yes, it has a more "honey" or even a caramel" color to it but it's sound as a dollar. Hmm, maybe that's no longer a good anaology!
I've got dozens of birch, maple & alders on decks now for a year to 2 years. I've got some ugly checking on some, and none on others. Seems that internal stresses of logs is more a determining factor than age. I kinda' like having a log "talk" to me before milling as once it checks badly, you get an idea of where the difficult wood was inside it which might make a project difficult as well. The Maples keep their bark for ever it seems, the alder's fall off in 6 months, and the birch is between them. If your "aquiring" logs at the "right price" and don't mind losing a foot or even two on each end to checks, then throw 'em on some decking and off the ground and get to them when you can. Do paint them, as it's a great way to id by color once cut as well. My 2 cents. Best of luck on your "adventure". PS there are checks....little hairline ones and then there are CHECKS.... several feet deep and big enough to put your finger into so each log is different!

[Kevin Grady]

Hi Scott,

I'm in the Northwest as well. Would you mind sharing info on some of those mills?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Scott Driemel]

Kevin, I tried to send you a email with my phone # on it. Your welcome to call me anytime and I'll fill you in on what I've learned.