grinder wheel replacement

[Roger Chandler]

My 8 inch slow speed grinder came with a 60 grit gray wheel and a 120 grit white aluminum oxide wheel. It has worked pretty well for the last year, but as of late I am noticing that the wheel loads up with metal a lot faster than it used to, and I seem to be having to use the diamond wheel dresser a good bit more often. Is this due to some change in the consistency of the wheel?

Also, if I purchase a new wheel, I want to get one that will give a good grind with as minimal tool wear as possible. Some turners use the pink wheels, and some blue wheels. Which is best and why? I have both high speed steel, and cryogenic steel gouges, and want a stone that is true running. Is there a better quality wheel from Norton for example, or from some other source?

Your help would be much appreciated!

[Tony Pridmore]

A friend is using this diamond wheel (http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=25960&ss=b58b7a39-4af8-44dd-a0d9-96c86acd8264) on his 8" grinder. It removes very little steel and leaves a fairly polished finish. I haven't asked him about pro's and con's so I can't say much more than that. May be worth checking out.

[Thom Sturgill]

Biggest problem I see is that the wheels generally available have 1" holes and the 8" grinders have 5/8" arbors. The plastic inserts are not stabile, although glueing them in place does help. I just bought a steel insert to try. The wheel still wobbles some as it just plain is not true. Our club president bought one of the diamond wheels and likes it and I liked the looks (if not the price) as it ran very true.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - I kept the 120 grit wheel that came with my slow speed and replaced the other with a 150 grit. I like the 150 because you can do a real quick touch up without removing very much metal. Don't know how true they run out of the box cause I use the Oneway wheel balancing system and balanced mine.

Here is a link to 8" wheel I picked up: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10088&filter=grinding%20wheels

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - I kept the 120 grit wheel that came with my slow speed and replaced the other with a 150 grit. I like the 150 because you can do a real quick touch up without removing very much metal. Don't know how true they run out of the box cause I use the Oneway wheel balancing system and balanced mine.

Here is a link to 8" wheel I picked up: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10088&filter=grinding%20wheels

Steve,

Thank you for your reply. You always seem to come through when I have posted a question, and that means a lot to me. I was wondering about the tool turning blue with a finer grit like 150. Do you think the finer grit, being less aggressive is cooler on the tool itself, and do you think it would be good for cryogenic treated HHS?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - the tool I use the most is a Doug Thompson 5/8" V bowl gouge. That's a cryogenic steel I believe - and I have no problem at all sharpening it or any of my regular HSS tools. I even have some carbon steel tools and while they can blue real easily - I find that the 150 grit wheel works well because you use a very light touch when sharpening. Course, we all do things differently and what works for me may not work for others - but I think it will as long as you are freshening an edge and not grinding a new profile!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - the tool I use the most is a Doug Thompson 5/8" V bowl gouge. That's a cryogenic steel I believe - and I have no problem at all sharpening it or any of my regular HSS tools. I even have some carbon steel tools and while they can blue real easily - I find that the 150 grit wheel works well because you use a very light touch when sharpening. Course, we all do things differently and what works for me may not work for others - but I think it will as long as you are freshening an edge and not grinding a new profile!

Thanks Steve,

That is good information, and I think I will most likely get the 150 grit wheel from Rockler. I took the wheel off the grinder this evening and read the labels on both sides, and it did not have any arrows or instructions that would indicate a rotational direction, so I turned the wheel around and re-surfaced the edge, hoping that might help some, but I might just be doing an exercise in futility. I might not make any difference at all, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

Do you know anything about the blue Norton SG or 3x wheels? All I can ascertain is that the 3x has about 30% of the grit that makes these wheels have superior sharpening characteristics, and the SG has about 50% of it.

that is what I read, but don't know if it is true in real time experience, but I am looking to get a keen edge and not wear away my tools too fast; and I am looking for the wheel to run true [I don't have a balancer for the wheels]

By the way, any other turner out there is welcome to chime in with your experience with these wheels. Many of you have much more experience than I, and I can learn from you, and desire your expertise!

[Chris Stolicky]

The 3x wheels are very good for sharpening turning tools. Doug Thompson has said on many occasions that all he uses is the 80 grit K hardness wheel to sharpen his tools (could probably find it on a search). I have one of these wheels and it does work well. It is very hard and I found that I needed a good diamond truing tool to true the wheel. The ~$10 version that you see at places like Woodcraft would not work. I recently read on another forum that someone said his version of the K hardness actually seems harder to him than the K rating indicates.

The down fall with the latest Norton wheels is the cheap plastic bushings they come with. I have had difficultly myself with the bushings and have also read several posts of others' also having issues. I also have a Norton 100 grit J hardness that I use and it works well for 'sharpening' but does groove easily. It, too, also has the same cheap bushings.

I hope this helps.

