safest tool?

[Michael MacDonald]

what is the safest tool? a measuring tape? I just cut my finger with a measuring tape. Stanley, 25-foot. doh.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

A tool is only as safe as the work habits and skills of the operator.
In almost 40 years if machining, hobby, and home building I have never once been injured. Yet I do every single thing that all the so called experts tell you not to do. My pinkies are frequently mere milimeters from the blades, I never use a riving knife, I freehand on table saws, I almost never clamp anything on the DP, I work exhausted, I'll work fast, I'll have a beer while working - - yet nary a stich.

It's all in the habits and care you develop not the recipes you invoke.

[Harold Burrell]

Oh, oh...

I see "Tape Stop" on the horizon. ;)

[Karl Brogger]

Time-clock

I have yet to get hurt punching in. Or out for that matter. I've been mauled to some degree by virtually every other single tool in a woodshop.

Cliff- you're my hero.

[Myk Rian]

Ask a trial lawyer. There are no safe tools. You could cut your lip on a drinking straw.

[Michael Schwartz]

Just about any tangible object if used inappropriately can and will cause harm.

Common sense however saves the day most of the time.

[Nathan Palenski]

Oh, oh...

I see "Tape Stop" on the horizon. ;)

Almost made me snort.

[Gil Knowles]

Michael
I hear you I cut my thumb on a tape measure 3 weeks ago and it is just now fully healing up.

Gil

[Van Huskey]

Ask a trial lawyer. There are no safe tools. you could cut your lip on a drinking straw.


Well I have an answer, there are certainly completely safe tools...

The safe tools are the ones you are too afraid to be in the same room with...:D

[Don Alexander]

i spose theres always pure dumb luck :D

[John Coloccia]

I once wore away a little bit of my finger on a DMT sharpening stoning trying to flatten the back of a chisel. I didn't even feel it while I was doing it. I only knew later when I looked down a saw a bit of blood on the stone, looked at my finger and found a little flat spot that I had ground down.

So cross sharpening stone off the list.

[Jacob Robinson]

I have yet to harm myself with my speed square, but I imagine its only a matter of time.
My personal best work related injury was when I broke my nose with a crowbar. while standing on the top of a 10 foot stepladder.
as a friend of mine put it, i had a modicum of good luck, because I managed to not take 3 quick steps backwards off the ladder.

as for tape measures, your comments reminded me of the following story:

A guy is at the dentist, getting a filling, his mouth is full of stuff, and the dentist is drilling and poking and prodding. Every once and a while, the dentist sticks this metal thing in the guys mouth, and pokes it in the hole he's drilling, which really hurts the guy, who complains. The dentist tells him "oh, that can't hurt, its only a measuring device." This goes on for a few minutes, with the guy mumbling his complaints through the mass of tools in his mouth, and the dentist reiterating "its just a measuring device". Finally, the guy has had enough; he sits up, takes the tools out of his mouth and says "I''ll be right back, I'm going to go down to my truck, get my tape measure, bring it up here, and hit you as hard as I can in the head with it. But it won't hurt, because its just a measuring device."

[Michael MacDonald]

....hit you as hard as I can in the head with it. But it won't hurt, because its just a measuring device."


that made me laugh through the pain.

[Brian Kincaid]

... I have never once been injured. Yet I do every single thing that all the so called experts tell you not to do. My pinkies are frequently mere milimeters from the blades, I never use a riving knife, I freehand on table saws, I almost never clamp anything on the DP, I work exhausted, I'll work fast, I'll have a beer while working...

It's only a matter of time before 'chance' catches up with you. Let's not confuse luck with skill. Would you teach your child to work the way you work?
-Brian

[Gene Howe]

The safest tools in my shop are the ones that lay, collecting dust, on some shelf. Or those that quit working and I don't have the heart to throw them away.

And, Cliff R. I am surprised and dismayed.:eek:

[Paul Steiner]

Just about any tangible object if used inappropriately can and will cause harm.

Common sense however saves the day most of the time.

After teaching High School for several years I can assure you no tangible object is safe from a lack of common sense. A speed square was mentioned as being pretty safe, until it is left on top of a 10' ladder and you close the ladder. It is not the object its the user. Example: A student in my class took a project piece about 1"x4"x6" and slapped in on a workbench. He did this because he wanted to "hear a loud sound". He heard and felt a loud sound, the board caught just enough of his thumb to give him a blood blister 3/4" in diameter.

