Garrett-Wade

[John Mark Lane]

This is kind of an odd question, and I don't mean to malign anyone. But...

30 years ago, when I was a younger fella doing woodworking stuff, I seem to remember Garrett-Wade as being a pretty good operation. They sold quality tools. They had a showroom/store in Manhattan, and when I lived in Manhattan I used to go there to shop. It was a weird kind of place, on a second floor in an odd building in the Village, as I recall. But I liked the place and bought some tools there. I think I bought my Stanley 60 1/2 there, which I still have.

Getting back into all this recently, I found their website. Seems they no longer have the Manhattan shop (or any brick and mortar shop, as far as I can tell). And they sell a lot of odd stuff, like gardening tools, and weird stuff that you might expect to find at a place like Sharper Image (do they even still exist), or Brookstone.

Nonetheless, I placed an order. They had a nice knife that I thought would be a good Father's Day present for my dad. Plus some supposedly high-end woodworking screwdrivers, that looked like some I had many years ago (and loved). Plus a box set of supposedly precision SS squares. Pretty pricey stuff, but hey, the world has changed, and quality costs more and is more rare.

Well, the box arrived today. So poorly packed, it had holes all in it. The knife came in a nice box (its own box, inside the package), which would have made a nice gift box when wrapped. But it had holes in it and was all garbled up. The screwdrivers were in crappy little cardboard boxes, all distorted, but no big deal, the screwdrivers were OK. But obviously made in China. Then quality was quite a disappointment. Handles sloppily riveted to the metal, with the wood messed up, etc. The squares came in a decent enough little wooden box (irrelevant, I just wanted the squares, but I knew this when I ordered them). No indication of where they are made. No idea yet how accurate they are, but the whole thing looks kinda cheap.

This was a fairly expensive collection of stuff, expected to be very high end. Not so high end.

What's going on here? Has Garrett-Wade simply gone the way of everyone else, and just a small version of the Borg with phoney high-end tools? What did I miss? Is there anyone left who really sells GOOD tools?

Feeling depressed in NY,

Mark

[george wilson]

They have gone yuppie. They certainly sell very expensive wrenches. Why no quality control in selection of other items?

[Andrew Nemeth]

If you are not satisfied with your order I would not hesitate to send it back. I bought a few things from them about 15 years ago. I remember there stuff as being kinda pricey back then. I still have two nicholson pattern makers rasps that are very nice but the draw knife I purchased broke shortly after I started using it. It felt kinda cheep from the getgo and I guess that left a bad taste in my mouth becuase I never ordered from them again. I have not heard much about them lately, I am interested in hearing what others have to say. If you are looking for other sources try Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley, and The Japan Woodworker as their names come up often when people are looking for quality hand tools and hardware. Incidently, Lee Valley sells gardening tools and Japan Woodworker sells kitchen knives

-Andrew

[Van Huskey]

Many of their products are nowhere near the quality they were known for. Price pressure at its worst.

[Pat Moy]

They sell relatively high-quality stuff but way over priced in my opinion.

A few years ago, I went looking for their 2nd-floor store in lower Manhattan and found it was gone. The doorman in that building told me they had moved around the corner. I went to the new address. Their new place was much bigger than the tiny 2nd-floor facility. But there was no showroom or store. The receptionist told me they've converted to mail-orders only.

[Joe Jensen]

Yea, seems like they have completely changed. The catalog looks nice, but some of the stuff is barely a step up from Harbor Freight. My brother gave me some of those forged type screwdrivers and a small finger plane for Christmas and they are essentially useless. Looks like something a 4th grader made in home room

[Larry Edgerton]

I quit ordering from them some time ago as well. They do have an amazing photographic department. They still manage to make junk look like good stuff.

Sad.....

[John Coloccia]

This is kind of an odd question, and I don't mean to malign anyone. But...

30 years ago, when I was a younger fella doing woodworking stuff, I seem to remember Garrett-Wade as being a pretty good operation. They sold quality tools. They had a showroom/store in Manhattan, and when I lived in Manhattan I used to go there to shop. It was a weird kind of place, on a second floor in an odd building in the Village, as I recall. But I liked the place and bought some tools there. I think I bought my Stanley 60 1/2 there, which I still have.

Getting back into all this recently, I found their website. Seems they no longer have the Manhattan shop (or any brick and mortar shop, as far as I can tell). And they sell a lot of odd stuff, like gardening tools, and weird stuff that you might expect to find at a place like Sharper Image (do they even still exist), or Brookstone.

