New Powermatic PM2000 Review w/pics

[Joe Leigh]

Well as I posted previously I had a Grizzly 1023RL on order since February. The order got delayed twice which got me to thinking about other options. The more I read here on the Creek about other top line saws the more I realized the difference in quality and features that I didn't want to be without. I had my search narrowed down to 2 saws, the PM2000 and the Jet Deluxe Xacta. With about a $500 difference between the two it was a tough choice. $500 buys a lot of lumber.
I decided on the PM2000 thanks to a lot of input from guys here, especially Van Huskey who owns this saw and provided a lot of insight.

Well just 4 days after the order was placed a 50ft trailer pulls up to the house. He had a liftgate and a pallet truck. Residential lift gate service is included for no charge on Powermatic saws. Problem being he couldn't back the trailer up to my garage where I wanted it and the bluestone driveway only allowed us to get the pallet jack about halfway up before bogging down. Anyway here she sits
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1737.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1738.jpg

Here are the rest of the boxes included on the skid

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1739.jpg

My shop is in the basement so I needed to break this saw down to the bare bones in order to handle it. This saw can be described in one word, massive.
I removed the cast iron top which weighed well over 100lbs, and also the motor, which was an easy 80lbs with its cast iron mounting flange.
Here's what I was left with:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1740.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1741.jpg

Even with all that weight removed the cabinet and base, along with the casters and trunnion assembly still weighed over 200lbs. Getting this monster down a narrow flight of stairs was no easy job.

Here's a pic of the beast in my shop

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1743.jpg

One of the first things I wanted to see was how difficult the caster system was to use. I heard stories about how you can only lift the saw 1/16" or so, so I tried it out. Fully extended I got a shade over 3/8". Plenty for any floor.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1744.jpg

Cont.

[Van Huskey]

WOW, it came a lot quicker than you were expecting no?

[Don Whitten]

Congrats on your new saw, enjoy.

[Joe Leigh]

Once I got the saw wiped down it was time to clean up the extension wings and add a coat of wax.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1742.jpg

I was really impressed with the level of finish of the ground surfaces, they were outstanding. Much nicer than both the SawStop PCS and Delta UNI I saw at the distributor near me.
Next step was to remount the table and do the aligning.
I'm glad I broke the saw down to move it as it gave me a chance to see in detail exactly how the saw is assembled.
This takes the mystery out if any repairs/replacements are needed in the future.

Time to put my dial indicator to work. I measured the arbor plate for runout. No needle deflection at all. None. Very impressive.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1746.jpg

I mounted the new blade and went about setting the blade parallel with the left hand miter slot.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1747.jpg

Now I knew this would be time consuming because I had removed the table but it took more time than even I thought. Using a dial indicator and a rubber mallet (never thought I'd use those two words in the same sentence). It was like a caveman trying to split the atom. 1/2 hour of trial and error later I finally achieved the result I was after, .001.
I know there a some here that scoff at this notion of trying to make things that perfect, especially if you're just working with wood, but if you have the tools and the time why not try? In either case it was a great learning experience.

After the setup it was time to wax the main table and install the extension wings.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1745.jpg

Guess I got lucky with the wings as they were very flat. All the hardware lined up perfectly and I had the wings mounted and flush in less than 1/2hr.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1748.jpg

The table top with wings is a massive 30 1/2" deep by 42" wide. That's some serious iron. A couple of other details about the top compared to the Jet saw, the main table is nicely beveled front and rear, as are both extension wings, as you can see in the pic. Also both wings are radiused on both outside corners (there is a left and a right wing). Nice detail.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1749.jpg

I fired it up and vibration was non existent. Purred like a kitten. There aren't enough superlatives to describe how silky smooth this saw was.
The only shortcoming I found so far was the difficulty in adjusting both the 90deg and 45deg stops. Both were very hard to do with tight access. Glad this only has to be done once.