[george wilson]

The safest tool is a CLEAN blackboard eraser.:)

[Louie Ballis]

I dropped a wooden hand screw (type of clamp) on my big toe from a level of waist high (while barefoot in the shop-a bad idea to start with).

Took 3 months for the nail to grow back.

Bad thing was I wasnt even woodworking I was just organizing my clamps on a clamp rack!

[Maurice Ungaro]

I find that it's hard to hit your thumb, if you hold your hammer with BOTH hands! :rolleyes:

[Rod Sheridan]

A tool is only as safe as the work habits and skills of the operator.
In almost 40 years if machining, hobby, and home building I have never once been injured. Yet I do every single thing that all the so called experts tell you not to do. My pinkies are frequently mere milimeters from the blades, I never use a riving knife, I freehand on table saws, I almost never clamp anything on the DP, I work exhausted, I'll work fast, I'll have a beer while working - - yet nary a stich.

It's all in the habits and care you develop not the recipes you invoke.


Cliff, you need to stop drinking the cool aid and recognize that it's all been luck for you if you really do have such poor work habits.

Or, your home location is Krypton..............Regards, Rod.

[mike holden]

The safest tool is the one you dont own, dont have, and dont have access to.
Grinnnnn!
Mike

[Paul Steiner]

I find that it's hard to hit your thumb, if you hold your hammer with BOTH hands! :rolleyes:

Until you strike the nail and it flies out and hits you.

[Peter Quinn]

Wood working is inherently dangerous. Please follow all safety protocols. Retract tape measures slowly and with great caution. Wear appropriate eye, ear and hand protection, including thick kevlar or leather gloves. If they are thick enough you will never be able to pull it out in the first place, which insures even greater safety. Never scribe curved work freehand on a table saw. Keep at least 5" minimum safe distance between the head and butt at all times. If you have any questions about the safety of an operation, please consult a stupervisor for additional instruction. Just because somebody else is doing something stupid with injury doesn't mean the behavior should be copied.

The other day I cut my self pretty deep emptying the trash. A metal can had worn on the bottom to the point of sharpness, I was wearing gloves without finger tips, up ended it into the dumpster and slice, oops, ouch. So definitely rule out taking out the trash. I have also been sliced by plastic cans, no safe bet there either. I work with cutting tools all day and the closest I get to the hospital is taking out the trash? Never let your guard down.

[Nathan Palenski]

Putting new sand paper on the 12" disc sander I was spinning it with one hand while I patted it down with the other. The spinning hand got caught between the table (tilted down so to allow extra room to ease grit changing) and the fresh sand paper. It peeled my skin down to the red meat about the width of my fingernail.

Leave it to me to get hurt by an unplugged power tool. At this point if its got a "grit" I wear gloves around it.

[Karl Brogger]

Never let your guard down.

That there is the single greatest advice I have read on this forum.

[kevin loftus]

I was going to say the safest tool in the shop is
"the thing between your ears", until I read Cliff's
reply.:(

[rick carpenter]

Tools don't hurt people, people hurt people.

[Mike Cruz]

While one of my brothers was laying down some lick-'em and stick-'em tile this weekend, my other brother thought he would "help" by sweeping away the dust from the spot where the next tile went. He "forgot" that the carpet tack strip was there...it caught all four fingers (missed his thumb) and his palm. Hmmmmm, after 20 years those tack strips are as sharp as the day they were put in. Oh, blood dripped down every finger by the time he passed me...I was about 3 feet away.

[David Thompson 27577]

what is the safest tool? ......

The safest tool is the one that is never used.

[Steven Hart]

Keep at least 5" minimum safe distance between the head and butt at all times.

Violating this rule seems to be the cause of most accidents. :)

[Cody Colston]

A tool is only as safe as the work habits and skills of the operator.
In almost 40 years if machining, hobby, and home building I have never once been injured. Yet I do every single thing that all the so called experts tell you not to do. My pinkies are frequently mere milimeters from the blades, I never use a riving knife, I freehand on table saws, I almost never clamp anything on the DP, I work exhausted, I'll work fast, I'll have a beer while working - - yet nary a stich.

It's all in the habits and care you develop not the recipes you invoke.

A man after my own heart.

I do use a splitter, I use push sticks, I don't freehand on the TS, I don't drink and use my WW tools but...

I certainly applaud your independence and your confidence in your ability. If you have gone 40 years without an injury, more than luck is involved, contrary to the opinions of the safety weenies.

I also suspect if you cut off a finger next week that you won't be suing the saw manufacturer because they didn't include a flesh-sensing, blade stopping device on your saw.

