Follow-up on burned cuts on table saw

[Keith Albertson]

Last week I posted a thread about how my new Sawstop PCS saw was burning both sides of the cut when I was ripping maple. I felt like I had the saw aligned as good as I could possibly get. I was using a new Woodworker II blade. Just couldn't figure everything out. For those that followed and helped on that thread, here is the final answer, weird as it might be.

I got my old WWII blade back from sharpening by Forrest. When I used it, there was justa little less burning, but still a lot. When I checked the blade, there was 5 thousandths of wobble in the blade when it was mounted. This seemed excessive, since it looked like it had been ground when it was sharpened. As I wa scratching my head, I realized that when I bought the new WWII blade, I also bought and installed a 5 inch blade stabilizer with it.

So I took the blade stabilizer off. The 5 thousands wobble disappeared, as did the burned maple when I made my cuts. Has anybody else seen this happen?

After this, I checked the saw arbor for run-out, and it was about 1 thousandth, which I don't think I can make better. I think the sole culprit was the blade stabilizer.

I'll send it back to Forrest and ask them to grind it flat. (I did follow the directions and file off any burrs on the edges when I first installed it.)

Keith

[scott spencer]

Keith - That is a bit weird, but if it's cupped I supposed it could definitely effect the cut. How tight do you tighten down the arbor nut?

[Damon Stathatos]

You buy a stabilizer to stabilize your blade and it ends up being the cause of wobble?

I'd be curious as to what the guys at Forrest have to say about that.

[Gil Knowles]

Keith
I do not have any Forest blades but I have 4 top end Freud blades which I am very happy with.
I was talking to the Freud rep. and he did not recommend using blade stabilizers. I forget what his reason was though.

gil

[Keith Albertson]

Gil, What do you use for rip and crosscuts from Freud? I have a Sawstop, and I think I'm supposed to avoid coated blades.

Scott, I don't think I overtightened the nut. I never had a problem with overtightening on my other saws.

I'll let everyone know what Forrest says. It makes sense that if the stabilizer is warped that it could temporarily warp the blade when it was tightened up abainst it.

Keith

[Bill Huber]

So you have a thin kerf blade?

I guess my question is why a thin kerf on a Saw Stop, it has the power to run a full kerf blade doesn't it?

I have a Jet contractor saw and I use full kerf blade only.

[glenn bradley]

I hope you have found the culprit. I just want to clarify; when you say stabilizer, we are talking about a pair of stabilizers, right? I used to use stabilizers because I thought they helped with thin kerf blades. Once I got the saw dialed in I found that they are unnecessary on a well tuned saw. Just food for thought.

[Dave MacArthur]

Thin kerf blades are nice on any saw, power issue or no, if they can be stabilized. Less material wasted, less power transferred to the wood, less heat generated. If I could have a sword that could stabilize a single-atom edge somehow, the weight of a feather could slice it right through a board. The single-atom razor edge is the mecca of all sharpening ;)

[Gil Knowles]

Keith
I have the following Freud Blades.
LU88R thin kerf cross cut
LU87R thin kerf rip
LU74R glue line rip
LU80R Ultimate plywood & melamine, I mainly use hardwoods and the Freud rep. recommended this blade over the ultimate cutoff blade. I have a Delta hybrid saw and have used these blades for about 4 years now they all are very good. I have cut 2 inch maple and ash with no problems a bit slower feed rate with the full kerf blades
These all have the permashield coating.
I believe that the only coated blades you should not use with the sawstop are all steel blades, I believe that carbide blades are OK since the coating is not on the carbide.

Gil

[Keith Albertson]

No, I have not been using a thin kerf blade. I was given to understand that blade stabilizers would make even a normal kerf blade give a smoother cut.

When I bought the Forrest stabilizer from Woodcraft there was only one in the box, so I thought that was all I needed. Do I need two? Did I get ripped off?

If I put a stabilizer (this thing is 1/8 inch thick) against the arbor, then my zero clearance insert will be off. I guess I just won't use the stabilizer. But I've already noticed that the saw is nosier without the stabilizer.

[Andrew Nemeth]

When I purchased my first Woodworker II (full kerf) I also purchased a blade stabalizer as was demonstrated at woodworking shows I had attended. You only use one stabalizer and IIRC it is to be mounted on the outside of blade (between the blade and the nut). I used to swear by it. Odd thing is, I just found it burried under something that has not moved in a LONG time. I have no idea when I stopped using it and apparently I have not missed it! The next chance I get I will have to make some test cuts to compare.

[Rick Potter]

I get more burn with my Forrest WWII since it was sharpened by a local shop. I understand that Forrest uses less clearance around the teeth, and was told that the sharpener cut off a bit more when sharpening, leaving me with very little clearance to the body of the blade. I assume Forrest sharpening would have been the way to go.

I have had no trouble with my Freud blades.

Rick Potter

[scott spencer]

No, I have not been using a thin kerf blade. I was given to understand that blade stabilizers would make even a normal kerf blade give a smoother cut.

When I bought the Forrest stabilizer from Woodcraft there was only one in the box, so I thought that was all I needed. Do I need two? Did I get ripped off?

If I put a stabilizer (this thing is 1/8 inch thick) against the arbor, then my zero clearance insert will be off. I guess I just won't use the stabilizer. But I've already noticed that the saw is nosier without the stabilizer.

There are a couple of types of stiffener/stabilizer/dampeners...those that are a single steel disk, and those that are intended to work in pairs. If yours came as a single disk, it's intended to be used an oversized arbor washer by itself.

I think there may be some profit incentive involved with the recommendations for these things. Unless you've got a runout/vibration issue to correct, you really don't need a stabilizer at all if the saw and blade are running true. I've never noticed a difference with or without the stiffener on even a good thin kerf blade.

[Keith Albertson]

Andrew - Please let me know if you notice a difference between the stabilizer and non-stabilizer cuts. If there isn't a difference, I may not go to the trouble of trying to get my stabilizer trued-up.

I have noticed a difference in sound with the stabilizer. My cuts are much quieter with the stabilizer, so I must be getting some blade vibration without it. But the burn marks are all gone without it.

Gil - thanks for the blade information. From what I've read here on the forum, lots of folks like the glue line rip. I'll call sawstop and be sure I can use the blade before I invest, though.

Keith