Gasp! I'm becoming a...neander....

[Dan Friedrichs]

At HF today, I saw their no. 33 plane on sale for $8. I'd read on here that it wasn't half-bad (for $8). I've never held a hand plane before; what would I know?

Bought it, brought it home, spent about 30 seconds sharpening it on my super-high-tech-3-pieces-of-sandpaper-taped-to-MDF. Put it together. Doesn't work.

Pushed it against several boards. Nope. :confused:

Tried flipping the plane iron the other way around. Oh, yes! Now it works... :D

After about 20 minutes, I think I got the hang of it. I had some 13" wide rough black walnut that had been air dried for 9 years that I recently picked up for $2.50/bdft (*stealth gloat*), so I thought I'd try surfacing a board.

I think the results speak for themselves: The board on the left was surfaced with the hand plane, the one on the right with my DW735. Granted, the one on the left took a lot longer to do.

I've tried so hard to avoid this, but... hand planing that board was really fun! I can only imagine if I upgraded to a decent plane that was acually the right size and properly sharpened.


So I'll end with a question: Say I want to try and acquire a few select hand tools to employ whenever using them would be an easier/quicker solution than power tools. I'd like to try doing a better job planing, try some handcut dovetails, etc. Can anyone recommend a good beginner's reference book?

[Jeff Willard]

Try any of the titles from Taunton Press on the various subjects. Also, do yourself a favor-get, and read Krenov's trilogy. It may change you forever:eek:.

[Van Huskey]

First thing is ask over at the place where they know neander stuff! The are nice, don't generally bite and will be happy to spend your money just as quickly as the power tool folks.

My first good plane was a relavation but it never really got under my skin, I tend to use them only when a power tools doesn't work well. The one thing I do and have always used is scrapers, now that is one neader tool that I love.

[Victor Robinson]

...and will be happy to spend your money just as quickly as the power tool folks.

Ah, the thread that unites us all and reminds us of our common lineage...

[Bill ThompsonNM]

And see also "the handplane book" by Garrett Hack for planes in particular.

Scrapers are also fantastic.

For an accelerated rocket boost inti hand tool use:
Michael Dunbar books and classes. His classes will make you think you've
left the 21st century for a fun apprenticeship in the 19th century. And you'll go home with a chair to boot!

[Alan Schwabacher]

Peter Korn's "Woodworking Basics: Mastering the Essentials of Craftsmanship" is an excellent book that describes both hand and power tool approaches. I strongly recommend it.

[Rick Markham]

Hehe... Come to the Dark Side Dan!!! Seriously given a chance, there are many hand tools that are far more suitable for certain tasks than setting up a power tool for it. Sometimes, it's just good for the soul too ;)

I love all of my power tools as much as the next guy on here, but I also love all my handtools, especially my planes. Ya gotta remember, woodworking is a whole lot like life (at least for me) It isn't about the destination, it's all about the journey. There truly is something to be said for quiet bench time! See ya in the neander forum :D

+1 on Garret Hack's book

and David Charlesworth's Furniture Making Techniques A Guide to Hand tools and Methods

[Russell Sansom]

For design, inspiration, a sense of what it's all about, and possibly changing your life, I'd also recommend the Krenov Books.
But...there are many threads on the Neander forum that will be more specific, more current, and have better pictures than most books. Granted, you have to figure out what's noise and what's signal, but that's true of books as well.
You'll find half a dozen very prolific writers over there who can show you how to make important things like shooting boards. There are also dozens of threads which give advice about acquiring your first couple planes, which ones to buy, and how to fix them up.
Just to get you started, look at Derek Cohen's body of work.

[Cary Falk]

Noooooooooooo..........It's not too late. Go lay down till you feel better and can think straight. When you get up, read Mastering Wdwk Machines (Fine Woodworking Book) (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Wdwk-Machines-Fine-Woodworking/dp/0942391985/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275384414&sr=1-12) by Mark Duginske and Andrew Schultz. That should fix it. If not, then my deepest sympathies on you new found illness. May you RIP.:D

[Josh Bowman]