It's called personal responsibility folks and it's becoming as scarce as hen's teeth. That's why I applaud Cliff..it's his shop and he's free to use his methods no matter how much they chafe others.

Yes, woodworking is inherently dangerous, duh! Anything that will cut, slice or shave hard wood will have no problem with flesh and bone. So, if you are scared of getting hurt, you probably should get another hobby because even if you use every single article of PPE and using every safety gizmo invented, you will still probably get injured at some point...if you actually do woodworking, that is. Tool collectors rarely get injured. ;)

[Gary Herrmann]

The safe tools in my shop are the ones I'm not currently using, and that are unplugged.

Hmm. Unless I fall over it, or back into it or stub my toe on the base or...

Ooh, wait. The safest tool to me is the one in my buddy's shop.

While I'm working in my shop.

And he's not in his shop.

Yeah. That's it.

[Alan Lightstone]

I got three stitches from a wiffle ball game once. Not tool related (unless you consider a plastic bat a tool), but clearly not something I'll admit to in public.

Wait, oops. Doh!!!

[John Coloccia]

I certainly applaud your independence and your confidence in your ability. If you have gone 40 years without an injury, more than luck is involved, contrary to the opinions of the safety weenies.


"Safety Weenie" is the new term for people who think it's a good idea to follow basic safe work habits and at least not drink in the shop. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me!
:cool:

[Steve Griffin]

30 years woodworking, no injuries worth talking about.

However, I did get a nasty cut from a banana once. Biting off the stem a sharp edge cut my lip and it took a long time to heal.

Also got a nasty injury to my privates when the drawstring to my sweats got wrapped around when I was in a hurry to take them off.

Those injuries remind me that no matter how careful I am in the shop, MR FREAK accident could strike anytime. It's the NON-FREAK accidents which I plan to never see.

-Steve

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I'm not sure of the safest, but apparently the most dangerous thing in my shop is an aluminum lawn chair-- after tripping over one and getting 20 stitches everthing else is rather mundane.

[Jim Heffner]

The really only "safest tool" is the one you are not using!

[Steve Bracken]

It's all in the head.

Adding a riving knife doesn't make a table saw safer, if, in adding it, the operator became more complacent .... same goes for fancy electronics on the Sawstop.

Safety devices are wonderful .... but they are not magic either. You still have to *not let your gaurd down*.

The best example is motoring, where numerous advances have made cars safer than ever, yet still idiots manage fatal wrecks every day. And you can see them about to happen. The guy weaving in and out of traffic, paper in one hand and Blackberry in the other is a guy who is lucky to arrive home. Sometimes his luck runs out.

So how do you slow him down?

One suggestion I liked is to remove all safety devices. No anti-lock brakes or traction control. Ban crumple zones and seatbelts then ....

Bolt a six inch steel spike to the center of the steering wheel. There, that should help :)

[Michael MacDonald]

30 years woodworking, no injuries worth talking about.

However, I did get a nasty cut from a banana once. Biting off the stem a sharp edge cut my lip and it took a long time to heal.


OK... I think this story wins... lethal, sharpened bannans. Should have a warning label.

[Karl Brogger]

One suggestion I liked is to remove all safety devices. No anti-lock brakes or traction control. Ban crumple zones and seatbelts then ....

Bolt a six inch steel spike to the center of the steering wheel. There, that should help :)

That's my line.

[David Peters]

In almost 40 years if machining, hobby, and home building I have never once been injured. Yet I do every single thing that all the so called experts tell you not to do. My pinkies are frequently mere milimeters from the blades, I never use a riving knife, I freehand on table saws, I almost never clamp anything on the DP, I work exhausted, I'll work fast, I'll have a beer while working - - yet nary a stich.

It's all in the habits and care you develop not the recipes you invoke.

When I was in college I heard a similar story about a completely different safety issue. My friend at the time was telling us, in an almost boastful way, how he had so much to drink the night before that he didn't even remember most of the drive home. He did however make note that he got there in only 60 minutes, and it's normally a 90 minute drive. He regularly drove drunk, but yet was convinced that he "did it well" and that he wasn't at risk.

I'm proud to say that I'm now 40 years old, and largely because of how much that story scared me, I have never once in my life gotten behind the wheel of a vehicle with even as much as a drop of alcohol in my system.

Call me a weenie if you will, but boy do I sleep well at night.

I try to take the same approach in the shop. If you avoid doing the things that make the environment more dangerous (like removing safety devices, operating while tired or impaired) you can't help but improve your chances of ending the day with 10 fingers.

[Steve Bracken]

That's my line.

