Equipping to sand & buff bowls...

[Jamie Straw]

OK, this move to bowl turning means I can't just use little torn-off strips of sandpaper from my endless supply, as I do with winestoppers. I rely on SMC folk to help me not waste money, so what do you suggest for basic bowl sanding and buffing? I found what looks to be a good deal on the Sorby Sandmaster, is that a go-to tool? Is Beall the "only way to go" for buffing, or are there less expensive alternatives that work just as well? TIA!!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jamie,

I use a Beal buff because I was able to buy one in a Woodcraft in Spokane, WA.

I bought a Grex 2" angle pneumatic sander. It works well. At the time I bought it, the advertised amount of air it required was inaccurate but I have a 5 HP, 26 gallon air compressor and I can stop for 30 seconds or so and the compressor will catch up.

The Grex runs a little over $100 IIRC. I bought mine at Packard.

[John Keeton]

Jamie, here is what I ended up doing -

Neiko 3/8" close quarter angle drill $30 shipped - item # 250469472425 on ebay

Beall Buffing System (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Finishing___Buffing___Wood_Buffing_System___wood_b uff_sys?Args=) $69.99 from CSUSA. Price is a little cheaper at Woodcraft, I believe.

Beal Bowl Buffs (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Finishing___Buffing___3__Bowl_Buff___bowl_buff_3?A rgs=)$42.99 from CSUSA, also at Woodcraft. I haven't used these yet, but I suspect they will be indispensible when needed.

Don't use the Carnauba wax that comes with the Beall system. Start with the Renaissance (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Finishing___Pen___Project_Finishes___Renaissance_W ax___ren_wax?Args=) Wax $24.99 from CSUSA, though I understand that this (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20090&cat=1,190,42950&ap=1) from Lee Valley is the same stuff a little cheaper depending on your shipping situation.

Then call Vince and get an assortment of the blue flex discs (http://www.vinceswoodnwonders.com/Blue_Flex_Discs.htm)and a couple of back up pads and some interface pads. Just ask Vince what you need to start up. I have found the blue discs to be the most cost efficient.

Then, a crepe rubber cleaning block (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=20192&cat=1,42500) - this will extend the life of your disks many times over, and the most cost effective part of this list!!

Previously, for flat work, I had purchased a large quantity of sandpaper from 150 - 2,000 from here (http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/). The best quality and price I could find. I still use sandpaper quite a bit by hand by tearing the sheets into pieces about 2x3.

That should do it!!!

[Michelle Rich]

whoa nellie, why can't you use sandpaper by hand? Spinning wood is spinning wood. You may choose not to, but no reason to buy anything to do bowls. (you did not say deep hollowforms) The sanding units by sorby & the clones are nice to have (they rotate backward to the spin using your lathe to power them) I've been in this game for eons, and I have never needed powered equipment..but you may of course, if your budget calls for it, get all the tools..good luck:D

[John Keeton]

Michelle, I actually agree that you don't need any power sanding equipment, and I can actually get a finer finish by hand. But, for getting rid of any difficult grain areas, and for rough sanding, it sure is nice!

I used sandpaper by hand for the first several pieces, and I really enjoy the power sander. To get it and the setup from Vince runs about $75 or so - not a major investment.

Not a have to have - but, sure makes it more enjoyable.

[Ted Evans]

John, I agree with your recommendations.

Would you be willing to share your opinion on which manufactor did you prefer from the source that you mentioned? I have been using Klingspor but would like to change. Thanks

[Jim Underwood]

I'm using an import right angle drill bought from the local Re-Tool for $30-$40. You could probably do the same at a local Harbor Freight. My mentor says it's a lot cheaper to buy two of these than spend $150 for a brand name that tears up in the same amount of time.
Then I bought several rolls of hook and loop in various grits from Industrial Abrasives -120 grit through 320 grit if I remember correctly- I may have gotten up to 400. As well I bought a 2 inch and 3 inch hook and loop arbors for the sand paper. (I probably need more than two, eh?) My mentor also showed me how to stack 5 squares of sandpaper and cut 2" and 3" circles five at a time on the lathe. It beats hammering them out one at a time with sharpened pipe...