Well that's as far as I can go at this point. The fence rails are back ordered till the last week in June. I'll post some more pics then and give some final thoughts.
Any and all questions are welcome. I'll do my best to help if I can.

[Van Huskey]

I see now, they just shipped the saw without the rails. At first I was having Deja Vue since the first blade on my saw was a Freud P410 as well!

I am glad you are seeing the same things I saw in the PM particularly the surface grind, I often want to mention this but just expect it to be dismissed but I swear it is better than any of the current SS and Delta saws. I am sure you can't wait to make sawdust!

[Joe Leigh]

WOW, it came a lot quicker than you were expecting no?

Yeah! Ordered Tuesday delivered Friday!
I was pumped. I spent most of last night going downstairs just to look at it.
Thanks again.

[David Nelson1]

Nice saw Joe! I was drooling over a Craftsman 3/4 cabinet saw. It's OK and will last for many a year before it needs replaced or I get an urge to spend money again. I was a bit disappointed in the finish and the way the fence and table extension fit. Just goes to show you get what you pay for. I also was one that thought that close enough was OKfor a wood working operation, till I tried to glue up a few boards and they where outta square by 3/16 of an inch over 32 in span. That was a lesson I wont forget. LOL

[Bruce Page]

Congrats Joe. I helped a friend setup his PM2000, it was dead on too.
Very nice machine.

[Ben Davis]

I've used the SS and Uni's a bunch, and I thought both those saws had a very nice fit and finish. Saying this thing is far above those really speaks to the quality of the PM tools! I hope you make great use of the new saw! You certainly got about the best one out there.

[Paul McGaha]

Joe,

Very nice table saw. Good job on the setup too. What type of fence?

Powermatic is my first choice in stationary tools. Love the mustard.

My first two Powermatics were a 719 Hollow Chisel Mortiser and a 882 Jointer. They are both so good they kind of sold me on Powematic tools. Seeing threads like this sort of confirms it for me.

PHM

[Don Alexander]

the 2 words i despise the most in woodworking are "close enough" :eek:

[Joe Leigh]

Joe,

Very nice table saw. Good job on the setup too. What type of fence?


Thanks Paul. The fence is the standard Powermatic Accufence w/30" rails.

[Zach England]

I think that will be my next saw. I am still deciding between that and the new Unisaw.

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

I have that same saw (got it about 6 months ago). It replaced a contractor-type Powermatic Artisan saw, and the difference was astounding. Silky smooth, accurate and powerful. I was pleasantly surprised, as I figured that I had "settled" because of my budget (and a great sale price). I love the leg-operated kill switch and the dust collection is very good. I use it to cut both very hard (ebony, maple) and gummy (spruce, pine) woods, and perhaps I am imagining it but my blades seem to stay sharp longer. I have a pair of Forrest Woodworker II's that I alternate.

[Joe Leigh]

Well I got the rail set installed and I took my time setting it up properly.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1750.jpg

The standard extension table has a very slick laminate top and is constructed in a torsion box style. It adds some nice work area to the saw. I also added a LeeCraft zero clearance insert and a low profile riving knife..

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1751.jpg

Can't say enough about how Powermatic designed their riving knife/saw guard combo, they make it so easy to remove and install that there really is no reason not to use them all the time.
After finally doing some rips and crosscuts all I can say is Wow!. Silky smooth, no vibration and surprisingly quiet, though that has a lot to do with the blade I'm using. I've read countless time on this board how a well made cabinet saw makes all the difference in the world and how it becomes the focal point of your shop. Being a hobbyist I can say the confidence and safety factor has increased geometrically. It's an amazing tool and I'm proud to own it.

[Neil Brooks]

How best to put this ....

That is just one beautiful saw.

[Rich Johnson]

Well I was looking at the Grizzly G1023RLX as well. First May, they end of June expected in the USA I talked to customer service last week and they told me that the saw is not going to be offered in the country and I should look at the new Polar Bear saws. I replyed oh yea....when are they expected to be in stock. She said late September. I laughed and hung up the phone.