I'm a sharing kind of a guy :)

[Steve Bracken]

When I was in college I heard a similar story about a completely different safety issue. My friend at the time was telling us, in an almost boastful way, how he had so much to drink the night before that he didn't even remember most of the drive home. He did however make note that he got there in only 60 minutes, and it's normally a 90 minute drive. He regularly drove drunk, but yet was convinced that he "did it well" and that he wasn't at risk.

I'm proud to say that I'm now 40 years old, and largely because of how much that story scared me, I have never once in my life gotten behind the wheel of a vehicle with even as much as a drop of alcohol in my system.

Call me a weenie if you will, but boy do I sleep well at night.

I try to take the same approach in the shop. If you avoid doing the things that make the environment more dangerous (like removing safety devices, operating while tired or impaired) you can't help but improve your chances of ending the day with 10 fingers.

"there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots; but there are no old, bold pilots"

It's about developing good, safe habits, and sticking to them.

I would suggest that folk who works safely are at very little risk with a guard removed, and those who don't will have incidents.

My suspicion has always been that accidents happen when routine is broken, or there is a distraction (or beer), and in those situations, safety devices work.

On, for example, a table saw, there are too many cuts required that need the standard guard removing, necessitating an expensive alternative or a very careful cut. I would buy a sliding table saw if I could afford one. Most of the techniques we develop for using our US table saws, to work safely, are designed out of the European saws. Even something as simple as standing outwith the kickback zone in a consideration the Europeans don't have to think about much, as they stand perpendicular to the blade.

They may, as some suggest, have nanny governments, but they lose fewer fingers.

[John Coloccia]

re: steel spikes, and safety devices making tools more dangerous

2009 had the lowest ever car accident fatality rate. When cars were less safe, the fatality rate was significantly higher. Uhm, so I guess that's not really the "best" example, or even a good example. In fact, you could almost call it a counter-example because that's what it is :D

As far as the other stuff goes, is there some sort of illness going around that compels people to use a tool unsafely the instant a safety device is in place? We can call it SMC Syndrome. Sheesh.

You guys make it sound like I'm pulling off some sort of magic trick by using a riving knife while somehow, AT THE SAME EXACT TIME, managing to keep my face out of the blade. To make matters worse, I have a SawStop. You would think that the instant I walk into my shop I would be compelled to stick my tongue into the nearest outlet! No, my mental abilities are formidable. I can routinely, and without even breaking a sweat, perform these and other seemingly impossible tasks. To the casual spectator, I'm just a guy in his mid 30's using some power tools. Little do they know the mental gymnastics required to conquer such impediments as:

1) The Push Stick!
2) The Blade Guard!
3) The Riving Knife! *GASP*

Go ahead and do whatever it is that works for you, guys. Maybe start your own thread instead of trying to derail this one. One thing I think we'd all appreciate, though, is can you please drop the attitude that the rest of us are somehow stupid or unstable, and thus unable to use a tool properly if a safety device is in place?

[Steve Bracken]

re: steel spikes, and safety devices making tools more dangerous

2009 had the lowest ever car accident fatality rate. When cars were less safe, the fatality rate was significantly higher. Uhm, so I guess that's not really the "best" example, or even a good example. In fact, you could almost call it a counter-example because that's what it is :D

As far as the other stuff goes, is there some sort of illness going around that compels people to use a tool unsafely the instant a safety device is in place? We can call it SMC Syndrome. Sheesh.

You guys make it sound like I'm pulling off some sort of magic trick by using a riving knife while somehow, AT THE SAME EXACT TIME, managing to keep my face out of the blade. To make matters worse, I have a SawStop. You would think that the instant I walk into my shop I would be compelled to stick my tongue into the nearest outlet! No, my mental abilities are formidable. I can routinely, and without even breaking a sweat, perform these and other seemingly impossible tasks. To the casual spectator, I'm just a guy in his mid 30's using some power tools. Little do they know the mental gymnastics required to conquer such impediments as:

1) The Push Stick!
2) The Blade Guard!
3) The Riving Knife! *GASP*

Go ahead and do whatever it is that works for you, guys. Maybe start your own thread instead of trying to derail this one. One thing I think we'd all appreciate, though, is can you please drop the attitude that the rest of us are somehow stupid or unstable, and thus unable to use a tool properly if a safety device is in place?

It was a small exaggeration to demonstrate a point :)

Safety, as I am sure we can all agree, is a combination of attitude and hardware. One without the other increases the dangers even for folk who are generally careful, and even with well designed machines.