Wecome Dan to the slippery slope of handtools,
I really like power tools..... and never thought I needed anything else. I had a Stanley #5 from the 1970's and never could make it work. I tried an old #5 of a friend of mine and it hooked me! Be careful you could be on a slippery slope. Unless you're located in an area of the country with lots of old tools, EBay and a few other places may be best to buy from. There are new companies like Lee Valley and Lie Nelson that make wonderful tools at wonderful prices. I have been very happy with 1930 and earlier Stanleys.
This site will help you determine the age and he gives very candied opinions concerning the different tools as well as what to look for as in defects.http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
This site is good for the Stanley Bed Rock series. Basicly a souped up Stanley. The frog (blade holder) is machined to have a "bed rock" connection to the body of the plane. http://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm

This site will help you date old Stanleys and makes it easy. http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/

Dan I hope this helps. You can often bring out a handtool to tweak a machined joint....that's what I really like about them. A handplane can take a 5 thousands or less shaving and refine the joint. Also remember, a hand planed surface really doesn't need sanding!
Now having said all this, even though I've tried, handsawing a large timber, it's just not for me, my PM 66 does that better. Drilling lots of holes with an augar just wears me out, electric drills work better for me. But the woosh of a hand plane and the beautiful finish left behind on oak, cherry and maple is music to my ears. No need for dust masks or hearing protection.

[Greg Becker]

tools.com/brtypes.htm[/URL]


Now having said all this, even though I've tried, handsawing a large timber, it's just not for me

Your comment brought to mind a time when I built a clinic in the Central African bush. The local carpenters I hired wanted strong wood for the rafters so we bought 12" x 24" x 20' planks of bubinga (believe it or not, that was all that was available - back in the late 70s before the rain forrest was devastated - hence my "signature" motto of "Using only sustainable harvest wood")

We had about 6 guys who dug some saw pits (to easily get under the planks) and then using nothing but ancient cheap hand saws ripped the planks into 2x4s!!! It took about a month but they ripped enough to make a 36' x 20' roof.

I later went on do anti poaching work in the game park and chased poachers (from the Darfur region) who hunted elephants on horseback (How the got the elephants on the horses I do not know -- thanks Groucho!) using spears (pre AK-47 days) These were very very tough people.

[Rick Rutten]

Dan,

I am just a little further down the road than you on this course. If possible, use the local librabry. It has saved me lots of $$s for learning about tools. The route I seem to have followed was to buy old stuff for bench planes and newer for joinery planes. Mostly because the parts are a lot easier to come by. If you want to restore the older planes they can be had quite inexpensively (except bedrocks) or you can find others that have already done so and pay a little more.

For me it started with books to even begin to understand what was going on. That is just how my mind works. I started with planes, then chisels, then saws. +1 on Garret Hack's book, on line sources for Stanley plane info, and of course, here for help on where to look and determining if what you found is important. These folks have been very helpful to someone that is new to hand tools and woodworking in general.

Have Fun!
Rick

[David Keller NC]

So I'll end with a question: Say I want to try and acquire a few select hand tools to employ whenever using them would be an easier/quicker solution than power tools. I'd like to try doing a better job planing, try some handcut dovetails, etc. Can anyone recommend a good beginner's reference book?

Dan - The sine qua non reference for the techniques, tools and accoutrements of hand-tool woodworking are the books by Charles Hayward. Particularly "Carpentry for Beginners". Note that despite the title, this book's more about cabinetmaking than rough carpentry.

Short of having a tutor or taking classes (which are a lot more expensive than reading, of course), this is the best guide out there for 4-squaring rough boards by hand, cutting m&t joints, dovetails, general cabinet construction with hand tools, etc...

You can get a used reprint on www.alibris.com (http://www.alibris.com) for very little money. And it will be one of the best books you'll read on this topic.

[Zach England]

Take Lie-Nielsen planes monthly until the symptoms pass.

[john brenton]

Hey man, I recently posted an article specifically for anybody looking for tool reference (necessity, price, etc.). Check it out: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=141275

[Greg Becker]

Try any of the titles from Taunton Press on the various subjects. Also, do yourself a favor-get, and read Krenov's trilogy. It may change you forever:eek:.


I went to Amazon and looked under Krenov and there are a number of titles. Which ones constitute the "trilogy" you are referring to?

[Jeff Willard]

Noooooooooooo..........It's not too late. Go lay down till you feel better and can think straight. When you get up, read Mastering Wdwk Machines (Fine Woodworking Book) (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Wdwk-Machines-Fine-Woodworking/dp/0942391985/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275384414&sr=1-12) by Mark Duginske and Andrew Schultz. That should fix it. If not, then my deepest sympathies on you new found illness. May you RIP.:D

Hate to break it to ya', but Duginske has been known to pick up a handplane from time to time, as the need arises. :eek:

[Jeff Willard]

I went to Amazon and looked under Krenov and there are a number of titles. Which ones constitute the "trilogy" you are referring to?