So I know we chatted before. Your saw looks like a winner. What modle PM2000 again? Where did u get it at?

Im still looking and your making sawdust....well all I can say is so much for Grizzly.

Look forward to your reply.

[Joe Leigh]

Hey Rich,
The saw is a model# 1792002K. It's the 30" unit with the 3HP motor. I got mine from ToolZone.com for $2295, no tax and free shipping with residential lift gate service included. Now I know that's about a grand more than the 1023RLX but it's a heck of a lot more saw. Figure in delivery and lift gate service (which Grizzly charges extra for), a high quality mobile base (which is included with the PM2000), a much larger table area, and larger ripping capacity, and the difference becomes a lot smaller.

If you have any more questions about the saw I'll be happy to help out.

Joe

[Joe Leigh]

Well I was looking at the Grizzly G1023RLX as well. First May, they end of June expected in the USA I talked to customer service last week and they told me that the saw is not going to be offered in the country...

I just re-read this, does this apply to the 1023RL as well?
That would be bad news for a lot of folks here who are waiting months now for that saw...

[Rich Johnson]

Hmm can you tell if you can shift the rails to the right to get more than a 30 inch cut? I like the built in rollers but it looks like the extention model with the 50 inch cut dosnt come with the casters.

To answer your question I only asked about the one model with Grizzle. Not sure if the one you were looking at is still in the process of coming to Grizzly or not.

[Neal Clayton]

I've read countless time on this board how a well made cabinet saw makes all the difference in the world and how it becomes the focal point of your shop. Being a hobbyist I can say the confidence and safety factor has increased geometrically. It's an amazing tool and I'm proud to own it.

careful, once you get used to using a good table saw, depending on what you build, the logical progression of that is "if only i had a bigger table saw i could eliminate (this tool) and (that tool) and would just need room for the bigger saw" ;)

[Ray McCullie]

I'll be watching CL for this one, think I'll have a long wait? :D

Enjoy, like Rick Peters says, "A quality table saw will last a lifetime. It may be costly but you'll only need to buy one."

[Joe Leigh]

Hmm can you tell if you can shift the rails to the right to get more than a 30 inch cut? I like the built in rollers but it looks like the extention model with the 50 inch cut dosnt come with the casters.


All of the PM2000 models come with casters. You do have to support the extension table and legs when you move the 50" model though. No casters under the support legs.

As for the rails, you could move them right to pick up some room but look closely at this pic...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1750.jpg

The front rail that bolts to the table and wings have notches cut in it for the miter gauge bar. You may have to modify this angle rail once you determine the new position. You may also have to drill and tap new holes to bolt on the fence tube.

[glenn bradley]

She's a thing of beauty. Congrats.

[Dave MacArthur]

congrats, good review and great saw!

[Rich Johnson]

Did the low profile riving knife come with? Also which blade are u using? Im convienced. It will be ordered tomorrow.

[Doug Carpenter]

It's like mustard porn.:D

[Joe Leigh]

Did the low profile riving knife come with? Also which blade are u using? Im convienced. It will be ordered tomorrow.

This is the riving knife that came with the saw..

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226/lj61673/New%20Saw/DSCN1752.jpg

It's taller than the low profile knife and has the notches cut to accept the blade guard. The low profile knife is on sale for $29 at Amazon. The blade is a Freud P410 Premier Fusion. Got that on sale at Amazon also, paid $99 with free shipping.

[Mike Harvey]

Great looking saw.. Also great photo's you took of it.

Bet that was a job getting it down stairs even broken down some.

So, lets now see some photo's of the projects you've been waiting on this saw for.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

[QUOTE=Rich Johnson;1444665]Hmm can you tell if you can shift the rails to the right to get more than a 30 inch cut? I like the built in rollers but it looks like the extention model with the 50 inch cut dosnt come with the casters.