One of the points about safety devices is that removing them, albeit temporarily, to perform some proceedure, is a positive action. That should increase the awareness to be extra careful, because you just removed a guard.

Unfortunately, there is also an attitude that we ARE careful, and that we don't need fancy riving knives and the like because "it's not the American Way, or somesuch.

Sawmill Creek appears to be inhabited by generally experienced posters who, as a group, probably have fewer accidents than a less well-informed public ..... but anyone is free to buy a table saw, no training, no awareness of the built-in dangers some of which should have been designed out years ago.

Oh well ... the debate informs :)

[John Coloccia]

Funny you should mention that. A friend of mine has atrocious table saw habits. He's been doing it the same way for 50 years. He's an occasional table saw user and does thing like crosscutting with the fence in place, not using any guards, freehand cuts, etc. He has a dinky little table saw from the 60s. It's a small 8", I think, but he still cuts big sheets of plywood on it freehand. LOL. He's not trying to be unsafe but he's never been taught how to do things properly and has mostly just been guessing of the years. He's never gotten injured on the TS.

However, he DID just have his first, serious kickback a couple of weeks ago. After he told me about it, I explained the mechanism for the kickback, what devices could help, why you shouldn't use a fence like that, etc. He looked at me like I punched him in the stomach and went all quiet thinking about how lucky he's been that he's avoided injury all this time.

As they say, if you're not good you'd better be lucky :D

[Joe Leigh]

I'm relatively new here and Ive learned quite a bit about table saw safety from you guys, but I gotta say some of these posts are downright frightening. Especially the ones about the banana and the lawn chair. This coming from a guy whose last table saw was a Shopsmith.....

[Karl Brogger]

Here's a question: Have you ever intentionally made a cut on a tablesaw that was almost sure to produce a kickback? :eek:

On average I have to do this about six times a job if I'm doing a whole house worth of cabinets.

[David Peters]

Here's a question: Have you ever intentionally made a cut on a tablesaw that was almost sure to produce a kickback? :eek:

On average I have to do this about six times a job if I'm doing a whole house worth of cabinets.

Can you describe one of those cuts? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

[Karl Brogger]

Can you describe one of those cuts? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

If you have a 24"x97" piece that needs to be 24"x96", (sides for tall cabinets). You set your fence at 7/8". There's no room to stick a thumb in there and hold the piece inbetween the fence and the blade, and you have so much to the left of the blade that in order to keep the piece going through squarely you can't go that far right anyway. So you just cut it off and stay out of the way. Better than half the time it just slowly gets tossed outta the saw, other times it come wingin' out at mach .85

[Michael MacDonald]

If you have a 24"x97" piece that needs to be 24"x96", (sides for tall cabinets). You set your fence at 7/8". There's no room to stick a thumb in there and hold the piece inbetween the fence and the blade, and you have so much to the left of the blade that in order to keep the piece going through squarely you can't go that far right anyway. So you just cut it off and stay out of the way. Better than half the time it just slowly gets tossed outta the saw, other times it come wingin' out at mach .85

perhaps a featherboard might eliminate the potential for kickback? and then once the stock gets past the blade, riving knife and pawls take over... if you have 'em...

at least I am picturing you standing position to be on the corner of the table, rather than behind the blade. that is one big honking piece to be running 7/8 through the TS...

[Karl Brogger]

perhaps a featherboard might eliminate the potential for kickback? and then once the stock gets past the blade, riving knife and pawls take over... if you have 'em...

at least I am picturing you standing position to be on the corner of the table, rather than behind the blade. that is one big honking piece to be running 7/8 through the TS...

Featherboard takes to long to set up, and I threw the riving knife and pawl setup in the dumpster the day the saw was unpacked.

I am at the left corner, that's why it doesn't matter if the piece comes shooting out. Its actually kind of entertaining to tell the truth. As far as big honking piece goes, well its the grist the mill demands. Until I'm out of the phone booth and have room for a Striebig its the way it has to be done. I could do a track saw or something of that nature, but its back to a time issue, this takes secs to setup and execute, by the time I'm done I'd still be making marks for the track saw.

[Brian Kincaid]

I could do a track saw or something of that nature, but its back to a time issue, this takes secs to setup and execute, by the time I'm done I'd still be making marks for the track saw.

Karl,
Make a trim jig with a circular saw / track saw. Sounds like you always end up with the same cut, screw a fence to the track(jig) and do it safely. No measuring required after you set it up.

-Brian

[Jerome Stanek]

I think the safest tool is the Mark 20 Eyeball