Tear Out Help?

[John Adam]

To all,

After lurking here for a year - I decided to jump in. I bought a old Bailey #5 from Sandy Moss - took a few hours to tune up and it was working. I can say that I'm hooked - found myself planing some scrap just for the joy of watching the little curlies fly around the bench.

I especially love love the lack of noise (my 5 kids can sleep while I work, what a concept)!

But, I'm trying to plane a Cherry end-table top and am getting a small amount of tear out - which seems like a big problem as I'll have to sand quite a bit to remove. Is it my technique, a dull blade, too wide a mouth, or just the wood that causes the tear out and is there something I can do to remove it rather than sand the whole dang thing (which I was hoping to avoid with a good hand plane)...

I'm attempting to plane 'with' the cathedrals (meaning that i'm planing the way they're pointing)...

Any help or references to other threads would be greatly appreciated.

[Roy Lindberry]

To all,

After lurking here for a year - I decided to jump in. I bought a old Bailey #5 from Sandy Moss - took a few hours to tune up and it was working. I can say that I'm hooked - found myself planing some scrap just for the joy of watching the little curlies fly around the bench.

I especially love love the lack of noise (my 5 kids can sleep while I work, what a concept)!

But, I'm trying to plane a Cherry end-table top and am getting a small amount of tear out - which seems like a big problem as I'll have to sand quite a bit to remove. Is it my technique, a dull blade, too wide a mouth, or just the wood that causes the tear out and is there something I can do to remove it rather than sand the whole dang thing (which I was hoping to avoid with a good hand plane)...

I'm attempting to plane 'with' the cathedrals (meaning that i'm planing the way they're pointing)...

Any help or references to other threads would be greatly appreciated.

The first thing I'd check is how big of a shaving you're taking. Pull the iron all the way in and then gently let it out as you run the plane across the wood. When it bites, try planing there for a bit and see if it continues. Take the thinnest shaving you can.

[John Adam]

Thanks...I seem to have trouble getting a very thin shaving. Seems like it's either a bit chunky, or just 'dust'....

[John Adam]

One more thing...the board is about 18" wide, and I can only work on one side of my bench. I then have to reach across the board, which doesn't seem very effective.

Will I cause more problems if I flip the board end-for-end so I can get the other side, or will going against the cathedrals cause more problems?

Thanks,

John

[Matt Radtke]

John, two things stick out at me. First, your "chunky or dust" comment. To me, that screams of a very dull blade. Back to the stones with you!

Second, yes, when finish planing (or trying to limit tear out) you need to plane with the grain.

The first thing I would try after sharpening is perhaps skewing the plane a bit more. That'll help a lot.

[Roy Lindberry]

One more thing...the board is about 18" wide, and I can only work on one side of my bench. I then have to reach across the board, which doesn't seem very effective.

Will I cause more problems if I flip the board end-for-end so I can get the other side, or will going against the cathedrals cause more problems?

Thanks,

John


Well, I'm not an expert on hand planing, so I don't know if that will cause problems...and I don't have any cherry laying around, or I'd go run my #5 across it and see.

I'd grab a scrap, if you have any, and try some different angles to the grain and see if anything helps.

[Roy Lindberry]

Thanks...I seem to have trouble getting a very thin shaving. Seems like it's either a bit chunky, or just 'dust'....

That sounds like a dull blade to me, (which could also account for the tear out).

Also, I don't know much about your technique, but if you keep the plane skewed throughout your stroke, it will make a better cut.

[John Adam]

...my favorite!

[Matt Radtke]

...my favorite!

I don't know if sharpening ever truly gets super-duper fun, but I certainly don't mind it. And I DO love to get new tools to the stone. All the faster to get some shavings!

[george wilson]

You should plane TOWARD the cathedral's tips,crazy as it seems. Also,look at the edges of the boards if they are flat cut. you should be able to see which way the grain is rising or falling.

There are always boards that have a curved,or irregular,or figured grain. They may not plane in either direction with your plane. With a bevel up LN,or Veritas plane,VERY sharp,you can plane figured woods.

A Thick replacement iron would also help. Pinnacle sells irons that will fit your plane,as well as Hock.

You can glue up the table top,and plane straight across the grain,too. It will not be as smooth as planing with the grain,but with a good sharp iron,it will not tear out the wood,leaving it ready for scraping,then sanding. I had to do that all the time for curly maple musical instruments. I got the curliest maple I could find,too. And,I was using wooden planes to do that.

You can also get a plane with a toothed iron. They grate the wood away,leaving it ready to scrape. They don't tear out,either. You sharpen them just like a regular plane iron. Maybe you can buy a toothed blade for your Stanley. I'm not sure. I use a wooden antique plane with a toothed blade.

Another thing you can do is grind a steeper bevel on the FRONT edge of your plane iron. Rob Lee likes this way. It makes your plane harder to push,but cuts with more of a scraping action,and won't tear out your figured wood. We had a new thickness planer near my shop which had a much more vertical angle to its carbide blades. It really worked well!! I was able to run curly maple through it when it was newly sharpened. Didn't tear out the curls!!! It was a Northfield,cost $30,000.00. I won't be buying one for myself ! I'll struggle along with my thickness sander.

I know that some have put a front bevel on regular thickness planer knives,and have had good success and less tear out(or none). With all that horsepower,it works fine.

[Jim Koepke]

As already pointed out, a sharp blade will help to eliminate tear out.

Planing in the direction of the cathedrals is not always correct.

152747

I have a #4 with a very tight mouth and with a freshly sharpened blade, it can take a thin shaving against the grain on pine without tear out.

Some pieces of wood are just going to be tougher than others.

jim

[george wilson]

That's the way I've always run boards through a thickness planer and got minimal tear out. Last time I used a planer a lot was to run about 1000 bd.ft. of yellow pine through,both sides. Worked fine.

Also look at the edges of the board too,as I suggested.

[John Adam]

Tons of great information - can't wait to get home and try it out....

Need to figure out how to get consisently sharp blades (trying scary sharp now)...

[Jim Koepke]

Tons of great information - can't wait to get home and try it out....

Need to figure out how to get consisently sharp blades (trying scary sharp now)...

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/user/LieNielsen

It gives some pointers on getting a sharp blade.

I think you will see most of the work for sharpening with scary sharp is done on the pull (draw) stroke.

jim

[Rick Erickson]

+4 on sharpening your blade. Although technique and narrow mouth contribute to a clean cut the dull blade is where I would start. Cherry IMO is one of the most forgiving woods to plane (quarter-sawn excluded). I just got done 10 minutes ago planing a 3' x 18" piece of cherry and that wood planes like a dream - it is my favorite hardwood to work with. With your blade adjusted just beyond dust your plane should skip across the wood hitting high spots and making beautiful hit-n-miss curls. Eventually the blade will grab across the entire board. When that happens back it off just a hair and hit the entire board one more time (removing an plane marks) and your done. Also, make sure your blade is cutting in the middle. If the corner is nose-diving that could cause serious issues.

[Roy Lindberry]

Tons of great information - can't wait to get home and try it out....

Need to figure out how to get consisently sharp blades (trying scary sharp now)...

The last time I sharpened, I followed Rob Cosman's technique and was very impressed with the results. I do not use the same stones he uses, but I still got my planes cutting better than ever before. You can see his technique here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJxSLQiaYo), whether or not you want the angle trainer (I just followed the technique without bothering to get the angle trainer.)

You can see it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvop_JCfZGI) as well.