[Richard Madison]

For most bowls you do not really need a right angle or close quarter drill. First try the straight, corded drill that you probably already have. Of course it's usually fun to get a new tool.

[Cathy Schaewe]

I would have to say that the bowl buffs, in addition to the regular beall system, are a definite must -

[John Keeton]

John, I agree with your recommendations.

Would you be willing to share your opinion on which manufactor did you prefer from the source that you mentioned? I have been using Klingspor but would like to change. ThanksTed, I use their brand (http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/abrasive-sheets.html) (USA11) and purchased the 50 sheet packs. AO for 150, 220, and 320. Then SC for 400, 600, 1200 and 2000. I use the same grits for my scary sharp board for my flat work tools.

I doubled up on the 150 and 220, as those are the heavy use items. Once I get it to 220, seems it doesn't take too much of the 320 and 400. I use the 600 up only on finials and the scary sharp board.

[Jim Gobel]

Don't use the Carnauba wax that comes with the Beall system. Start with the Renaissance (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Finishing___Pen___Project_Finishes___Renaissance_W ax___ren_wax?Args=)

ok, I havent finished a bowl yet but have a few that are nearly to that point. WOuldnt you want to use the Renaissance last as the final coat to protect the item?

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jamie I use the Beall buff and a harbour freight angle drill. I bought two in case one went belly up but that was 2 yrs ago and still have the one in the box.

[Charlie Reals]

I went into the vortex for basically the same list John has.

The beale system will be here tomorrow along with a 6" face plate. I will be attempting the sanding for the first time today. This is all new to me so being from a real old school :D the learning curve could get funny.

I was a purist for a long time until an old man told me " if Davy Crockett woulda had access to a redfield 3x9 scope you can bet he woulda used it".
I finally caved to modern tool advancement.;)
Charlie

[John Keeton]

ok, I havent finished a bowl yet but have a few that are nearly to that point. WOuldnt you want to use the Renaissance last as the final coat to protect the item?Jim, I guess I phrased that wrong!! Yes, the wax is the LAST step, but what I meant was to not contaminate the cotton wax wheel with the Carnauba wax - start fresh with the Ren wax. Otherwise, you would have to clean the Carnauba from the wheel before switching to the Ren wax.

Clear as mud????:D

[Frank Van Atta]

whoa nellie, why can't you use sandpaper by hand? Spinning wood is spinning wood. You may choose not to, but no reason to buy anything to do bowls. (you did not say deep hollowforms) The sanding units by sorby & the clones are nice to have (they rotate backward to the spin using your lathe to power them) I've been in this game for eons, and I have never needed powered equipment..but you may of course, if your budget calls for it, get all the tools..good luck:D

Right on. I used nothing but sandpaper for years on some pretty tough bowls (mostly mesquite). I did finally spend a couple of bucks on a 3" sanding pad for my electric drill, and found that it was a little faster. (Note: this is the same reversible drill that I use for lots of other things.) I use a plain 6" extension (another $2 or so) to do the inside of bowls. And there you have it.

I did finally pick up some buffs, Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnuba wax at a local lapidary supply for considerably less than the Beall system. Sometimes I use this, sometimes I don't. I will say that it imparts a very high gloss.

If I decide to do something for buffing the insides of bowls, I will probably go for the "cheapo" version - high quality paint rollers.

Nothing wrong with all those other sanding and polishing systems, but you can quickly get $100 plus invested - and that is major money to a lot of those just starting out on what may be a short lived "flash in the pan" hobby instead of a lifelong addiction.

That's my story . . .

[Chris Stolicky]

I agree with Keeton - contact Vince for blue sanding pads.