Nonetheless, I placed an order. They had a nice knife that I thought would be a good Father's Day present for my dad. Plus some supposedly high-end woodworking screwdrivers, that looked like some I had many years ago (and loved). Plus a box set of supposedly precision SS squares. Pretty pricey stuff, but hey, the world has changed, and quality costs more and is more rare.

Well, the box arrived today. So poorly packed, it had holes all in it. The knife came in a nice box (its own box, inside the package), which would have made a nice gift box when wrapped. But it had holes in it and was all garbled up. The screwdrivers were in crappy little cardboard boxes, all distorted, but no big deal, the screwdrivers were OK. But obviously made in China. Then quality was quite a disappointment. Handles sloppily riveted to the metal, with the wood messed up, etc. The squares came in a decent enough little wooden box (irrelevant, I just wanted the squares, but I knew this when I ordered them). No indication of where they are made. No idea yet how accurate they are, but the whole thing looks kinda cheap.

This was a fairly expensive collection of stuff, expected to be very high end. Not so high end.

What's going on here? Has Garrett-Wade simply gone the way of everyone else, and just a small version of the Borg with phoney high-end tools? What did I miss? Is there anyone left who really sells GOOD tools?

Feeling depressed in NY,

Mark

If you want good screwdrivers, check out Wera screwdrivers. They're even carried by Woodcraft. It's all I use now, including their mini screwdrivers. My Craftsmans get used to pry things, chisel things and as loaners (they were absolute GARBAGE from day one).

http://www-us.wera.de/

You can still buy good tools but you have to look. Most everyone makes JUNK nowadays. I'm ruthless with this stuff. If I'm casually looking and a salesman comes up and tries to sell me something, I'll sit there and point out all the problems with his item and why I wouldn't give him even $0.10 for it. I'm not normally a jerk, but I just have absolutely no patience left for this sort of stuff. When I lived in California, for every item I bought and kept I would return at least one or two items. I got tired of putting up with dents, scratches, things that didn't work properly, things that didn't line up properly, etc.

I suspect this thread has struck a nerve.

[John Mark Lane]

I suspect this thread has struck a nerve.


I think I'm leaning in your direction here. I too am just sick and tired of buying garbage.

Thanks for the tip about the Weras. I'll give them a try.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I used to buy a bunch of stuff from them 15 years ago or so, but nothing since then.

Another thanks about the Wera's, just added a few things to my Amazon wishlist, so my wife can pick some up for me. ;)

[John Gornall]

Bondhus are the American made screwdrivers that last forever. We use them in a production situation and get years out of each tool. The last time I bought c-man drivers they didn't make it through the first day.

http://www.bondhus.com/products/screwdrivers/body-0.htm

[craig winer]

John, I saw your post and as one of the owners of Garrett Wade I must confess it was hard to read. I appreciate your feedback and have passed your comment around. I’m going to make sure the packers read this and re-double their efforts. (Though part of me wonders if UPS didn’t help.)

Let me say right off, we want you to be happy. If you aren’t please send the tools back for a full refund or an exchange. Your order should have come with a pre-paid return label.

A few of us where discussing the post and comments this morning and they struck a cord for all of us, not for the obvious reasons, but because we too are sorry to not be selling more classic woodworking hand tools. As you likely know in the 1970’s we were one of the 1st companies to bring fine European & Japanese tools to the US market. However, what we (and most other catalog tool companies) found starting around 1998-2000 was that the classic woodworking tool market in the US & around the world was shrinking fast. Companies like Stanley UK, Record, Ulmia, Inca all went either out of business or completely changed what they were selling. This was in response to declining sales and interest. Most people shifted over to using power tools (a business we weren’t interested in). Those classic tools were (and remain) very expensive and most people tend to not want to spend their money for them.

As tool lovers we’ve branched out in the last many years. Our interests, like a lot of you, are broad. What we like are good tools in all areas –gardening, shop, etc. We strive to bring you interesting, well-made tools from all over the world. For example those screwdrivers you mention (the old US Army Tank screwdrivers) we say they are Heavy-Duty but not pretty (I think we even photographed the sloppy rivets on the website). But sometimes you need a screwdriver you can beat up. We aim to be honest (one doesn’t always want the best looking tool) and straightforward.

I’m very sorry if we’ve let you down but I can assure you we will redouble our efforts. Thanks again for the feedback. Please feel free to email me directly with any comments, questions or concerns.
Best,
Craig

[Dave Lehnert]

I see that Garrett Wade is now in Cincinnati. Do you operate a retail store there?

[craig winer]

Sorry no store, just our warehouse and call center.

