Need Help on Identifying Planemaker

[David Weaver]

Good morning / afternoon folks. I bought a couple of more woodies last week because, well, I had some time on my hands at the inlaws and could do a proper search on wood planes and find some more good candidates for cheap.

One of them someone painted with varnish or lacquer, but I didn't care much because it was try plane sized (seems more difficult to find in good shape for some reason), didn't have cracked cheeks and the iron looked like it was at least half there, and it was $10 and the shipping was cheap, too. The guy selling it in the description said "it would make a nice doorstop". Worst case, I end up with a double iron for about $20.

Fast forward to this morning, the iron had a lot of scale on it, and I usually don't just throw irons to phosphoric acid, but this one needed it - a lot of really thick scale on it. I left it in the acid overnight, and when I came downstairs this morning, the acid had mostly overflowed the jar with the chipbreaker. I'm left with what must be wrought iron, because it's woodgrain, and to my surprise, the chipbreaker has laminated hard steel on it, and the lamination is done quite well.

So here's the real question, the plane body is unmarked, but very dense with rings that are on the order of 20 per inch or more, and the iron is square except for two coves at the top corners. It says "HAN....." It might be a D or a B after H, and it has the standard "cast steel warranted" below it. Whoever used it originally was polite enough never to strike the iron to adjust the plane. It's wrought iron, no evidence of a hammer strike, and half used up. Rather well sharpened compared to a lot of older planes I get, too - a very tidy bevel under the scale.

That's all I can read on it. Does anyone have any idea who the maker of the iron is? It's probably older than the other woodies I have given that the chipbreaker is laminated. It's not a big deal if I can't figure it out, it's going to be a user, and I'll have to debate about stripping the lacquer - it's not hurting anything, and sanding it all off will make it look like a plane that has been sanded hard.

[David Keller NC]

David - I think you've an iron made by the Hancock Tool company - I've one in a jointer that matches your description (i.e., a square-topped iron with two quarter-circles taken out of each corner on the top). My iron is also laminated, though it says "Extra Steel" below the maker's mark instead of "cast steel". My jointer is also unmarked on the body of the plane.

Unfortunately, I've not found any other information on the Hancock Tool company. Makers of American Wooden Planes lists a D. Hancock working around 1830, but no Hancock Tool company. My plane is very unlikely to be that old - it's in way too good shape.

One comment about laminated irons - this practice seems to have gone on long after one might expect. I've a very large Ohio Tool panel raiser with a 5" wide iron that's definitely wrought iron with a laminated steel edge.

A comment about removing the laquer - if you want to preserve the old look of the plane (i.e., you don't want to sand it - I wouldn't either), you can easily remove the laquer with laquer thinner. However, my guess is that you might find that the coating is shellac, in which case 100% ethanol will easily remove it.

[David Weaver]

David, thanks for the heads up. Your description fits the iron.

I hadn't thought about shellac, given it's not cracked. I'll put some alcohol on it later to see what happens.

As far as the iron goes, i'm not surprised that the iron is laminated. I've actually only had one woody that wasn't. I'm surprised that the chipbreaker is laminated. I don't know that I've paid that much attention to my other chipbreakers because they haven't been rusted as badly as this one, and didn't lose nearly as much base metal to the cleaning process, which has generally just been a brass wire wheel and a follow-up oxpho blue to "make the discoloration disappear" without doing much work.

Pictures to follow of the chipbreaker - yours is probably the same.

[george wilson]

I used to have a few plane irons,Marples,I think,that were made only about 30 years ago. They were laminated,just like older ones.

[David Weaver]

Here are the pictures.

Again, lamination on the iron not surprising.

But chipbreaker, I'm not sure I ever paid enough attention to see how many of them are laminated - I don't think most of mine are. All but two of my japanese planes are laminated chipbreaker, but my understanding is that on basic planes and intermediates (kanna), they are not. On my cheapies, they definitely are not. Not surprised that the iron is laminated. Steel is cheap now, so it's more of a quality differentiator.

So the comment about being surprised about the laminated chipbreaker boils down to this - I'm not assuming with an old bench plane that it's a quality issue like it is with japanese planes, but rather an age issue - that the steel was expensive enough when this plane was made to make laminating the chipbreaker worthwhile.

I don't know when they stopped doing that. I don't think my other bench planes approach that age - most are ohio tool company or some brand that is the same thing (like solon) - bench planes that is - because they are common and cheap.

I'm sure some will cringe at the acidified look of the iron and chipbreaker - I could've oiled them and left most of the scale on them, but I really don't like having all of that garbage on the irons.

[David Weaver]

While we're at it, JT Brown, Baltimore. Anyone have any data on when they were making planes? I got a 28 inch jointer, single iron. I haven't gotten the iron out of the acid yet, just know it was tight enough in the plane body that I'm either going to have to relieve the sides of the plane or belt sand some width off the iron.

The jointer was the most out of flat plane I've ever seen without there being twist - it was probably a full eighth out, and uniformly convex, no noticeable wear on the bottom, so it wasn't like it was worn that way. It pains me to put a plane on the power jointer, but this one needed it and I followed it by a flat lap.

Anyway, it appears to be pretty cheaply made compared to some of the other planes, and it looks plain and what's on there in contour looks to be machine done.

That isn't going to affect how it performs. I kind of wish it was a double iron plane, but the mouth on it is pretty tight, much tighter than my double iron planes.

I have two other jointers, but I wanted a third out of laziness. The other two have their quirks, both need wedges and one needs a lot more, but I've been using both of them for a while. They'll get wedges when I'm done making infill planes.