I use a cheap HF drill for power sanding.

I do have a beall buffing system, both wheels and bowl buffs, but it may be worth taking a look at Don Pencil's stuff. I have read good things about his products and service. He is also a member here, if I remember correctly.

[Gary Chester]

I'm still sanding by hand but may have to try something powered one of these days.

Be sure to go thru ALL the grits! And use some kind of dust collection!

I have the Don Pencil buffing system and it works great. It's probably very similar to the Beall... but I've never compared them. donpencil dot com

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I will second or third Vince's discs. I also got a starter of his ceramics, and I finished several small bowls with ONE of each pad. Have not used the "regular" pads yet. Great stuff.

I'd pass on the Sorby sander. I have a knock-off model, yes, it's not the same, but the theory is, and powered sanding is way faster. I do use it on the finer grits every now and then, but not often. The old discs I bought are very heat sensitive. Passive sanding is good for that. Take the money for the sorby and grab that HF angle cheapo drill.

The sanding belt "eraser" is also a must have.

[John Keeton]

...those just starting out on what may be a short lived "flash in the pan" hobby instead of a lifelong addiction.Frank, I vaguely recall those few days early on when I thought it was going to be a short lived hobby!!:D:D I am not sure many make it out of the vortex, and most can count on a "lifelong addiction!"


I will second or third Vince's discs. I also got a starter of his ceramics, and I finished several small bowls with ONE of each pad. Have not used the "regular" pads yet. Great stuff.Kyle, I also have some of the ceramic discs in a couple of the grits, but I can't tell enough improved life to justify the cost difference. Of course, others may differ on that.

[Frank Van Atta]

Frank, I vaguely recall those few days early on when I thought it was going to be a short lived hobby!!:D:D I am not sure many make it out of the vortex, and most can count on a "lifelong addiction!"


Very true. However, many folks aren't convinced of that when they first start, and so need less expensive alternatives until they finally do get sucked all the way into the vortex and become full-fledged, turning addicted, tool junkies. :D

Disclaimer: Wives/hubbies/significant others should completely disregard the "tool junky" reference. :eek:

[Charlie Reals]

Very true. However, many folks aren't convinced of that when they first start, and so need less expensive alternatives until they finally do get sucked all the way into the vortex and become full-fledged, turning addicted, tool junkies. :D

Disclaimer: Wives/hubbies/significant others should completely disregard the "tool junky" reference. :eek:

Couldn't agree more Frank and your earlier reference to the paint roller buffs has had me in a kicking contest with myself what with the box full of 1" lambswool rollers I have on a shelf.
Charlie

[Allen Neighbors]

My buffing system is homemade, to include all the 8"dia x 2.5"thick wheels. Takes just seconds to change wheels, on my 1/2 hp 1725rpm motor with extended arbor.
Glad to share the .pdf file if you want it. It's over 200kb, so I can't post it on this forum.
I also have a 'travelling' system with smaller wheels that mount in the chuck on my little Vicmarc lathe.
Email me... amneighborsATsbcglobalDOTnet

[Dave Mueller]

Gotta jump in here, albeit late to the game.

First, Michele asked why to use power sanding. I use a right angle sander and try to sand with the top of the sanding pad so it leaves lines that are parallel with the bed of the lathe. When I sand just using the piece rotating on the lathe, I get vertical lines (rings) around the piece that are perpendicular to the lathe bed. This is especially true with the coarser grits, which are then harder to remove. I believe that when you power sand they "cancel" out each other.

Second, if you have a pretty hard finish, like urethane or CA, you can polish it to a mirror finish using Scratch Out gelcoat polish. I use it on pens on CA finish and it works beautifully. You can get it at Walmart or an auto supply for about $5. Do not confuse it with a product of the same name for taking the scratches out of CDs and DVDs. That probably also works, but is about twice as expensive.