[Jerry Marcantel]

A friend is using this diamond wheel (http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=25960&ss=b58b7a39-4af8-44dd-a0d9-96c86acd8264) on his 8" grinder. It removes very little steel and leaves a fairly polished finish. I haven't asked him about pro's and con's so I can't say much more than that. May be worth checking out.
Does anyone know if a diamond lapidary grinder would work. They're water cooled, have an 80 and 120 grit, and grinds rock without issues. Just wondering if the diamond would cause the wheel to load up on metal. Anyone has any info, it sure would be appeciated...
I have 2 of these lapidary grinders. One is a Lortone with 2 ea 8" wheels, and a Highland Park with 4 ea 8" wheels, plus a buffer on one end. None are for sale, just gloating I guess, but more like trying to find out if mine can grind metal without messing them up. These wheels cost upwards of 800 bucks each. Sure would hate to destroy one prematurely................. Jerry (in Tucson)

[Roger Chandler]

The 3x wheels are very good for sharpening turning tools. Doug Thompson has said on many occasions that all he uses is the 80 grit K hardness wheel to sharpen his tools (could probably find it on a search). I have one of these wheels and it does work well. It is very hard and I found that I needed a good diamond truing tool to true the wheel. The ~$10 version that you see at places like Woodcraft would not work. I recently read on another forum that someone said his version of the K hardness actually seems harder to him than the K rating indicates.

The down fall with the latest Norton wheels is the cheap plastic bushings they come with. I have had difficultly myself with the bushings and have also read several posts of others' also having issues. I also have a Norton 100 grit J hardness that I use and it works well for 'sharpening' but does groove easily. It, too, also has the same cheap bushings.

I hope this helps.


Thanks Chris,

I measured my grinder arbor, and it measures 5/8" and I am not sure if the Norton wheels come only with the larger holes and bushings. I know the current wheel on my grinder has a bushing in it as well, and maybe that is what causes the wheel to not run true.

You spoke of the hardness of the Norton wheels. Is the SG wheel harder than the 3X?

I appreciate all the responses I am getting, as they are helpful for eliminating the "buy it before you try it syndrome."

[Don Geiger]

The two best things you can do to make your existing or new wheels perform opitmally are:

1) Do not use the plastic bushings that are commonly supplied with wheels to make up the difference in the diameter of the shaft to the i.d. of the hole in the wheels. Either buy wheels that fit your axle without bushings or use steel bushings to make up the difference.

2) Use a wheel truing device (not just a dresser) to make the wheels truly concentric to the axle as they are mounted and at operating speed. Once the wheels are concntric to the axle, the grinder vibration will be significantly reduced and your tools will not bounce when applied to the surface for sharpening. You will also get a better quality- smoother bevel and cutting edge. I have never seen a case where, when wheels have been accurately trued, that gramimetric balancing was necessary.

There has been quite a bit of discussion on this forum on this subject as of late. Search this forum for "Wheel Truing" of "Wheel Truing and Dressing" to see what has been said.


Don Geiger

[Terry Achey]

FWIW, I purchased the diamond wheel months ago and I'm very pleased with the results. It's great for touch up sharpening. Not intended for taking off large amounts of steel. runs cool, very fine grind. I like it.

Terry

[Roger Chandler]

FWIW, I purchased the diamond wheel months ago and I'm very pleased with the results. It's great for touch up sharpening. Not intended for taking off large amounts of steel. runs cool, very fine grind. I like it.

Terry

Thanks Terry, I wondered about the diamond wheel and if it was okay for shaping a new grind. Your post has cleared that up for me. As of now, I am leaning towards the 150 grit wheel Steve mentioned and a Norton 3x blue wheel in 100 grit to replace the two wheels I have now.

I appreciate all the feed-back from everyone - THANKS!!!

[Belton Garvin]

I attend a demo by David Ellsworth last weekend and he gave some very good information on this subject. He uses a 100/120 grit wheel for most of his tool sharpening. His biggest reasoning is the formation of the bur on the tool edge. Using a 60/80 grit wheel creates a really large bur and when hogging lots of material off it tends to chip the bur off quickly leaving a real jagged edge to cut with. He had a friend that had a diamond wheel and it created a really sharp tool...but almost no bur. His cutting method uses the bur extensively and without the bur it didn't cut well at all.

I haven't figured out what size bur I like yet but I tend to use the 120 wheel on my slow speed grinder unless I am reshaping a tool...then I use the 80.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

My 8 inch slow speed grinder came with a 60 grit gray wheel and a 120 grit white aluminum oxide wheel. It has worked pretty well for the last year, but as of late I am noticing that the wheel loads up with metal a lot faster than it used to, and I seem to be having to use the diamond wheel dresser a good bit more often. Is this due to some change in the consistency of the wheel?

Also, if I purchase a new wheel, I want to get one that will give a good grind with as minimal tool wear as possible. Some turners use the pink wheels, and some blue wheels. Which is best and why? I have both high speed steel, and cryogenic steel gouges, and want a stone that is true running. Is there a better quality wheel from Norton for example, or from some other source?

Your help would be much appreciated!

Roger as the wheel gets smaller the circumference becomes less also and that could very well be the reason your wheel does load up more now then before, not certain of that though.

The color of the wheels does not really tell you how hard or soft the wheels are, more the material that's used to make the wheel, like you can get white wheels that are harder or softer.

The standard thing with grinding wheels is, that the harder the steel the softer the wheel should be, as the wheel will dull faster with the harder material, you do need sharper grit to come free to keep on grinding the hard material away.