[John Mark Lane]

John, I saw your post and as one of the owners of Garrett Wade I must confess it was hard to read. I appreciate your feedback and have passed your comment around. I’m going to make sure the packers read this and re-double their efforts. (Though part of me wonders if UPS didn’t help.)

Let me say right off, we want you to be happy. If you aren’t please send the tools back for a full refund or an exchange. Your order should have come with a pre-paid return label.

A few of us where discussing the post and comments this morning and they struck a cord for all of us, not for the obvious reasons, but because we too are sorry to not be selling more classic woodworking hand tools. As you likely know in the 1970’s we were one of the 1st companies to bring fine European & Japanese tools to the US market. However, what we (and most other catalog tool companies) found starting around 1998-2000 was that the classic woodworking tool market in the US & around the world was shrinking fast. Companies like Stanley UK, Record, Ulmia, Inca all went either out of business or completely changed what they were selling. This was in response to declining sales and interest. Most people shifted over to using power tools (a business we weren’t interested in). Those classic tools were (and remain) very expensive and most people tend to not want to spend their money for them.

As tool lovers we’ve branched out in the last many years. Our interests, like a lot of you, are broad. What we like are good tools in all areas –gardening, shop, etc. We strive to bring you interesting, well-made tools from all over the world. For example those screwdrivers you mention (the old US Army Tank screwdrivers) we say they are Heavy-Duty but not pretty (I think we even photographed the sloppy rivets on the website). But sometimes you need a screwdriver you can beat up. We aim to be honest (one doesn’t always want the best looking tool) and straightforward.

I’m very sorry if we’ve let you down but I can assure you we will redouble our efforts. Thanks again for the feedback. Please feel free to email me directly with any comments, questions or concerns.
Best,
Craig


Hello Craig,

I have to say, I am impressed, not only that one of the owners of Garrett-Wade responded to my post, but also with the sincerity and frankness of your response. If my original post was kind of hard for you to read, yours was also hard for me to read.

I'm a business owner myself. And I grew up in a family of business owners. My father owned an auto speed shop and was in the high-performance auto business. As the years progressed, we watched the changes in the industry, the changes in consumer habits and the effective disappearance of high-performance aftermarket auto supplies. Our family business eventually shut down.

I suppose we should be grateful Garrett-Wade has not gone the same route. You have branched out and adapted, and you're still here. It saddens me that I can't visit a Garrett-Wade store any more, and that a lot of the stuff you used to sell is either gone or very different. But I'm also glad that you've held on and still sell what are clearly some really good tools, some of which are hard or even impossible to find elsewhere.

Most of all, I'm heartened to see an owner who actually cares, and who has the guts to enter into this wild world of Internet forums and respond to a customer "complaint". I will have a different view of Garrett-Wade going forward, for that reason and for the content of your post.

As for my previous order (the one that inspired this post), thank you, but it's OK. I've found a nice gift box to put the knife in for my father for Father's Day. The screwdrivers do indeed appear to be pretty darn sturdy. And the other items as far as I can see will serve their intended purposes well.

In a way, I'm sorry I posted my "complaints" -- as I said, I never intended to malign anyone, just curious about what happened to a company I always admired. On the other hand, I'm glad that I did, because it brought out your post, which I think is important and helpful. Knowing the owners of a business are reachable and accountable is a huge bonus in this age of big boxes.

I personally believe the world is changing again, and for the better. I've been reading "Shop Class as Soulcraft", by Matthew Crawford, and recently read "Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv. I think the messages of those and other works have been well-received, and I'm encouraged to think that people are tired of institutionalized homogeneity and faceless big boxes. I for one am making damn sure my young children grow up with fine hand tools around them, and acquire the ability to use them well. In the big picture, people like you are helping make that possible.

Thank you again, and I do hope this won't be the last post from you. I've only been here a short while (many years ago I was a regular at rec.woodworking), but it's clearly the best woodworking forum on the Internet.

Best regards,

Mark

[Greg Portland]

For ordering Wera, Bondhus, Knipex, Wiha, and other high quality non-WWing hand tools I have been pleased with Chad's Toolbox (free S&H, low price guarantee, etc.). I have a set of the Wiha screwdrivers and they are -really- nice.

[george wilson]

What about buying better tools to sell? Several have complained about tool quality.

I had already realized that you had to go where the market was. Yet,Woodcraft Supply still seems healthy,and Lee Valley,though they also sell household items. They still sell mostly tools,and are making their tools better as they go along,creating an increasing following for their planes,etc..

