Problem flush sanding plugs

[Dave Tesch]

I've run into a problem with my latest project. i'm working on a box approx 20"x20"x15" made from pine plywood. i put 4 plugs in the box that cover up a t-nut embedded in the sides of the box. the plugs are made from pine and are 7/8" and fit in a 7/8" hole i drilled out with a spade bit. i gued the plugs in with titebond II and clamped them with C clamps.

the problem i am having is i am trying to sand the plugs flush with the box but it isn't working very well - my ROS is taking off material around the plugs faster than it is taking material off the plugs themselves. i started with 80 grit and worked up to 200 grit.

i don't know a lot about sanders but it seems like mine has too soft of a pad or something. it is the Velcro type.

I've also had this problem with various other plywood, where the lighter parts of the plywood sand faster than the darker parts and i get a wavy finish.

i need some advice on what to do.

[Prashun Patel]

A ROS is a tricky way to sand plugs flush - even if the underlying material was solid stock.

I prefer to use a chisel or block plane and then finish up with 150gt sandpaper on a hand sanding block. It keeps everything flat, and even fills in any gaps a little with sanding dust (um, not that I ever have any gaps that need filling...)

[Chip Lindley]

Hi Dave! You can use a sharp wood chisel or low-angle block plane to shave the plugs down. Trying to sand pine ply does exactly as you have encountered.

The resins in the late wood (dark area) of pine is much harder than the early wood (light areas. And the wide rings of fast-growing pine don't help. This makes for very wide soft areas when the rotary veneer is made into plywood. Sanding is just not the best option. Try using a cabinet scraper or card scraper on your box. You will be amazed and what such a simple hand tool can do!

[Dave Tesch]

thank you both, i will look into those items. i dont own any of those but my dad had a hand planer when i was a kid - i will look up what those tools are and see if i can buy them.

i've always had trouble at this stage of building. i can build well and paint well but sanding/finish is an area i need improvement.

[Stephen Cherry]

As mentioned, a chisel or plane would be the best bet and first choice for this type of thing. The hitch though is that they would need to be very sharp. Sharp enough to shave the hair off of your arm would be the beginning of sharpness, and unless you want to buy a fairly high end chisel, it won't come sharp enough.

Another alternative might be to use a flexible Japanese style saw, which can bend and cut a plug almost at the surface. I think these can be bought at a home center, or depot

[Greg Johnson]

I use a straight bit on a router set slightly above the surface to trim off the top of plugs. Then you only have to sand a few thousandths off. This seems to work better for me. I have tried the japan saw and chisel technique. With the chisel it would split down below the surface. With the japan saw I had problems with damaging the wood around the plug. This may have something to do with my 10 thumbs.....:o

Greg

[Dan Friedrichs]

I can also never get the chisel to work - always tears material below the surface. I use a small hand-saw, then a block of wood wrapped in sandpaper...

But I like Greg's idea - more power tools are always better :)

[Dave Tesch]

hmm. i do have a 1/2" pattern bit for my router that i use to put holes in things, i could give that a try.

i think i will try and see if dad still has that plane we had when i was a kid. it was a good plane, i remember my grandpa used it to true up my closet door about 30 years ago. it has not been used since. question is, where is it :D

i inherited one of those hand tools, a power planer in 1996. it is in new condition, likely never used. i have never used it. its green with yellow parts, no idea what brand; hitachi? frankly it has never seemed like a good idea to me, but i dont know either. maybe it is perfect.

i am thinking that the block plane might be a good idea for me to own.

[Cary Falk]

Belt sander.

[Mike Cruz]

The only problem with using a chisel is that you have to MAKE SURE you are going WITH the grain of the plug, otherwise you'll chunk out below the surface of the surrounding wood. That means that you'll have to pay attention to the direction of the grain when putting the plugs in. Another way to check plug grain, is to test it about 1/4 plus inches above the surounding surface. This assumes your plug is that high above the surface...

[John Coloccia]

Belt sander.

Norm always used the belt sander.

[Dave Tesch]

that i have.

[Jay Jolliffe]

I think belt sander and veneered plywood don't mix well. The veneers on the plywood are thin & the sander may if not careful take too much off.

[Fred Belknap]

Make side grain plugs out of similar material.

