I owe a formal apology to those who recommended sliders

[Joe Jensen]

I owe a formal apology to those who recommended sliders a couple of years ago when I was defending my Sawstop. I had no idea what a slider was like.

I really used my new Felder sliding saw today making a new bench.
I finally have the shop remodeled after changing from a SawStop to a Felder slider. I had to re-layout the shop, run new electricals, and redo half the dust collection system. I also built a new cantilever wood rack.
One of the last things I need is a new mobile bench/assembly table with storage underneath. In the new shop layout I need more work space. This rolling bench will be about 60" wide, 32" deep, and 34" tall. the design will use 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood, will have 21 drawers, two vises, and it will roll on Zambus leveling casters.

I chopped the three sheets into the 23 pieces I need and WOW, I the parts are perfectly square and all of each size part are exactly the same size. How square? I dialed in the crosscut fence with the 5 cut method on a 4 ft by 4ft sheet of plywood. The 4ft long piece from the 5th cut was had only a .003" difference in width from one end to the other. I think that means it would be error of .00075" on 4ft. I doubt I can repeatedly get the wood perfectly aligned to the fence every time, but if I really focus on setting each cut perfect, the cut is SQUARE. This is why I moved to a slider and I'm thrilled.

I still have space issues in the shop and I'm not sure I will keep the saw tight up against the wood rack like it is now. But wow, what performance.

[Bruce Page]

Joe, I haven't even seen a slider in the flesh but from what I have read they are on a completely different level from the American cabinet saw.

I would love to try one sometime.

Pics?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Joe, I'm really enjoying mine, the things that used to be so cumbersome and difficult are now so simple and accurate.

You couldn't convince me to go back to a cabinet saw........Rod.

[george wilson]

Wait till the humidity changes. Those tolerances will also change !!

[Frank Drew]

Easy fix for that... air-condition the shop!

[Mike Heidrick]

Pend this for 2 yrs from now - 4 axis CNC router mill and lathe.

[Joe Jensen]

Wait till the humidity changes. Those tolerances will also change !!

Ha, I live in AZ and AC the shop :cool:


Seriously, I think temp is what swings metal and not humidity. We will be entering the humid season, I'll report on any accuracy changes.

Also, the only way to get that level or accuracy is to spend a lot more time making sure everything is perfectly against the fence and clamped. I did this just to dial it in and won't be worrying about that accuracy level for normal work.

[Will Blick]

Joe, did you ever try the 5 cut test on the SS ?

I would be curious just how much bettter the slider performed?

[Ray DuBose]

So Since I'm looking at a slider as well, what are the issues with Humidity? Mine will be going in a garage non AC and I live in Memphis TN with pretty high Humidity.



Ha, I live in AZ and AC the shop :cool:


Seriously, I think temp is what swings metal and not humidity. We will be entering the humid season, I'll report on any accuracy changes.

Also, the only way to get that level or accuracy is to spend a lot more time making sure everything is perfectly against the fence and clamped. I did this just to dial it in and won't be worrying about that accuracy level for normal work.

[Greg Portland]

what are the issues with Humidity?I fail to see how ANY metal is going to change shape with humidity. It's not absorbing moisture so the only possible problem would be rust (and that would be with any table saw). Temperature swings will temporarily change the size of any solid due to expansion and contraction. With proper design of a sliding table the manufacturer should be able to minimize large tolerance variations.

[Joe Jensen]

I fail to see how ANY metal is going to change shape with humidity. It's not absorbing moisture so the only possible problem would be rust (and that would be with any table saw). Temperature swings will temporarily change the size of any solid due to expansion and contraction. With proper design of a sliding table the manufacturer should be able to minimize large tolerance variations.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/1.jpg

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, did you ever try the 5 cut test on the SS ?

I would be curious just how much bettter the slider performed?