[QUOTE]

As mentioned the 50" version also has built in casters, the extension tabel does not. To move a 50" version you raise the casters then lift the end of the table and move it like a wheelbarrow, seems odd but works easily. If your floor is smooth you can move it without lifting the end.

As for a 40T combo blade there are 4 you can't go wrong with:

Freud P410
Infinity Super General
Forrest WWII
Tenryu Gold Medal

My personal favorite is the Freud, but I have all 4 and would be happy with any of them.

[Dennis Hook]

Enjoy the saw Joe, I got mine (the 52 inch) last year and love it.

[John Petsche]

great review, i have been looking at this saw vs a Jet Xacta deluxe TS and feel I will also be happier with the PM. Thanks for sharing.

John P.

[Matt McColley]

very pretty saw... I hope you enjoy it well.

any plans for an outfeed table?

[Kevin Aylward]

I'm new to the group, but had to take a moment to say congratulations! I've been wanting to upgrade my contractors saw for a while. I know that beast is going to be worth the effort it took to move it into place and set it up. I'm sure the first few boards that whisper through it will be proof of that. I've used my friend's Powermatic, and it's a dream saw! Enjoy!

[Steve Brest Sr]

How does this saw compare to the model 66. Better/Worse or about the same? I have a 66 that's about 10 years old in mint condition. maybe 5 hours total run time. Easy, I know great shop full of tools, barely used??? Got injured and have had to just dream of using what took forever to attain. I am glad I found this site. Having a hard time finding responses to my posts though. oh.... what is a fair price for the PM2000???



Thanks

Steve Brest

[Jim Foster]

I think the biggest differences (the only important ones to me) are the dust collection and more importantly the riving knife. I have a PM66 and it's a great tool, but I would like a riving knife and better factory dust collection.


How does this saw compare to the model 66. Better/Worse or about the same? I have a 66 that's about 10 years old in mint condition. maybe 5 hours total run time. Easy, I know great shop full of tools, barely used??? Got injured and have had to just dream of using what took forever to attain. I am glad I found this site. Having a hard time finding responses to my posts though. oh.... what is a fair price for the PM2000???



Thanks

Steve Brest

[Steve Brest Sr]

thanks Jim... I'm moving from N.California to Idaho or N.E. Texas soon and am trying to decide to sell the 66 before the move...and then purchase another 66 or a 2000. I agree the dust collection on the 66 could use an improvement.Thanks again...

Steve Brest

[Mike Heidrick]

You will be giving up a Baldor most likely going from old 66 to 2000. Only a very few 2000 were sold with a baldor as a special edition when they first came out.

PM66 trunion
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/PM66trunnion.jpg

2000 trunion
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/DSCN1740.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/DSCN1741.jpg

[Tony Leonard]

Congrats on the new saw! I have been using mine for a few years now and I have really enjoyed it. I had to get mine from the garage to the shop, which was also a huge challenge. I posted pics on a web site...

http://www.paintandsawdust.com/pm2000.htm

I'm still impressed with the general feel of the saw. I moved up from a Delta contractor's saw. Money well spent. Had to do a little wiring in the shop to get power to it. That turned into an issue. I thought the two empty slots in my panel were liver -they weren't! So, I had to call in an electrician and he did some moving and swappin g -doublechecked the outlet I wired up and all is well.

Enjoy!

Tonyhttp://www.paintandsawdust.com/pm2000.htm

[Rick Potter]

Interesting to note that this saw is now priced at $2959 at Amazon, with free shipping. That's about $50 more than I paid for my 36" PCS Sawstop a few months ago at Rockler.

Joe got a great deal on a really nice saw.

Rick Potter

[Brian Burrows]

I recently purchased this saw from woodcraft during their 15% off sale. I got it for 2600.00 free shipping. I also got an 8" jointer w/ spiral cutter head and a 15" planer w/ spiral cutter head all for the same price with free shipping. I was tired of my old hand me down tools that I was always fixing. These machines are awesome plus were easy to set up.