[Terry Welty]

+1 Japanese style saw followed by belt sander (gently) or sanding block and VIOLA your done...

[Carl Beckett]

I have had this problem, and found that using a hard sanding block makes a huge difference.

If you wrap your sandpaper around a block of hardwood and go easy on the pressure you use when sanding, you should get a pretty flush result.

(a sharp plane or chisel is preferred, but sounds like you may not be there and its not always the best idea to learn on an almost finished project - although I have to admit I ignore this advice often) :rolleyes:

[Rick Prosser]

My vote is for a sharp, low angle block plane.

[Prashun Patel]

Using a belt sander on plywood is going to frustrate you. Plugs sand surprisingly quickly with a hand block if shaved close enough.

If you don't want to jump into the world of chisels/block planes/sharpening, then the easiest is a japanese flush-cut saw (BORG sells one under the Irwin/Marples brand for $20), followed by a hand sanding block.

To prevent gouging the surface when flush cutting, I use an old ROS sanding disc placed upside down over the area, with the plug projecting through one of the holes to protect the surrounding area. You can also drill a hole in a business card if yr dowels are wider than that. This gets you close enough for handsanding.

On another note, if yr going to do a lot of this, I suggest you get a good brad point or forstner bit; Spade bits are prone to tearout - especially in plywood...

[Terry Beadle]

A flush cutting saw is nice but not the only way. Take any flat bladed saw and lay it up on top of a thin card scraper by the plug. Use the saw to cut the plug while keeping the blade on the card scraper. Cut all around the plug while not letting the teeth of the saw touch the scraper. Then use the hard board block with 80 ~ 120 grit sandpaper and it will be done. Finish with 320 grit on the hard block.

I'd buy a 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch good chisel with the $20 as you will find more uses for a good sharp chisel than a zero clearance saw. IMO.

Good Luck !

[Dave Tesch]

i would like to start using a block plane, if i have to practive for a while before i get it right then thats ok too. i have plenty of spare pine plywood and plug material left over.

i used a soft pine 1/4" to make the plugs. i made 8 plugs for 8 holes and i did have one tearout ( i mananaged to glue most of it back down as it came up in big pieces). i've had my eye on a set of forstners for quite some time, maybe now is a good time to jump on that.

one of the points of this pair of boxes was focusing on the edge trimming of the doors, and trying a plug over the t-nuts. i've built these boxes many times over with different dimensions and they are all in use but these are two aspects i have been unhappy with in the past. i did pretty well on the edge trim (i had help) and witht he help i am getting herer it looks like i may do well on the plugs too.

[John Coloccia]

FWIW, Lie-Neilsen's model maker's plane is perfect for small trimming jobs like this. I use mine all the time.

[Paul Ryan]

A low angle block plane is one of those tools that every shop needs they come in so handy. I use my 60 1/2 as much as my table saw, it never gets put away. It works perfect for triming plugs that is the only way to go in my mind. A chisel you have to be too careful, a block plane they are trimmed in seconds and then just a little sanding.,

[David Cefai]

If you use a chisel don't try to chop off the end of the plug. Use a slicing motion and work around the plug. There's a better chance of not damaging it. whether youuse a plane or a chisel, wetting the plug with some alcohol will soften it drastically - as it does any end grain.

Plane or chisel, you need them *really* sharp for this.

When sanding you were sanding end grain surrounded by flat grain. The endgrain was harder.

[Dave Tesch]

i used a belt sander lightly and it flattened the area without gouging or removing too much material. being such a soft wood box i hadnt considered the belt sander at all as it can really go through the softer woods, but in this case it flatted out the plugs quickly and then once it reached a flat surface no longer removed much material. i finished up with 200 grit on a block and finally the ROS.

i still want to buy a block plane as that seems like a tool i would like to use for building boxes especially during assembly.

thanks everyone for helping me think this through and give me good ideas. i'm at this forum quite often but dont often have a lot to contribute except for questions. i appreciate the help.

[Steve Mellott]

An inexpensive flush cutting saw (about $15) and then clean up with a hard sanding block. Works great every time!

[mreza Salav]

I always use a flush cutting saw (which is around $10-15) and cut it flush. It works so well I can hand sand it a few times or use the ROS for a few seconds and be done with it.

No tear out on the edges, no problem.