[Harry Goodwin]

One reason we have junk is we bad mouth suppliers for great stuff because of the price. We can't have both. Great and fine tools are still available from our suppiers some from the US and some from Canada and some from Asia and Europe. I still have many Japanese chisels from great companies and all of them were never touched with a grinder or finish on their sides. they also are really hard as both an advantage and problem depending on the job. Let's be kinder to those trying to produce quality cheap an impossible job. Harry

[george wilson]

If you can offer VERY expensive wrenches,which I suppose there must be a customer base for,why can't you offer other similar quality tools? Seems reasonable.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I've purchased a few items from GW from time to time and find them ok, especially if they are on sale. I can usually id something in the catalog as something I can get from a Harbor Freight quality source. However, some of their higher end itmes seem great - when you can afford to buy them. Their German made adjustable wrenches, for example, seem superb and I may look into one of the British made pipe soldering units. I purchased a Chinese made whittling knife recently for my brother who's embarking on that hobby and the blades and handle seemed pretty darn good. I was impressed for a $14 (on sale) purchase. I also recommend the classic French ring knives; very useful out in the field. One of these days I may get a woodsman's pal, but I don't really need it (but I really like it!) The various stoves look great for camping, etc. You just have to sort and pick the items that suit you. I think a lot of catalogs are guilty of it and are struggling to find their niche - just check Northern Tool (higher priced Harbor Freight) and Tractor Supply. They'll try to stick it to you if they can convince the same HF item is somehow better through them!

[John Coloccia]

I didn't see this as a GW bashing thread, personally. It just seemed like venting some frustration. When you can't touch and feel a tool, it's difficult to know what's nice and what's junk. The supplier can't well say "these are junk...don't buy these unless you're broke". It's a difficult situation. You kind of have to rely on other people's opinions of the tool, and often there is no one you know that happens to own it.

LV sells junk too. So does Woodcraft. Everyone sells junk except maybe LN, but they're not a supplier. They're a manufacturer. Everything Veritas makes is very nice too but they're LV's brand and that's what we've come to expect.

Fortunately, nearly all of them have great return policies. I can think of a couple that have LOUSY return policies and questionable tools. I just don't order from them.

Take advantage of the return policy. That's what they're there for and don't feel guilty about it. :D

edit: I just wanted to clarify. I didn't mean EVERYTHING they sell is junk. I meant there is a mix of high end tools and seriously low end tools, so unless you know what you're buying, you may be very dissapointed, very satisfied, or very nicely surprised. The Veritas Dovetail/Crosscut saws were a VERY pleasant surprise. I was expecting them to by OK and usable, and instead they're actually my favorite saws.

[craig winer]

Mark-
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. And thank you for those two book/article references. I just started the "Shop Class as Soulcraft" article and it's great.

I look forward to hearing from you if you have any questions, concerns or other book suggestions. Feel free to email me at any time

Best Regards
Craig

[george wilson]

Since Woodcraft has a store near me,I can certainly agree that some of their tools are junk. Especially their Chinese riffler files and needle files. The cheap rifflers are easily spotted in catalogs. They have a sharp kink in their ends,instead of having a smooth curve. The Chinese have never gotten that concept right.

I was surprised that they'd carry some of the things they do when I was first able to see some of their tools in person.

On the other hand,my favorite carving tools are their Pfiels,and they also have sold LN planes(will they continue?)

[Petra Pope]

I didn't see this as a GW bashing thread, personally. It just seemed like venting some frustration. When you can't touch and feel a tool, it's difficult to know what's nice and what's junk. The supplier can't well say "these are junk...don't buy these unless you're broke". It's a difficult situation. You kind of have to rely on other people's opinions of the tool, and often there is no one you know that happens to own it.

LV sells junk too. So does Woodcraft. Everyone sells junk except maybe LN, but they're not a supplier. They're a manufacturer. Everything Veritas makes is very nice too but they're LV's brand and that's what we've come to expect.

Fortunately, nearly all of them have great return policies. I can think of a couple that have LOUSY return policies and questionable tools. I just don't order from them.