A Cabinetmakers Notebook. 1976

The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking. 1977

The Impractical Cabinetmaker. 1979

In that order.

[Jeff Willard]

Take Lie-Nielsen planes monthly until the symptoms pass.

That's like drinking to cure a valium dependency:eek:. Talk about an enabler:D.

[James Owen]

....So I'll end with a question: Say I want to try and acquire a few select hand tools to employ whenever using them would be an easier/quicker solution than power tools. I'd like to try doing a better job planing, try some handcut dovetails, etc. Can anyone recommend a good beginner's reference book?


Dan,

Try Alex Bealer's Old Ways of Working Wood, Aldren Watson's Hand Tools Their Ways and Workings, Andy Rae's Choosing and Using Hand Tools, and/or Mike Dunbar's Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools, for loads of information on choosing, tuning up, and using all sorts of traditional hand tools.

[Rick Markham]

Most definitely Krenov's books, life changing is an understatement! Entirely new set of eyes to see through, as well as entirely new philosophy of woodworking and life in general!

If ya really really really want to get down and dirty with it...

Peter Nicholson's The Mechanic's Companion, or, the Elements and Practice of Carpentry, Joinery, Bricklaying, Masonry, Slating, Plastering, Painting, Smithing, and Turning. And an Explanation of the Terms used in Each Art: Also an Introduction to Practical Geometry Whew... That one just rolls right off the tongue :D

[Steve Dallas]

At HF today, I saw their no. 33 plane on sale for $8. I'd read on here that it wasn't half-bad (for $8). I've never held a hand plane before; what would I know?

Bought it, brought it home, spent about 30 seconds sharpening it on my super-high-tech-3-pieces-of-sandpaper-taped-to-MDF. Put it together. Doesn't work.

Pushed it against several boards. Nope. :confused:

Tried flipping the plane iron the other way around. Oh, yes! Now it works... :D

After about 20 minutes, I think I got the hang of it. I had some 13" wide rough black walnut that had been air dried for 9 years that I recently picked up for $2.50/bdft (*stealth gloat*), so I thought I'd try surfacing a board.

I think the results speak for themselves: The board on the left was surfaced with the hand plane, the one on the right with my DW735. Granted, the one on the left took a lot longer to do.

I've tried so hard to avoid this, but... hand planing that board was really fun! I can only imagine if I upgraded to a decent plane that was acually the right size and properly sharpened.


So I'll end with a question: Say I want to try and acquire a few select hand tools to employ whenever using them would be an easier/quicker solution than power tools. I'd like to try doing a better job planing, try some handcut dovetails, etc. Can anyone recommend a good beginner's reference book?

The Krenov books make great reading, but let me disabuse you of the notion that he was a hand tool only woodworker, or what we might now call a "neanderthal." He was far from it. He used hand tools/planes when they made sense and power equipment when it made sense. Most of his famous "cabinet-on-stand" projects (tour de forces with regard to stock/grain selection) were joined with dowels. He did not like the visual interruption of carcase dovetails in most instances. In fact, in one of the three trilogies mentioned (I forget for a moment which one) he will tell you more about dowel joinery than perhaps you would ever care to know. I see nothing wrong with it, mainly because he is right - exposed carcase dovetails on some of his more famous works would most definitely have been a little jarring. I think he was too pragmatic to have cut secret mitred dovetails, but I am not his biographer - he may have done so a time or two but certainly with nothing akin to regularity.

For more information see an article from the old black and white days of Fine Woodworking (when people the stature of Krenov contributed articles) entitled: Doweling, the whole secret is absolute accuracy. This piece is actually mostly an excerpt from the book A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, so I've identified the source I referred to in my first paragraph.

Note - do not read this article if you don't want to see Krenov doweling one of his masterworks with a 3/8" hand held drill and a shop made jig. For process oriented craftsmen (as opposed to results oriented craftsmen) and those who think dovetails are always the 'right' joint this could be a big let down.

[Greg Becker]

A Cabinetmakers Notebook. 1976

The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking. 1977

The Impractical Cabinetmaker. 1979

In that order.

Thanks. I just ordered a used hard cover copy of the first one.