The 5 cut method checks for squareness or crosscut accuracy. I never really used the Sawstop for crosscuts. I have a big RAS I use for crosscuts on hardwood. I used the sawstop to rip hardwood and cut sheet goods. My frustration with sheet goods on a cabinet saw was if the factory sheet didn't come with a perfect 90 on the end, it was really hard to get a perfect 90.

[Karl Brogger]

I had no idea what a slider was like.

Just wait until you use a proper panel saw. You'll wonder what fool would ever want to load anything onto a slider.

[James Carmichael]

Now that you're enjoying a slider, how bout sending me that sorry old SawStop???

What is the "humid season" in Phoenix? Double-digits:confused:

[Steve Rowe]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/1.jpg
+2
I am in Arkansas in a non-air conditioned shop. No issues other than bodily comfort.

[Andrew Joiner]

Just wait until you use a proper panel saw. You'll wonder what fool would ever want to load anything onto a slider.
By proper panel saw do you mean a vertical? I often wonder how a single operator gets a panel onto a slider without damage to edges, face veneer or his back.

I have a vertical panel saw with my panels stored on edge. I slide them thru with minimal lifting and no panel damage.

[Karl Brogger]

By proper panel saw do you mean a vertical?

aye. Striebig, Holz-Herr, etc. There's nothing sweeter than hacking up sheats three at a time. (Except maybe doing 5 at a time on a beam saw, that you loaded with a forklift.) Even loading from a flat stack isn't that bad, plus the footprint is pretty small.

I won't ever buy a slider just because of the pain of loading sheats.

(edit)- And the best way to load a slide saw is with a over head vacuum lift.

[Joe Jensen]

aye. Striebig, Holz-Herr, etc. There's nothing sweeter than hacking up sheats three at a time. (Except maybe doing 5 at a time on a beam saw, that you loaded with a forklift.) Even loading from a flat stack isn't that bad, plus the footprint is pretty small.

I won't ever buy a slider just because of the pain of loading sheats.

(edit)- And the best way to load a slide saw is with a over head vacuum lift.

Sadly I have no wall space and setting a vertical panel saw in a 3 car garage with a cabinet saw too would make for some tight work space

[Jim Becker]

I feel the same way, having moved from a very nice cabinet saw to a slider a few years ago. No looking back for me, either...

[scott vroom]

Just wait until you use a proper panel saw. You'll wonder what fool would ever want to load anything onto a slider.

Karl, what model panel saw are you using? Do you have any pics of your setup that you could post?

Thanks.

[Leigh Betsch]

Apology accepted!;)
I stopped recommending sliders unless the poster really seams sincere.
I find that most people are really not planning to spend the money to get into a good slider. They are actually just looking for support for buying a cabinet saw. It's just too hard to convince someone with cabinet saw budget to step up to a slider.

[Greg Peterson]

Wait till the humidity changes. Those tolerances will also change !!

How does humidity affect the slider?

[Mike Heidrick]

Raising the humidity and steaming a slider is the only true way to cook one - makes the reconstituted onions taste good too.

[johnny means]

Raising the humidity and steaming a slider is the only true way to cook one - makes the reconstituted onions taste good too.

mmmm, Whitecastle.

[Karl Brogger]

Karl, what model panel saw are you using? Do you have any pics of your setup that you could post?

Thanks.

At the moment, I'm not. I need to move out of my phone booth and get into a new shop. Currently at the top of the list for me is this:

http://www.csaw.com/striebig/compactplus.html
http://www.csaw.com/striebig/images/compactplusoo1.jpg

A shop I used to work for had two Striebigs and I fell in love with them. The compact plus is about $25k last time I looked. The used market for a while there made them quite affordable and I passed up on a couple just because of a lack of space. I'm now kicking myself at not buying and storing it until I had somewhere to put it.

[jason lambert]

I was a Felder last week playing eith the sliders if you have the room they are a no brainer. So much safer (sawstop exception) and handleing sheat goods is so much easer. They just take room.