Take advantage of the return policy. That's what they're there for and don't feel guilty about it. :D

edit: I just wanted to clarify. I didn't mean EVERYTHING they sell is junk. I meant there is a mix of high end tools and seriously low end tools, so unless you know what you're buying, you may be very dissapointed, very satisfied, or very nicely surprised. The Veritas Dovetail/Crosscut saws were a VERY pleasant surprise. I was expecting them to by OK and usable, and instead they're actually my favorite saws.
John,
I'm a technician at Garrett Wade and I communicate almost everyday with our customers regarding the tools we sell (or have sold previously). Though I doubt I would ever call one of our products "junk", I do give my honest opinion about any tool a customer may be considering. That's because it's not really the job of the GW Tech Dept to sell tools. Our job is to be helpful. I would not hesitate to say "This tool is not what you're looking for", and I will often redirect customers to other sources, even a competitor. I figure if I can help someone find what they're looking for, they'll remember and come back. If I sell them a tool they don't need, they may never come back. If I can be any assistance to you, please contact me directly at tech@garrettwade.com and I'll do my best.
Best regards,
Petra

[Joel Goodman]

Not to trash GW but I think Tools for Working Wood is sort of like the "old GW" from years ago. I think GW was the first to handle Lie Nielsen planes -- in fact he used to work there!

[george wilson]

No offers yet to simply improve on some of their tools?

[Henry Ambrose]

My compliments to the Garret Wade folks for posting here. I bought a good bit of stuff from them many years ago and most of it is still going strong.

[Joe Jensen]

I agree, compliments to Garrett Wade folks for joining the discussion.

I've maintained that consumers are the reason the overall quality of tools has dropped so much in the past 20 year. SOOO many chase price first.

[John Coloccia]

John,
I'm a technician at Garrett Wade and I communicate almost everyday with our customers regarding the tools we sell (or have sold previously). Though I doubt I would ever call one of our products "junk", I do give my honest opinion about any tool a customer may be considering. That's because it's not really the job of the GW Tech Dept to sell tools. Our job is to be helpful. I would not hesitate to say "This tool is not what you're looking for", and I will often redirect customers to other sources, even a competitor. I figure if I can help someone find what they're looking for, they'll remember and come back. If I sell them a tool they don't need, they may never come back. If I can be any assistance to you, please contact me directly at tech@garrettwade.com and I'll do my best.
Best regards,
Petra

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It's nice to know that GW is willing to take the time with their customers to help them select the right tool for their needs and desires. Buying tools really has become somewhat of a crap shoot, and we really need companies that are willing to give honest assessments of what they're selling.

[Michael MacDonald]

I am pretty impressed that GW folks have taken the time to digest and respond to this thread. That sort of market awareness and responsiveness certainly makes me more likely to direect a purchase in the GW direction. Kudos to you guys...

I have purchasd some f-style clamps from GW (based on a recommendation from someone on SMC), and I like the clamps a lot. I subsequently have received catalogs in the mail, but only gave them a general sort of glance... I will pay more attention to the next mailing.

[Richard Link]

This has been an interesting discussion and I too commend the GW folks for chiming in. Ultimately, (a) what tool companies sell and (b) how they support these items is driven by consumer demand. If we demand something for almost nothing, we tend to get almost nothing.

I don't run a sales business but I've experienced a little taste of this attitude in selling items on Craigslist. Often, I'll have a next to new tool in pristine condition that I simply don't use. Lets say this tool costs $500 new. Perhaps it was an impulse buy or I just overestimated its utility (or I was just stupid). As a general rule, I'll get tons of ridiculous offers for the tool off craigslist. "Would you take $25 for it?" People want something for nothing or they aren't interested. These people don't value the quality inherent in the item and only want it if they can steal it. That's why its so much more satisfying to sell such a tool on this forum. Whenever I do that, I get reasonable inquiries from other woodworkers who recognize the value of the item and appreciate the appropriate discount for a used tool.

If we are going to see a reversal in this trend toward cheaper and junkier tools, we (as consumers) need to be willing to pay for better quality stuff and be unwilling to pay almost nothing for junk. Until that happens (and believe me, I like cheap tools too), the sellers will simply follow the market. And frankly, there have to be enough woodworkers willing to "invest" in quality stuff to make a difference.

At any rate, kudos for GW for getting involved in the conversation. I, for one, will look more seriously at their offerings in the future.

[Rick Potter]

Mr. Winer,

I also appreciate your getting involved in this discussion. I agree that these complaints are not all leveled at your company, some of us are just taking an opportunity to grieve over a general loss of quality in the marketplace.

That being said, I would to make a suggestion for your catalog, which I have not seen in a while. How about making a 'Gold Seal of Quality' type of label for products that meet real expectations, not just a sales pitch. Think of the old 'good', 'better', 'best' ratings we used to see in catalogs. Not much, perhaps, but it would be helpful for us to know the different qualities from one item to another. Perhaps some well known standards could be used, like "compare these wrenches to Snap On", or the like.

Rick Potter