So, question is, is JT Brown a budget maker? Anyone have a time frame?

[David Keller NC]

Field guide to the makers of American Wooden Planes notes that JT Brown was making planes in Baltimore, MD. from 1824 to 1843. One of the imprints is a script-style, the other all-caps. It's a rare maker (4 stars in the guide).

BTW - that's definitely a Hancock Tool Company iron. The imprint matches mine almost exactly.

[David Weaver]

The plane I got has a script imprint on the front of the body. That's older than I would've guessed.

It's not a poorly made plane, i guess, but it does look very "uniform" for a plane of that age, and the curves around the tote handhold terminate in lines, making it look machine done rather than hand rasped. I guess if the planemaker had a purpose made shave like the one Solon Rust used in the WPINCAII book, it would look like that.

I guess if it's not a common plane, I'll remove width from the iron instead of relieving the sides of the mouth. I think the iron might be a Barton (check that...it's Pearson, another one I haven't had before).

This whole wood plane revival is really the first time I've paid attention to the maker of the plane (for the old woodies) and not just the iron. I had some delusions that I would make a few planes from scavenged irons, but that delusion ended when it was obvious the planes can be gotten for $25 or less, and a QS blank of wood to do the same thing, in a wood less desirable (for planes) than beech is in the $75 range.

Thanks for the help, always nice to know things even when it doesn't change what the plane's going to do.

[David Weaver]

Field guide to the makers of American Wooden Planes notes that JT Brown was making planes in Baltimore, MD. from 1824 to 1843. One of the imprints is a script-style, the other all-caps. It's a rare maker (4 stars in the guide).

BTW - that's definitely a Hancock Tool Company iron. The imprint matches mine almost exactly.

By the way, does a four star rating imply anything? I'm not a collector, so I don't know what that means. I hope it doesn't mean "don't joint the bottom and screw with the iron width".

But if it does, in a way, it makes it all the more satisfying to use it. :)

I did get it sharpened, and it's nice to use - even after all of these years, the wedge fit is very tidy and there's no chatter, not even on thick shavings.

[David Keller NC]

By the way, does a four star rating imply anything? I'm not a collector, so I don't know what that means. I hope it doesn't mean "don't joint the bottom and screw with the iron width".

But if it does, in a way, it makes it all the more satisfying to use it. :)

Yes, AMWP lists plane rarity by a 4-star system. FF means "frequently found", and the planes get increasingly rare the more stars it gets. 4 stars is the rarest rating.

Rarity isn't the only factor that goes into a plane's value. An early manufacture date is also important. Any American plane made by an 18th century maker, for example, is quite valuable as a collector's item.

Bench planes from the 19th century aren't all that valuable, but there are exceptions. Planes in primo condition (nearly unused) by individual makers in the first half of the 19th century are worth somewhere between $125 to $250, depending on type and the maker. Certain kinds of wooden planes such as centerwheel plows are also very valuable, despite being made by the big factories. A boxwood centerwheel Sandusky with its original irons went for $12k a few years back.

And yes, I'm afraid soaking the iron in a rust-removal solution and jointing/planing the bottom, inserting a mouthpiece in the sole, completely re-soleing the bottom of the plane, or in the worst possible case, sanding and refinishing the surface will make it worthless as a collector.

However, at most you've lost perhaps $100 in value, so no big deal. If you wish to keep the iron the same width but need to loosen the wedge mortise because of shrinkage of the stock, I recommend a side float of the type that Lie-Nielsen makes. With this tool, you can remove some wood on either side of the blade/wedge, and the repair isn't obtrusive (nor does it significantly lower the value of a collector's item if done carefully).

[David Weaver]

Yeah, this is just a plain old bench plane. The iron was spotted with rust (but not bad), so I can't think itself it would've been valuable left alone, but there are certainly things I could've done to it that would've been less obvious. I'll probably blue it, anyway. In 10 years, nobody will know the difference because it's a lot better user than my other jointers since tuning it today, and it's going to see its share of action.

I'll trade $100 in value to have the plane worth using any day of the week. It's probably in better than average condition for a plane of its age, and it's not been used much that I can tell, but it's got crud on the surface on the front and back, but none on the tote :confused:. Kind of puzzling, full length iron, etc.

Guess I didn't figure any bench planes had value outside of two digits, either. Guy who sold it was from WV, $25 BIN. I guess the pictures weren't good enough to satisfy other people. I'm not worried about buying two planes to get odds on having one of them be good. Someone did ask if there was a mark on it:

Q: Can you please tell me if there are any names stamped on the front end of this plane? Thank you.
A: NONE THAT I CAN SEE

Description said "marked", though, I wonder if it was a creeker who asked. Ebay is a confusing joint.

Please excuse the bench in the pictures, I'm trying to finish a panel plane, it's a total disaster area.

I've got the cheek floats (and the side floats), after experimenting with narrowing the iron on a belt sander, I don't like the difference in the rate the iron wastes off vs. the lamination, too much chance to get it way out of parallel, and this plane has really hefty sides, so a little float work won't affect it. Back and forth with the decisions I guess.

[David Weaver]

The plane body with shellac, that had the iron in the above pictures is marked Casey and Co., Auburn NY.

Never heard of that one, either, but google shows it to be a later maker (later than JT Brown) and common. Whoever had it before me filled the cracks on the toe with filler before they covered it with shellac. :rolleyes:

It's an OK user, lots of weight, but with a huge mouth. Good that it's a double iron.