[Jamie Straw]

Sorry I haven't responded yet to all this great info. Busy morning, and off to work now. See ya tonight (being on the left-hand side of the map puts me at a disadvantage.:eek:

[Jamie Straw]

whoa nellie, why can't you use sandpaper by hand? Spinning wood is spinning wood. You may choose not to, but no reason to buy anything to do bowls. (you did not say deep hollowforms) The sanding units by sorby & the clones are nice to have (they rotate backward to the spin using your lathe to power them)

Glad you mentioned the Sorby (Sandmaster I think it's called), as that was what I was considering. Sounds like it works pretty well for you? My hands have seen better days, and after 2 surgeries and way too much heavy work with them, I tend to default to power assistance when I can. Thirty years ago, it would have been a different story. :(

[Jamie Straw]

Frank, I vaguely recall those few days early on when I thought it was going to be a short lived hobby!!:D:D I am not sure many make it out of the vortex, and most can count on a "lifelong addiction!"


I'm counting on it being a lifetime thing! Have to have something to fall back on passion-wise when I can't ride any longer. I hit the big six-oh last month, and am planning to ride until I'm 80, but one of the equines may stir up trouble down the line, just never know. :eek::D

[Bob Haverstock]

Hi Jamie,

I've made several sanders similar to the Sorby unit. I prefer the 2" diameter. I'm not sure that I would use it on a nature edge. I buy the disc and drivers from 2Sand. The 2" hook drivers are definitely consumables.

I really dislike dead batteries and loose power cords.

Bob Haverstock


Glad you mentioned the Sorby (Sandmaster I think it's called), as that was what I was considering. Sounds like it works pretty well for you? My hands have seen better days, and after 2 surgeries and way too much heavy work with them, I tend to default to power assistance when I can. Thirty years ago, it would have been a different story. :(

[Chris Stolicky]

Another point about the sandmaster, or any inertia sander....

Not my idea, but I have done this myself.

You could make your own, but it is easy to simply get a HF die grinder ~$10, and use that as an inertia sander. It can either be used by itself, or a pipe can be added to the end of it for more leverage. The 1/4" sanding chucks fit right into it.

I have both the straight and angled grinders and they work great as inertia sanders. Don't hook it up to air pressure though!

[Darryl Hansen]

check Don Pencil's buffing equipment as well as the Beal there is a difference all depends on what you are going to do.

[Thomas Canfield]

Look at the Don Pencil buffing system with the 8" shaft or the 12" shaft if you do larger bowls and hollow forms. I have a shaft for both my Powermatic and Jet mini and use the bowl buffs on the mini for interior and larger buffing wheels on the Powermatic. I found the 3 on one shaft (which I also have) to be good only for pens and outside of small work since there is too much danger of making contact with the wrong wheel.

[Karl Card]

whoa nellie, why can't you use sandpaper by hand? Spinning wood is spinning wood. You may choose not to, but no reason to buy anything to do bowls. (you did not say deep hollowforms) The sanding units by sorby & the clones are nice to have (they rotate backward to the spin using your lathe to power them) I've been in this game for eons, and I have never needed powered equipment..but you may of course, if your budget calls for it, get all the tools..good luck:D


nobody says you cant use sandpaper. some of us do not care for using sandpaper by hand.. some wood turns nice so many different woods are so easy to get rings... i am looking for a system to sand, buff and finish easily and with fun involved...

[Jamie Straw]

Will do, Thomas. At the rate I'm going, it'll be awhile before I have a bowl ready to finish. Started turning a very green maple block last night. Spalted maple is rough-turned. Took a break tonight to go to a ballgame. Go Mariners!

[Ted Evans]

John, thanks for the info. I have enough sheet stock to probably last my lifetime; I do go through a lot of 5" h&l for my air sanders and now that I am trying to learn this spinning thing, I could use some of the higher grits. I'm going to give them a try, their prices seem very competitive.