The harder wheels will dull and load up and then heat up with harder materials, so if you have different materials to grind you should also have different wheel hardnesses if you want the optimum performance that is.

If your present wheels perform reasonable and not groove to bad I would get a similar wheel, maybe just a 100 grit rather than the 120.

An extra grinder with the wheels for just the HSS or your other tools is another way to go if you like :)

[Roger Chandler]

I attend a demo by David Ellsworth last weekend and he gave some very good information on this subject. He uses a 100/120 grit wheel for most of his tool sharpening. His biggest reasoning is the formation of the bur on the tool edge. Using a 60/80 grit wheel creates a really large bur and when hogging lots of material off it tends to chip the bur off quickly leaving a real jagged edge to cut with. He had a friend that had a diamond wheel and it created a really sharp tool...but almost no bur. His cutting method uses the bur extensively and without the bur it didn't cut well at all.

I haven't figured out what size bur I like yet but I tend to use the 120 wheel on my slow speed grinder unless I am reshaping a tool...then I use the 80.

Hello Belton,
We had David Ellsworth just before you guys in Tidewater, and I remember him talking about the burr during his hollowing. He did a segment on sharpening for our demo at the end of the day, but I could not stay for that part of the demo. Thanks for replying.

[Roger Chandler]

Leo Vanderloo said

"The standard thing with grinding wheels is, that the harder the steel the softer the wheel should be, as the wheel will dull faster with the harder material, you do need sharper grit to come free to keep on grinding the hard material away.

The harder wheels will dull and load up and then heat up with harder materials, so if you have different materials to grind you should also have different wheel hardnesses if you want the optimum performance that is."

Thanks Leo,

I read on Packards Website that the Norton SG wheel comes in "K" hardness, and the 3x wheel is "I" hardness, which is softer. even though I have 3 grinders, I do not have room in my little shop to have them all available to grind on, so two 6 inch grinders stay put away [except when I sharpen mower blades once a year]

Since I have a combination of regular HHS [sorby] and cryogenic treated HHS, I want to find a fairly optimal combination of wheels that will work well for both. I was thinking about the 150 grit white wheel that Steve Schlumpf mentioned above in this thread and a 100 grit Norton 3x.

Do you think that would a good combination, or should I go for a 120 grit wheel and the Norton 3X?

[Reed Gray]

There was a long discussion on the Woodcraft Diamond grinding wheel on the Australian Woodworking forum a few months ago. I called them up to ask some questions about it, and I must have been the first person to ask these questions.

One, is how do you clean the wheel when it loads up? They didn't know, and had no info on it.

Another was eventually, it will groove and get some run out as all wheels do, and how do you fix that? Again they had no answer. I should call them back to see if they found anything out.

Diamond is made for grinding carbide, but not steel. Main reason is that it tends to load up, and be difficult to clean up.

My CBN (a material that is made for grinding steel) wheels that I use are similar to the diamond wheel that Woodcraft has in that it is 3/16 inch of grinding matrix bonded to an aluminum core. No balancing or truing needed when new. Cleaning the wheel is done with some very hard aluminum oxide sticks. I do take them back to be trued up about once a year. Cost it $300 per 8 inch wheel. My 80 grit wheel is 4 years old and still has over half of the grinding matrix on the wheel. It gives a super burr on my scrapers, and a very clean surface on my gouges. I do use a 150 grit wheel for my gouges and other tools.

robo hippy

[Roger Chandler]

There was a long discussion on the Woodcraft Diamond grinding wheel on the Australian Woodworking forum a few months ago. I called them up to ask some questions about it, and I must have been the first person to ask these questions.

One, is how do you clean the wheel when it loads up? They didn't know, and had no info on it.

Another was eventually, it will groove and get some run out as all wheels do, and how do you fix that? Again they had no answer. I should call them back to see if they found anything out.

Diamond is made for grinding carbide, but not steel. Main reason is that it tends to load up, and be difficult to clean up.

My CBN (a material that is made for grinding steel) wheels that I use are similar to the diamond wheel that Woodcraft has in that it is 3/16 inch of grinding matrix bonded to an aluminum core. No balancing or truing needed when new. Cleaning the wheel is done with some very hard aluminum oxide sticks. I do take them back to be trued up about once a year. Cost it $300 per 8 inch wheel. My 80 grit wheel is 4 years old and still has over half of the grinding matrix on the wheel. It gives a super burr on my scrapers, and a very clean surface on my gouges. I do use a 150 grit wheel for my gouges and other tools.

robo hippy


Reed,

Coming from a very experienced turner such as yourself, I feel like I am getting really good info. I wanted to get a sense of the experiences from others, so that I did not have to go through the "buy it before you try it" scenario.

I ordered two wheels from Hartville Tool today, one a Norton SG in 100 grit ["K" hardness] and the other a 120 grit Norton 3x ["I" hardness] so I am hoping these will do what I want in sharpening a combination of HHS tools and cryogenically treated HHS.

I understand they are supposed to run cooler than white or pink wheels, and will not load up as easily, and will not overheat and blue your tools.